Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[gcsmith]

There is a bug going on with the beta not showing up on your launcher - the solution is to simply reset your password on bnet and re-log - just got beta on my launcher this way (for some weird reason I never get blizzard emails lol).

You can also check your battle.net account online, if it's there, you'll have beta.

[unbrained]

And as always No beta invite for me.....

[loras]

Really, is there a proper middle ground here? If Blizz were to talk about a gulf stream or two coming from certain areas, it sort of forces a bit of a closure of their map. If that stream is coming from Pandaria for instance, that narrows down the amount of space between Pandaria & the Dragon Isles. If we get some sort of a hint that certain fronts are traveling to Kalimdor while going through the Eastern Kingdoms first, that narrows the range that a future "Other Side of Azeroth" expansion could have without causing a climate retcon, which would almost certainly be brought up at a future Q&A.

IMO, it's simpler to just give the proper pieces of lore for the story being told so long as they don't adversely affect other bits of lore already being told.

Well yes, i do think there is a proper middle ground between random varied island with no explanation and a complete climatological model (which you accurately identify as potentially limiting future options).

I would go for just mentioning warm water flowing to the isles, making it make sense "locally"; one side is cold because the island splits the stream of warm water.
You can let it in the dark where that stream comes from; maybe there is an ancient fire-water battlegrlund nearby, maybe N'zoth's disembodied asshole's farts warm up the water, maybe the pandarian gulfstream warms it up.
In-universe it's likely only neptulon might know, so you can just keep it to local observations which might imply any number of things.
But anything is better than leaving such an oddity unexplained, it's like with the black humans and elves; no foul in wanting the option, but maybe mention where they might suddenly come from? Descendants of Kul Tiran sailors that took home some exotic lovers? Blood elves themselves are mutants, perhaps it's an adaptation to being away from the sunwell too long, or from being near it too long?

Etcetera; Those things that stand out need explanations, they needn't be overcomplex or outstanding, but leaving such things unexplained is like if Anduin suddenly rode around on a flying rat from the in-game store and people are like "Yo Anduin what's that?" and he's like "A smoothie.".

[CalamityHeart]

I feel like hyperfocusing on stuff like climate is one of those things that people do to willfully ruin the setting for themselves when they've decided they hate it or want to hate it, especially when they prove themselves more than capable of rationalizing their own solutions to their own petty trifles in their own heads in the same breath they're critiquing the setting for not doing it for them where it's necessary, which is allegedly always. I agree with the notion that fictional fantasy settings need to explain themselves when they branch off from our understanding of the real, where it's relevant to the story being told. I don't think it's necessary or well-advised for the fantasy setting to explain itself any more than it must.

[Makabreska]

Really, is there a proper middle ground here? If Blizz were to talk about a gulf stream or two coming from certain areas, it sort of forces a bit of a closure of their map. If that stream is coming from Pandaria for instance, that narrows down the amount of space between Pandaria & the Dragon Isles. If we get some sort of a hint that certain fronts are traveling to Kalimdor while going through the Eastern Kingdoms first, that narrows the range that a future "Other Side of Azeroth" expansion could have without causing a climate retcon, which would almost certainly be brought up at a future Q&A.

IMO, it's simpler to just give the proper pieces of lore for the story being told so long as they don't adversely affect other bits of lore already being told.

Fk sake! I only stated my surprise that DI is at the same latitude as Northrend. I didn't mean to start all of this!

[loras]

I feel like hyperfocusing on stuff like climate is one of those things that people do to willfully ruin the setting for themselves when they've decided they hate it or want to hate it, especially when they prove themselves more than capable of rationalizing their own solutions to their own petty trifles in their own heads in the same breath they're critiquing the setting for not doing it for them where it's necessary, which is allegedly always. I agree with the notion that fictional fantasy settings need to explain themselves when they branch off from our understanding of the real, where it's relevant to the story being told. I don't think it's necessary or well-advised for the fantasy setting to explain itself any more than it must.

Not all of us fail to notice lightning during clear skies, so to speak. Unexpected elephants in a room are also a thing you might expect people to "hyperfocus" on if there is no proper explanation.

It's not exactly a trivial shortcoming in a roleplaying game.
I criticised their poor handling of such environmental cohesion during Cataclysm as well, and indeed it proved to be as annoying as expected in everything. And that was with a plausible magic explanation in the form of the breached elemental planes.

People rarely verbalise it well, but the complaint that it does not feel like a world is not all too uncommon, it might mean that a bit more attention has to be paid to keeping matters consistent, rather than ending up as that joke:

[Schwert]

There is a problem atm. Shadow has literally too many buttons from the talents. I think some trimming would be required.

Then play a build that doesn't take all those buttons?
That's the joy of having a talent tree.

[CalamityHeart]

Not all of us fail to notice lightning during clear skies, so to speak.

Except the skies aren't clear. The storm is there, but an explanation is being demanded of the clouds forming in the manner that they do, when the story would really rather be focusing on the storm and the heroes' struggles to endure it. So to speak.

It was more understandable back in Cataclysm, when the world actually was in the midst of a global apocalypse that had a very present, very visible effect on Azeroth during the whole elemental planes breaching reality sort of thing. But even then, there comes a point where scrutinizing the realism of a volcano sprouting in the middle of Ashenvale gets a bit much. And WoW's story has not had such a heavy front-and-center focus on changes to the environment itself since then.

I'm not saying these aren't things that WoW could theoretically be doing 'better', I just think that there is such a thing as giving too many shits. And derisively comparing the unexplained geology, climate, and ocean/weather patterns of an island rife with magic that hasn't seen the rest of the world in ten thousand years, to a silly gag in a different instance of children's media, is probably a few shits too many. In my opinion, anyway.

[Makorus]

It's one step before asking "Where do people go to shit"

[Sondrelk]

It's one step before asking "Where do people go to shit"

I would go one further. Do the denizens of the Shadowlands shit? And if not, where has our characters done their business all this time?

But yes, kinda pointless argument regardless. Especially when much if it could be handwaved by simply mentioning seasons and magic exists.

[Lady Atia]

Btw, they added the sources for the different tier colours with this build - blue is the hc tint *yay*

[Nymrohd]

But even then, there comes a point where scrutinizing the realism of a volcano sprouting in the middle of Ashenvale gets a bit much. And WoW's story has not had such a heavy front-and-center focus on changes to the environment itself since then.

See, this is exactly the example I was looking for. What was the point of that volcano? Seriously, why did they add it? They needed a few minutes more of questing time and added a jarring feature that makes no sense in a landscape that will probably not change for a decade or more. So yeah, I have an issue with that. Because it just feels lazy, it's a dev that sees the world as a sandbox for them to prop their work on instead of as the product itself. The world is not just packaging to be discarded.
Yes it's a game but it's also a roleplaying game and some immersion works. It is not nitpicky to find zone transitions jarring. It's not nitpicky to not understand why military assets from both factions are not used or even mentioned when they are in total war. It's not weird to wonder why the creation site for the realms of death is so focused on creating life. If it fails to make sense it's not nitpicking, it's them doing a poor job. They CAN have jarring transitions if they naturally explain it like they do with Sholazar.

[huth]

See, this is exactly the example I was looking for. What was the point of that volcano? Seriously, why did they add it? They needed a few minutes more of questing time and added a jarring feature that makes no sense in a landscape that will probably not change for a decade or more. So yeah, I have an issue with that. Because it just feels lazy, it's a dev that sees the world as a sandbox for them to prop their work on instead of as the product itself. The world is not just packaging to be discarded.
Yes it's a game but it's also a roleplaying game and some immersion works. It is not nitpicky to find zone transitions jarring. It's not nitpicky to not understand why military assets from both factions are not used or even mentioned when they are in total war. It's not weird to wonder why the creation site for the realms of death is so focused on creating life. If it fails to make sense it's not nitpicking, it's them doing a poor job. They CAN have jarring transitions if they naturally explain it like they do with Sholazar.

You mean the one that was made by fire elementals that are sitting right on top of it? Maybe pick another example. And do keep in mind the world is actually much bigger than we see with places that seem a few hundred yards apart actually being dozens or hundreds of miles away from one another. There certainly are climate issues with it, especially in the southern parts, but they aren't as big as you make them out.

[Kiria]

And as always No beta invite for me.....

Ditto bub, I give up I spend an absolute fortune on WoW but im never good enough for their Beta's xD

[Nymrohd]

Nice druid changes to the spec trees. The description definitely nails the fantasy of feral. Imo the biggest issue though is the class tree. Hope they have something for that as well.

[Makabreska]

It's happening, druid bois!

https://www.wowhead.com/news/blizzar...ht-beta-328663

https://www.wowhead.com/news/blizzar...ht-beta-328662

[Nymrohd]

Can't say I get a clear idea of what they are planning for Resto like I could with feral. Guess we'll wait for next week to actually see how it looks.

[draugril]

Though I would love it if they would hire a few people/designate a few people who maintain things like the timeline, lore consistency and world-logic.

They literally have an entire staff of historians for this. But it doesn’t matter if either: (a) they don’t do their job properly, or (b) the writers don’t listen regardless.

[Nymrohd]

They literally have an entire staff of historians for this. But it doesn’t matter if either: (a) they don’t do their job properly, or (b) the writers don’t listen regardless.

Are you sure? I think the Archive department is in charge of Company records, not game lore. I think they probably have a point person at best.

[AngerFork]

Random question which I fully disclose may be slight bitterness coming from my own lack of a beta key: does Blizz's beta invite setup give an unfair advantage for certain players to be Evokers during the first tier of raiding? This is presuming that we don't have Evokers in the 10.0 pre-patch PTR (which is an unknown at this point).

As an example, let's say two people want to raid as Evokers in the same guild. Person A just got beta access yesterday while Person B does not wind up getting beta access at any point. If we go with the rumored 10/25 10.0 pre-patch date, Person A has had 7 1/2 weeks of extra access to Evokers that Person B hasn't. Extrapolating that out to the rumored release date, Person A would have had 11 1/2 weeks with the Evoker while Person B had 4. While a lot will no doubt be made up for by gearing once DF is out (as well as time off of work on first release), that's a major experience difference to make up for by the time the first week of raiding comes out.

Given all that has to be looked at in a beta test, it may well be worth that temporary evil to ensure Blizz can control the size of their testing pool & get eyes where they are needed. However, when you have a new class coming into the game alongside a randomized invite pool as well as a raiding player base that tends to narrowly focus people into how much they are helping the team right now, it seems feasible to me that Blizz is unintentionally giving some players an advantage towards first tier Evoker raiding.