1. #66621
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    I think there was one raid tier were Mistweaver was mandatory and that solely due to the overtuning of Essence Font. Otherwise, Mistweaver is by far the most replaceable healing spec (next to Holy Priest) in raids. In Mythic+ they are neither the sought after healer.
    You should keep your info updated. The top two guilds in Sepulcher used two holy priests. MW was also used. The healer neither of the top two guilds used was Resto shaman. Also if you just take 30 seconds to look at the healer leaderboards for mythic+ it is mostly holy priests at the top. Your post is like a time capsule from Sanctum days a year ago that somehow just got slowly posted now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    But if they read the terrain like I do instead of going off of personal desires then they'd understand and wouldn't get their jimmies rustled. Again, I have no intention of maining a tinker, I just know with 100% certainty that they're wow's next playable class. It's so God damn obvious all things considered.

    If that triggers people then oh well.

  2. #66622
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unfunnymeme View Post
    Personally, I think they should make Nozdormu resist whatever was going to make him turn to Murozand. Show that fate isn't something set in stone that can never be altered, but an ever shifting flow of causality dependent on the actions of those it concerns.
    I just really hate the idea of prophetic visions always coming true. It means that there isn't any actual free will, if everything you do still leads to the same outcome.

    When the time comes to re-empower the aspects, have Nozdormu step down and make Chromie or someone else aspect. This relinquishment of power is the one thing he probably never foresaw himself trying, and would lead to an altered end, one that he hasn't seen and cannot see going forward.
    I was fine with you in the first half. I'm fine with the aspects being reempowered, no idea why people dislike it. Don't want Nozdormu stepping down though.
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  3. #66623
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    I was fine with you in the first half. I'm fine with the aspects being reempowered, no idea why people dislike it. Don't want Nozdormu stepping down though.
    That's just one possibility. They could handle it however, I just really hate the idea of fate being set in stone.

  4. #66624
    Quote Originally Posted by unfunnymeme View Post
    Personally, I think they should make Nozdormu resist whatever was going to make him turn to Murozand. Show that fate isn't something set in stone that can never be altered, but an ever shifting flow of causality dependent on the actions of those it concerns.
    I just really hate the idea of prophetic visions always coming true. It means that there isn't any actual free will, if everything you do still leads to the same outcome.

    When the time comes to re-empower the aspects, have Nozdormu step down and make Chromie or someone else aspect. This relinquishment of power is the one thing he probably never foresaw himself trying, and would lead to an altered end, one that he hasn't seen and cannot see going forward.
    I do not see Chromie as the leader of a flight, she seems to want to be free of that kind of responsibilities.

    Focusing in Nozdormu... Do not know, I find really interesting to explore how he deals with his known fate, and we kind of know that he HAS to become Murozond, right? What other fate would he have, though? Retiring? Being a Cairne and do nothing in future expansions? I think that he could be an amazing villain, I just hope that they keep him alive and develop him properly.
    Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive.

  5. #66625
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkarath View Post
    I do not see Chromie as the leader of a flight, she seems to want to be free of that kind of responsibilities.

    Focusing in Nozdormu... Do not know, I find really interesting to explore how he deals with his known fate, and we kind of know that he HAS to become Murozond, right? What other fate would he have, though? Retiring? Being a Cairne and do nothing in future expansions? I think that he could be an amazing villain, I just hope that they keep him alive and develop him properly.
    Chromie becoming an Aspect is something that's been pushed by fans for a long time despite it not making much sense. She's a good character, but not a leader, and Nozdormu already has an established heir in Anachronos (and a bait-and-switch doesn't really make sense when the entire flight has time magic and should be aware of that much). It's just people pushing a well-known character over the sensible one that we don't see much.

    As for Nozdormu escaping his fate... I think there's a good chance of that now given that the new Uldaman boss's dialogue suggests that Murozond's origin revolves around us completely failing our mission and him being the only Aspect. Also, though, the original lore for Murozond is that he was corrupted when he tried to prevent his own destined death. If that isn't changed then he might have to die to avoid becoming Murozond- maybe a heroic sacrifice that he refused to make in other timelines?

  6. #66626
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    And given the speech he gave, Super Murozond (or Superzond, if you will) is likely to happen.
    Nah, they will summon 5 Zonds and combine them into a Megazond.

  7. #66627
    Quote Originally Posted by Eldryth View Post
    As for Nozdormu escaping his fate... I think there's a good chance of that now given that the new Uldaman boss's dialogue suggests that Murozond's origin revolves around us completely failing our mission and him being the only Aspect. Also, though, the original lore for Murozond is that he was corrupted when he tried to prevent his own destined death. If that isn't changed then he might have to die to avoid becoming Murozond- maybe a heroic sacrifice that he refused to make in other timelines?
    An heroic sacrifice would be a fitting end for him, but ONLY if he gets a lot of development in DF. If not, his death will not matter to most players, as we have barely interacted with him in almost 20 years. We barely know him.

    Although the idea of him becoming an overpowered aspect is interesting, could still become a good villain and could push the rest of the dragons to interesting and unpredictable paths.
    Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive.

  8. #66628
    Bloodsail Admiral Catastrophy349's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkarath View Post
    An heroic sacrifice would be a fitting end for him, but ONLY if he gets a lot of development in DF. If not, his death will not matter to most players, as we have barely interacted with him in almost 20 years. We barely know him.

    Although the idea of him becoming an overpowered aspect is interesting, could still become a good villain and could push the rest of the dragons to interesting and unpredictable paths.
    I’m excited for Dragonflight. I love WoW lore; however, SL showing us death is so off putting for anyone dying. We can’t be sad if he dies because we can go visit him in the Shadowlands! Or, if we can’t, we know he’s ok.

  9. #66629
    Quote Originally Posted by Catastrophy349 View Post
    I’m excited for Dragonflight. I love WoW lore; however, SL showing us death is so off putting for anyone dying. We can’t be sad if he dies because we can go visit him in the Shadowlands! Or, if we can’t, we know he’s ok.
    Yes, they definitively need to deal with the Shadowlands in some way and soon, because as long as it exists every death is meaningless.

    The damage done to the game by the story and narrative of SL is crazy.

    DF is Danuser's last chance of making something decent with his job IMO. If he fails I hope that Blizzard immediately releases him from his duties.
    Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive.

  10. #66630
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkarath View Post
    Yes, they definitively need to deal with the Shadowlands in some way and soon, because as long as it exists every death is meaningless.

    The damage done to the game by the story and narrative of SL is crazy.

    DF is Danuser's last chance of making something decent with his job IMO. If he fails I hope that Blizzard immediately releases him from his duties.
    I hate seeing posts like this, because ultimately I think that Shadowlands is terrible, but it has to be said that it doesn't make death meaningless.
    An afterlife has ALWAYS been around in WoW. It's also always been something people can interact with.

    That we get some very basic insight into core realms does not change that. Death and the Shadowlands does not change how resurrection works in most cases. It doesn't change how people interact with spirits and talking with them in most cases.

    There has always been an afterlife in WoW. This is explicit and always has been. That we see part of it does not invalidate death.

    If the rift between ICC and Shadowlands has been repaired, and travel is now extremely difficult, it's just back to what has always existed in WoW lore.

  11. #66631
    The Insane Arafal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Nah, they will summon 5 Zonds and combine them into a Megazond.
    "This isn't even my final form!"



  12. #66632
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferlion View Post
    I hate seeing posts like this, because ultimately I think that Shadowlands is terrible, but it has to be said that it doesn't make death meaningless.
    An afterlife has ALWAYS been around in WoW. It's also always been something people can interact with.

    That we get some very basic insight into core realms does not change that. Death and the Shadowlands does not change how resurrection works in most cases. It doesn't change how people interact with spirits and talking with them in most cases.

    There has always been an afterlife in WoW. This is explicit and always has been. That we see part of it does not invalidate death.

    If the rift between ICC and Shadowlands has been repaired, and travel is now extremely difficult, it's just back to what has always existed in WoW lore.

    IMO, the issue with shadowlands is that it doesnt really work from a gameplay prospective.

    It is the afterlife. How can things die there? How can I go to the afterlife and kill things left and right and then they cease to be? In that sense shadowlands is just basically another plane of existence that comes after death and it's not true afterlife, if this makes sense.

    It's just weird. Plus, did we all forget where they said that each character in shadowlands is comprised of ALL their AU/MU characters? how stupid is that. For example, garrosh is supposed to be all versions of garrosh combined into one in the afterlife, and yet it's obviously the MU garrosh.

    Terrible story writing.

  13. #66633
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferlion View Post
    I hate seeing posts like this, because ultimately I think that Shadowlands is terrible, but it has to be said that it doesn't make death meaningless.
    An afterlife has ALWAYS been around in WoW. It's also always been something people can interact with.

    That we get some very basic insight into core realms does not change that. Death and the Shadowlands does not change how resurrection works in most cases. It doesn't change how people interact with spirits and talking with them in most cases.

    There has always been an afterlife in WoW. This is explicit and always has been. That we see part of it does not invalidate death.

    If the rift between ICC and Shadowlands has been repaired, and travel is now extremely difficult, it's just back to what has always existed in WoW lore.
    There is an afterlive in probably every fantasy universe that usually is not meddled too much with because potentially you can do enormous damage to your lore. Shadowlands is a perfect example of that.

    Basic insight into core realms? If someone close to us die we just have to talk to our pal Pelagos and ask him to point us in which direction we have to go to take a nice cup of tea with our friend who died yesterday.

    Travel to the Shadowlands is, according to the last time that Danuser spoke about it, extremely easy, we just have to cross a portal. I think that he even mentioned as an example a baker visiting his lost ones.

    Death is meaningless in WoW until Shadowlands is properly dealt with. Again, we can just go there, grab our pal, and bring him back to the realms of life. Is just that easy. The possibility is there, and if Pelagos do not allow it we only have to use brute force to achieve our objective. One would have expected more mistery or more difficulties, but no, just with brute force, we can bring anyone, probably with his body an all, not an ethereal shape of what he / she was.

    Its pathetic.
    Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive.

  14. #66634
    The Insane Arafal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferlion View Post
    If the rift between ICC and Shadowlands has been repaired, and travel is now extremely difficult,
    This isn't true, it never even was with how travel has been established.
    We just didn't know it was a place we can get to in the first place.

    The Brokers, Necros, Kyrians, etc. travel between the Veil without a single problem and we have established portal links directly to Oribos in our capitals.

    That we get some very basic insight into core realms does not change that
    Very basic insight.
    You call learning everything there is to know about them, joining them and climbing their ranks to become one of the highest ranking members of their covenants "very basic insight"?

    Hell, we are even buddy-buddy with the Arbiter.
    We HELPED him become the Arbiter in the first place.
    Last edited by Arafal; 2022-08-28 at 07:06 AM.



  15. #66635
    Legendary! Makabreska's Avatar
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    Ion kinda confirming we will have more classes added in the future:

    "This is something we talk about a lot. Evoker not having a tank spec, I think, is more a reflection on the fantasy of what being a draconic being is and how you would expect it to act. A breath weapon and wings and mobility and all that felt like it lent itself more to a ranged-based class, a caster. And caster abilities don’t always work well with tanking, so we didn’t go in that direction with that fantasy. Future classes may have tank specs."
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  16. #66636
    Quote Originally Posted by Therougetitan View Post
    You should keep your info updated. The top two guilds in Sepulcher used two holy priests. MW was also used. The healer neither of the top two guilds used was Resto shaman. Also if you just take 30 seconds to look at the healer leaderboards for mythic+ it is mostly holy priests at the top. Your post is like a time capsule from Sanctum days a year ago that somehow just got slowly posted now.
    Your statement makes not much sense as your and my time frames are entirely different. You look at the recent tier when I am speaking of a 10 year span since Monks have been introduced. Yes, there were / are a few tiers were Monks and even Holy Priests are "top tier", but again, that's not the point I made. Who cares about Sepulcher parsings in 4-5 months? Nobody. That's why they really don't matter here. It doesn't matter though, let's just pretend Monks don't exist and nobody would care anyway.
    Last edited by Nyel; 2022-08-28 at 09:14 AM.
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  17. #66637
    Legendary! Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    Your statement makes not much sense as your and my time frames are entirely different. You look at the recent tier when I am speaking of a 10 year span since Monks have been introduced. Yes, there were / are a few tiers were Monks and even Holy Priests are "top tier", but again, that's not the point I made. Who cares about Sepulcher parsings in 4-5 months? Nobody. That's why they really don't matter here. It doesn't matter though, let's just pretend Monks don't exist and nobody would care anyway.
    Uhhhhh, what is it even this logic? MW/HolyP do not matter now, because they didn't matter enough in the past, while being actually good in CURRENT content? You judge entire spec performance with how good and relevant they were in the past, not the present? Again, what is this logic? I remind you this is a conversation, which spec should get CR, based on it's current/DF utility.
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2022-08-28 at 09:21 AM.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  18. #66638
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Uhhhhh, what is it even this logic? MW/HolyP do not matter now, because they didn't matter enough in the past, while being actually good in CURRENT content? You judge entire spec performance with how good and relevant they were in the past, not the present? Again, what is this logic?
    This logic is the same you applied in your statement above that Ion is confirming future classes (when future classes were never in doubt anyway).

    On a serious note: there is a reason why Monks are by far the least played class. What do you think is it? That players just don't like how they play? Or that they, for the most time since their introduction, were a class that was neither mandatory nor generally strong enough to attract enough players to be at least as popular as the second least popular class? If you'd remove Monks from the game right now, nobody would complain, because the general audience doesn't even recognize the class. Bold statement, I know.
    Last edited by Nyel; 2022-08-28 at 09:24 AM.
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  19. #66639
    Legendary! Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    This logic is the same you applied in your statement above that Ion is confirming future classes.
    The one where the lead dev says future classes may have tank specs, low key confirming new classes in the future? Eh, no. You are extremely confused right now and your logic is totally backwards. Address please why you judge spec based on it's past performance, while disregarding the present.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  20. #66640
    Herald of the Titans Lady Atia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    This logic is the same you applied in your statement above that Ion is confirming future classes (when future classes were never in doubt anyway).

    On a serious note: there is a reason why Monks are by far the least played class. What do you think is it? That players just don't like how they play? Or that they, for the most time since their introduction, were a class that was neither mandatory nor generally strong enough to attract enough players to be at least as popular as the second least popular class? If you'd remove Monks from the game right now, nobody would complain, because the general audience doesn't even recognize the class. Bold statement, I know.
    You take that back! Monk got by far the best looking tier set with Sepulcher. And I would miss my little alt

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