Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Teriz]

You can get this one via crafting:

I'm really liking these sets. I hopefully the new class gives Mail gets some nice sets. They've been in the armor doghouse for years.

[Rageonit]

Don't 100% recall, but I don't believe they were. I think Gnome Hunters were opened for that PTR however. I did find this link with people talking about how they weren't available at that point on the PTR, so I suspect they weren't.

According to this article, they were released with the pre-patch. I couldn't remember it myself.

[Lady Atia]

Can you show rogue please?

Here you go ^.^

[Teriz]

Of course there is more. I could run a 30 Minute rant about how lame they turned out to be, and how this is evidently just corner cutting if you put them next to how Worgen handle their transformation...

And don't even let me start of the 1995-Raver Look the Dracthyr get in their Humanoid form, which is not for 1 second able to hide they are just rehashed human and bloodelf models again.

I get more of an elf/human hybrid vibe from the visage form. Which makes sense, because that's typically how Alexstraza and co. (sans Chromie) make themselves look.

[infinitemeridian]

Or you know, maybe they should tread m+ sets like the elite ones and make them a reward for actually playing a season? Otherwise please add pvp elite sets also to a vendor.

M+ already has a mount / title / portals as fomo, it doesn't need any more. Sets will add to the longevity of it, especially if they are available from previous seasons.

Have we had any info on what the prepatch event entails for DF? Will there be some sort of gear catch-up mechanism?

[Lady Atia]

M+ already has a mount / title / portals as fomo, it doesn't need any more. Sets will add to the longevity of it, especially if they are available from previous seasons.

Have we had any info on what the prepatch event entails for DF? Will there be some sort of gear catch-up mechanism?

PvP also has a mount / titles as fomo, it surely doesn't need elite sets on top by your argument.

And there prolly will be catch-up gear via elemental invasions for the prepatch event, just as usual.

[infinitemeridian]

PvP also has a mount / titles as fomo, it surely doesn't need elite sets on top by your argument.

And there prolly will be catch-up gear via elemental invasions for the prepatch event, just as usual.

I'm not defending pvp here, pvp could use some unique gear as well that isn't fomo.

[Lady Atia]

I'm not defending pvp here, pvp could use some unique gear as well that isn't fomo.

PvP does have non-fomo sets too. And there is nothing wrong with fomo stuff as long as everyone who wants it can achieve it during a season.

[infinitemeridian]

PvP does have non-fomo sets too. And there is nothing wrong with fomo stuff as long as everyone who wants it can achieve it during a season.

Fomo shouldn't be the only rewards. I see no reason why m+ can't have unique sets that can serve as long-term reasons to keep doing m+ outside of just gear for players that might not care about that. We already have fomo rewards for the people who push KSM. At the very least, the armor appearances that drop should be updated to the current tier of the raid for the season instead of the base sets that were there at launch.

[Lady Atia]

Fomo shouldn't be the only rewards. I see no reason why m+ can't have unique sets that can serve as long-term reasons to keep doing m+ outside of just gear for players that might not care about that. We already have fomo rewards.

Yeah but if they add 13 fomo tints per season you have your reason to keep players in m+ long-term. Like, every season. I understand the problems with FOMO but as long as it's accessible enough that everyone can get it (unlike gladiator mounts or pvp elite stuff) it's actually a good thing as it keeps players in the game throughout the season.

[infinitemeridian]

Yeah but if they add 13 fomo tints per season you have your reason to keep players in m+ long-term. Like, every season. I understand the problems with FOMO but as long as it's accessible enough that everyone can get it (unlike gladiator mounts or pvp elite stuff) it's actually a good thing as it keeps players in the game throughout the season.

Again, not every reward needs to be fomo. The game should not be designed around stringing people around on a per-season basis - as I stated, we already have things for that like KSM. Imagine if every season a new dungeon set was added - maybe the "elite" set is only available during the season, but some new sets every season should be added.

Then you add a generic currency from M+ like the dubloons from islands that you can spend on a vendor for rewards from previous seasons. This gives people more reasons to run m+, which right now is just a gear funnel and not very rewarding outside of that.

[Lady Atia]

Again, not every reward needs to be fomo. The game should not be designed around stringing people around on a per-season basis - as I stated, we already have things for that like KSM. Imagine if every season a new dungeon set was added - maybe the "elite" set is only available during the season, but some new sets every season should be added.

Then you add a generic currency from M+ like the dubloons from islands that you can spend on a vendor for rewards from previous seasons. This gives people more reasons to run m+, which right now is just a gear funnel and not very rewarding outside of that.

Well I agree with your general statement. Just saying if pvp'ers get an elite set every season we M+ people should also get one. And if you have 4-13 tints per season you will have enough reason to run it outside of gear funnel.

[infinitemeridian]

I am sure the devs will love the idea to force everyone into M+. The players not so much, as still a minority only plays M+.

Nobody is "forced". I'm talking about purely cosmetic stuff.

[Lady Atia]

I am sure the devs will love the idea to force everyone into M+. The players not so much, as still a minority only plays M+.

Lol. M+ is the most successful gaming mode ever implemented by Blizzard. And adding time-limited cosmetic rewards isn't "forcing" anyone into M+ either.

[Lady Atia]

No, the most successfull gaming modes ever implemented are questing, followed by the dungeon finder followed by LFR.

Do you want to pretend premade group gameplay ever adressed a majority?

Oh yes, the Dungeon Finder - such a good feature that it's now only used for level up dungeons and HC's which no one runs, deemed so succesful a feature that Blizzard doesn't even want to implement it into WotLK classic.

Questing was there from day one, it's not a gaming mode lol, it's the base of the game. And we better don't talk about "LFR" lol.

[infinitemeridian]

No, the most successfull gaming modes ever implemented are questing, followed by the dungeon finder followed by LFR.

Do you want to pretend premade group gameplay ever adressed a majority?

If you're talking about "forced", questing is the most forced mechanic in the game. There is nothing wrong with cosmetic content locked behind certain content, that has always been the case. I'm not sure what your argument is here.

[Lady Atia]

The devs did not add the dungeon finder to wotlk classic due to bias and a very sick idea "it hurt the community feeling", not because the idea it was not popular. Infact, every player played quests, every player used the dungeon finder and LFR was played by around 70% of the players when statistic values still were available. Mythic+ is not close to it based on wowprogress numbers.



Right, questing is the life blood of every MMORPG. Yet, we have no real gearing progression other than a few very bad designed none repetetive world quests and grinds in the questing endgame beside leveling in WoW. Instead of that, the devs cater the endgame to minorities like premade group players.

And you do not want to talk about LFR considering it is way more successfull in the means of participation rates compared to mythic+?

Why? Do you actually even have any numbers to backup your claims "M+ is the most successfull game mode ever"?

Sounds more like a bias.

Going with data for azeroth numbers (which poll directly from active accounts on the armory), only 16% of all players finished Sepulcher of the First ones on ANY mode, including LFR, and this includes both season 3 and 4. Compared to that, atleast 22% of all players got atleast Keystone Explorer in Season 3. So yes, M+ is more successfull than raids. And raids, M+ and pvp are the three pillars of the game, according to Blizzard (and with Dragonflight, their aim is to make crafting into another one).

Feel free to check achievement completion % on your own:
https://www.dataforazeroth.com/chara...ostwolf/khatia

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If you're talking about "forced", questing is the most forced mechanic in the game. There is nothing wrong with cosmetic content locked behind certain content, that has always been the case. I'm not sure what your argument is here.

Maybe he wants every cosmetic item available through a lootbox he can get once a day via some world quest or something.

*shrugs*

[infinitemeridian]

I do not talk about a specific raid, i talk about the success of game modes. You actually compare one of the least popular raids with mythic+. And no, mythic+, in general is not "way more succcessfull" than raids, and LFR itself is split into different parts and you completely forgot the number of players which played the first parts.

LFRs success in participation rates outnumbers all M+ participation rates, as simply 70% of all players played LFR in the past, see the participation staticics from early LFR implementation from MMO-C:



As you wrote yourself, Mythic+ did not even get close to it with 22%, and as you completely ignore the first bosses of the raids, which reach that 70% mark, you cannot really compare that.

If M+ has low participation, all the more reason to give it better rewards, seeing as that is what most drives player behavior.

[Lady Atia]

I do not talk about a specific raid, i talk about the success of game modes. You actually compare one of the least popular raids with mythic+. And no, mythic+, in general is not "way more succcessfull" than raids, and LFR itself is split into different parts and you completely forgot the number of players which played the first parts.

LFRs success in participation rates outnumbers all M+ participation rates, as simply 70% of all players played LFR in the past, see the participation staticics from early LFR implementation from MMO-C:



As you wrote yourself, Mythic+ did not even get close to it with 22%, and as you completely ignore the first bosses of the raids, which reach that 70% mark, you cannot really compare that.

Lol, are you really using the numbers of SoO, the raid that was available for more than a year? From an expansion where the only way to get gear was raiding? It was literally the only way to play the game (as CM's didn't reward any gear, and the daily rewards were a joke at that point in time) besides timeless isle and that was catch-up gear only (which you got so you could play the raid ....).

Also, Ephemeral Plains, the first wing of the Sepulcher also only has 26% completion. Meanwhile we don't know the numbers of people who only finished a single +2 (which would be the equivalent of your "only the first bosses count" argument), but I bet they are higher than that.

[infinitemeridian]

I actually would want to split progression pathes. Actually, blizzard forces every player to play gameplay they do not like. This includes questers who have to play LFR to see the death of the current big baddie. But it also includes raiders that do not want to play quests.

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Sure, that would be a great argument, but that contradicts the idea not to force players into game modes they do not want to play.

Nobody is forced when it comes to cosmetic content. I'm not sure what your argument is here - there is nothing wrong with certain content rewarding unique things to players who do it. It's kind of one of the underlying tenets of what makes an MMO good. I would argue WoW's reward system needs a complete overhaul. There's too many reskins and recolors that come from too many types of content. Rewards should be unique and signify a player participated in or completed certain activities / challenges. FF14 does this great - the mounts are all unique and when I see a player with a mount, I know instantly how they got it and what I have to do to get it if I want. I'm not "forced", but it cosmetic rewards are one of, if not the most important, pieces that inform the average player decisions, especially casuals. Are people "forced" to farm old raids for transmog / mounts / pets?

Every way that people play the game should include some type of cosmetic rewards, a common reward that is somewhat easier to get, better rewards for people who push it, and then FOMO for the top-end.

Nobody was "forced" to do the Mage Tower, yet people did it because it had cool unique rewards and people wanted them. Fomo aside, that was good design, it motivated me to play specs I didn't normally play and I had the most fun in WoW that I've ever had building all my characters up and then taking on the challenges, which were fun in and of themselves.