1. #66641
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    This logic is the same you applied in your statement above that Ion is confirming future classes (when future classes were never in doubt anyway).

    On a serious note: there is a reason why Monks are by far the least played class. What do you think is it? That players just don't like how they play? Or that they, for the most time since their introduction, were a class that was neither mandatory nor generally strong enough to attract enough players to be at least as popular as the second least popular class? If you'd remove Monks from the game right now, nobody would complain, because the general audience doesn't even recognize the class. Bold statement, I know.
    I would absolutely say it's because most people just don't like the theme and style of the class.
    Being a karate guy just doesn't appeal to most people. The class is also entirely shrouded in Pandaren aesthetic and culture. Maybe if they made it a little more racially neutral, it'd attract more people.

  2. #66642
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    You take that back! Monk got by far the best looking tier set with Sepulcher. And I would miss my little alt
    Oh I love Monks since the day they were introduced, I've always loved Mistweaver and the "mist" aesthetic. Unfortunately the class had so many down phases and so little love put into it that it's just as unpopular as it was back during MoP when it got introduced to the game. Monk is most likely my diehard favorite class, it just makes me sad to see it's waning.

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    Quote Originally Posted by unfunnymeme View Post
    I would absolutely say it's because most people just don't like the theme and style of the class.
    Being a karate guy just doesn't appeal to most people. The class is also entirely shrouded in Pandaren aesthetic and culture. Maybe if they made it a little more racially neutral, it'd attract more people.
    Or just make it... special? Don't know. 10 years and Blizzard has failed to deliver anything in that regard. Monk will always be seen as a step child class that really never was meant to be part of the game if MoP did not happen.
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  3. #66643
    Herald of the Titans Lady Atia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unfunnymeme View Post
    I would absolutely say it's because most people just don't like the theme and style of the class.
    Being a karate guy just doesn't appeal to most people. The class is also entirely shrouded in Pandaren aesthetic and culture. Maybe if they made it a little more racially neutral, it'd attract more people.
    Monk aren't Pandaren themed only - you can easily blend them into Draenei, Humans, Orcs (to represent blademasters), Dwarfes (Brewmasters!) and Forsaken.

  4. #66644
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkarath View Post
    There is an afterlive in probably every fantasy universe that usually is not meddled too much with because potentially you can do enormous damage to your lore. Shadowlands is a perfect example of that.

    Basic insight into core realms? If someone close to us die we just have to talk to our pal Pelagos and ask him to point us in which direction we have to go to take a nice cup of tea with our friend who died yesterday.

    Travel to the Shadowlands is, according to the last time that Danuser spoke about it, extremely easy, we just have to cross a portal. I think that he even mentioned as an example a baker visiting his lost ones.

    Death is meaningless in WoW until Shadowlands is properly dealt with. Again, we can just go there, grab our pal, and bring him back to the realms of life. Is just that easy. The possibility is there, and if Pelagos do not allow it we only have to use brute force to achieve our objective. One would have expected more mistery or more difficulties, but no, just with brute force, we can bring anyone, probably with his body an all, not an ethereal shape of what he / she was.

    Its pathetic.
    "And bring him back to the Realms of Life"

    The Dark Beyond is not the Plane of Life. Are we going to ignore the established lore in SL now? Is this gonna be a common thing? Cause I'll fact check y'all hard.

  5. #66645
    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmicpreds View Post
    "And bring him back to the Realms of Life"

    The Dark Beyond is not the Plane of Life. Are we going to ignore the established lore in SL now? Is this gonna be a common thing? Cause I'll fact check y'all hard.
    Oh c'mon, you get what I mean. To Azeroth, bring him back to Azeroth, so he can live again.
    Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive.

  6. #66646
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    You take that back! Monk got by far the best looking tier set with Sepulcher. And I would miss my little alt
    If only they would explore those distinctions in game I think I would like the class better. But for the most part the only non-Panderan monks in the game were the ones in SM. Everyone else is basically an adherent to Panderan teachings.

  7. #66647
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkarath View Post
    Oh c'mon, you get what I mean. To Azeroth, bring him back to Azeroth, so he can live again.
    You didn't pay a whole lot of attention in Shadowlands, did you? It's not that easy. Recently dead souls can't really do much, even if you somehow get them to the mortal plane.

    And that it is easy for the living to go to the Shadowlands doesn't automatically mean the dead can just as easily leave.

  8. #66648
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkarath View Post
    Oh c'mon, you get what I mean. To Azeroth, bring him back to Azeroth, so he can live again.
    Say Reality lmaoo

    My lore nerd mind gets goofy otherwise lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    You didn't pay a whole lot of attention in Shadowlands, did you? It's not that easy. Recently dead souls can't really do much, even if you somehow get them to the mortal plane.

    And that it is easy for the living to go to the Shadowlands doesn't automatically mean the dead can just as easily leave.
    That too. You're also bound to that realm no?

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    There's a reason why the Ysera stuff requires "great sacrifice"

  9. #66649
    The Insane Arafal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    And that it is easy for the living to go to the Shadowlands doesn't automatically mean the dead can just as easily leave.
    There is not a single established piece of lore, that in any way shape or form states that souls have any limitation as to whether or not they can leave if they have the telemantic means to it.
    In fact, the whole expansion establishes the exact opposite.

    Literally every covenant has a private means of leaving and entering and traversing the Shadowlands.
    Drakas Afterlive short has her spy on a legion world.
    Brokers just go on casual treasure hunting trips whenever they feel like it.
    We have ourselves opened portals to our very own capitals the very minute we entered Oribos.

    When someone dies, there is absolutely nothing stopping us or anyone else to just ask Pelagos for directions and then drag them out of there.
    There is nothing stopping a soul from just saving up a bunch of anima and paying their nearest Broker to port them back to their planet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmicpreds View Post
    That too. You're also bound to that realm no?

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    There's a reason why the Ysera stuff requires "great sacrifice"
    You are not.
    Ysera is not an example either.

    Ysera is the only soul that had any sort of bond to their designated realm, a bond only created because her pod was damaged and the Winter Queen had to push the emergency button.
    Last edited by Arafal; 2022-08-28 at 04:11 PM.



  10. #66650
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    Oh I love Monks since the day they were introduced, I've always loved Mistweaver and the "mist" aesthetic. Unfortunately the class had so many down phases and so little love put into it that it's just as unpopular as it was back during MoP when it got introduced to the game. Monk is most likely my diehard favorite class, it just makes me sad to see it's waning.

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    Or just make it... special? Don't know. 10 years and Blizzard has failed to deliver anything in that regard. Monk will always be seen as a step child class that really never was meant to be part of the game if MoP did not happen.
    What statistics are you referring to? WW Monks are currently in the middle of total normal/heroic/mythic parses for CN (the only raid that has been up twice so far). WW and BM are among the most popular m+ specs (looking at parse numbers) and the subcreation historical graph shows that WW and BM monks are among the best consistent m+ classes in the game for 6 years running.

    Unless you are specifically talking about MW only, then yeah, it's the worst healing spec no doubt Monks kind of have the opposite problem of paladin, whose DPS spec is usually bad but whose healing spec is nearly always considered part of the core raiding healer trinity because aura mastery is so powerful.

  11. #66651
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashana Darkmoon View Post
    What statistics are you referring to? WW Monks are currently in the middle of total normal/heroic/mythic parses for CN (the only raid that has been up twice so far). WW and BM are among the most popular m+ specs (looking at parse numbers) and the subcreation historical graph shows that WW and BM monks are among the best consistent m+ classes in the game for 6 years running.

    Unless you are specifically talking about MW only, then yeah, it's the worst healing spec no doubt Monks kind of have the opposite problem of paladin, whose DPS spec is usually bad but whose healing spec is nearly always considered part of the core raiding healer trinity because aura mastery is so powerful.
    Yeah, mostly talking through the Mistweaver lense as that's my main Monk spec and the one I'm playing 95% of the time in any type of content.
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  12. #66652
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    There is not a single established piece of lore, that in any way shape or form states that souls have any limitation as to whether or not they can leave if they have the telemantic means to it.
    In fact, the whole expansion establishes the exact opposite.

    Literally every covenant has a private means of leaving and entering and traversing the Shadowlands.
    Drakas Afterlive short has her spy on a legion world.
    Brokers just go on casual treasure hunting trips whenever they feel like it.
    We have ourselves opened portals to our very own capitals the very minute we entered Oribos.

    When someone dies, there is absolutely nothing stopping us or anyone else to just ask Pelagos for directions and then drag them out of there.
    There is nothing stopping a soul from just saving up a bunch of anima and paying their nearest Broker to port them back to their planet.

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    You are not.
    Ysera is not an example either.

    Ysera is the only soul that had any sort of bond to their designated realm, a bond only created because her pod was damaged and the Winter Queen had to push the emergency button.
    Could not have answered better myself. Thanks, Arafal.
    Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive.

  13. #66653
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    There is not a single established piece of lore, that in any way shape or form states that souls have any limitation as to whether or not they can leave if they have the telemantic means to it.
    In fact, the whole expansion establishes the exact opposite.

    Literally every covenant has a private means of leaving and entering and traversing the Shadowlands.
    Drakas Afterlive short has her spy on a legion world.
    Brokers just go on casual treasure hunting trips whenever they feel like it.
    We have ourselves opened portals to our very own capitals the very minute we entered Oribos.

    When someone dies, there is absolutely nothing stopping us or anyone else to just ask Pelagos for directions and then drag them out of there.
    There is nothing stopping a soul from just saving up a bunch of anima and paying their nearest Broker to port them back to their planet.

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    You are not.
    Ysera is not an example either.

    Ysera is the only soul that had any sort of bond to their designated realm, a bond only created because her pod was damaged and the Winter Queen had to push the emergency button.
    That's...true. shiet my bad

    Regardless, I would imagine their souls are still bound to the Realms of Death regardless.

  14. #66654
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmicpreds View Post
    That's...true. shiet my bad

    Regardless, I would imagine their souls are still bound to the Realms of Death regardless.
    Brokers aren't necessarily dead mortals or anything like that though. Draka being in a military organization would have special priveleges compared to anyone else and such. The fact we won't see so many formerly alive individuals tells you that in some way you can't just walk back to the living.
    #TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance #TeamNoBlueHorde

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  15. #66655
    As for the covenant stuff, yes they can explore the mortal plane and whatnot...only for their covenants purpose namely. Only rarely is it about any other moment or purpose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Brokers aren't necessarily dead mortals or anything like that though. Draka being in a military organization would have special priveleges compared to anyone else and such. The fact we won't see so many formerly alive individuals tells you that in some way you can't just walk back to the living.
    Yeah, I get it now. Thanks lol. I had a massive brain fart moment there

  16. #66656
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    There is not a single established piece of lore, that in any way shape or form states that souls have any limitation as to whether or not they can leave if they have the telemantic means to it.
    In fact, the whole expansion establishes the exact opposite.

    Literally every covenant has a private means of leaving and entering and traversing the Shadowlands.
    Drakas Afterlive short has her spy on a legion world.
    Hold it. Yes, of the four major Covenants that we saw, two do have means to leave and enter the Shadowlands... because that's a required feature for them to do their job. It also isn't available to every member. Neither the Venthyr nor Nightfae are shown to have this capability, however. We don't know what it is like for lesser Covenants, either.
    It also isn't available to every member. Only ascended Kyrians can do so, and it doesn't seem like rank and file Maldraxxians may just leave whenever they feel like it.

    Similarly, i'm not getting the sense that every Broker can just randomly open portals wherever, nor do they seem to be particularly willing to share that particular advantage freely.

    And none of this applies to the souls of the recently dead who haven't yet achieved any meaningful standing in their Covenant. The ones that can leave are not technically mortal souls anymore, or, like in the case of the Brokers, may well never have been.

  17. #66657
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    There is not a single established piece of lore, that in any way shape or form states that souls have any limitation as to whether or not they can leave if they have the telemantic means to it.
    In fact, the whole expansion establishes the exact opposite.

    Literally every covenant has a private means of leaving and entering and traversing the Shadowlands.
    Drakas Afterlive short has her spy on a legion world.
    Brokers just go on casual treasure hunting trips whenever they feel like it.
    We have ourselves opened portals to our very own capitals the very minute we entered Oribos.

    When someone dies, there is absolutely nothing stopping us or anyone else to just ask Pelagos for directions and then drag them out of there.
    There is nothing stopping a soul from just saving up a bunch of anima and paying their nearest Broker to port them back to their planet.

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    You are not.
    Ysera is not an example either.

    Ysera is the only soul that had any sort of bond to their designated realm, a bond only created because her pod was damaged and the Winter Queen had to push the emergency button.

    Again, none of what you are saying here is particularly new.
    First we will address it not being known about, which is not the case as established by Chronicle. Using Wowpedia, because I dont want to search the source directly,

    Until recently, the nature of the Shadowlands was obscure, with the living knowing the realm only as a cold and nightmarish place of labyrinthine spiritual planes. While many believe that souls of the dead languish in the Shadowlands forever, others hope their souls will go on to a brighter place.
    In fact, we've known since Cataclysm that spirits can force a return to the mortal plane through massive use of anima. It was the entire basis of Jin'do the Godbreaker return back in the day. We just didn't know it was "Anima" specifically, just spirits.

    <Bloodslayer Zala points at the temple in the distance.>

    When Jin'do was last ripped from dis world, he survived as a shade, weak and broken, in da spirit world.

    But Jin'do always had power over da spirits. One by one, he broke dem to his will, and wit' each soul devoured, Jin'do got closer ta' rippin' a hole through to dis world.

    Ta be here now...

    Da spirits be wit' us, we must end Jin'do.
    Summoning spirits, and hell. The Day of the Dead in WoW is built entirely around spirits coming and going. IT's not new lore. But they do stay spirits

  18. #66658
    I doubt there's anything explicitly binding souls to the Shadowlands. I think moreso its probably that they require raw anima to function and exist. Its possible that the lack of anima in sufficient quantities makes them staying in other realms impossible in the long term. At least, I think that's the easiest way for them to establish why people don't just go back to the mortal realms.

  19. #66659
    Quote Originally Posted by Khaza-R View Post
    I doubt there's anything explicitly binding souls to the Shadowlands. I think moreso its probably that they require raw anima to function and exist. Its possible that the lack of anima in sufficient quantities makes them staying in other realms impossible in the long term. At least, I think that's the easiest way for them to establish why people don't just go back to the mortal realms.
    They did explain that.
    Spirits fundamentally change and lose a sense of time and urgency. Only rare individuals, like the above mentioned Jindo, that retain enough of that to A) gather and bind enough souls to fuel that, and B) stay under the radar enough to get away with that much anima, considering the people in charge are kind of big on gathering Anima

  20. #66660
    Bloodsail Admiral Catastrophy349's Avatar
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    Discussing Shadowlands lore on a Sunday...must be a slow day.

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