1. #66821
    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    So, hold on... Are the Val'kyr dead Vrykul that went to the Shadowlands and became Kyrian Watchers and then Odyn took them or did Odyn take their souls before they even went there?
    The first batch of Val'kyr were unwilling Vrykul that were transformed by Odyn, through Helya, against their will, so they could bolster Odyns numbers.

    The second (and current, I guess) are trained Vrykul who are chosen by Eyir to ascend. They also kinda skip the whole "being judged" thing and take dead warriors straight to the Halls of Valor.

    The Scourge ones are entirely different, they are Vrykul twisted by the Lich King into being Val'kyr... somehow? They never really expanded upon that.

  2. #66822
    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    The first batch of Val'kyr were unwilling Vrykul that were transformed by Odyn, through Helya, against their will, so they could bolster Odyns numbers.

    The second (and current, I guess) are trained Vrykul who are chosen by Eyir to ascend. They also kinda skip the whole "being judged" thing and take dead warriors straight to the Halls of Valor.

    The Scourge ones are entirely different, they are Vrykul twisted by the Lich King into being Val'kyr... somehow? They never really expanded upon that.
    Some of the Val'kyr are presumably early rogue Kyrians. Specifically the Nine that helped Sylvanas, going by how they are dressed in Mawsworn attire and use Kyrian themed weapons.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  3. #66823
    The Insane Raetary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    So, hold on... Are the Val'kyr dead Vrykul that went to the Shadowlands and became Kyrian Watchers and then Odyn took them or did Odyn take their souls before they even went there?
    The latter.

    Odyn got the knowledge on how to create his own version of ascended by peering past the veil and making a deal with Mueh'zala.


    Formerly known as Arafal

  4. #66824
    Alright, thanks guys. I'm less confused now.

  5. #66825
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Some of the Val'kyr are presumably early rogue Kyrians. Specifically the Nine that helped Sylvanas, going by how they are dressed in Mawsworn attire and use Kyrian themed weapons.
    Dunno.

    All but two of them get resurrected as Mawsworns because they died prior, so I thought it had something to do with that.

  6. #66826
    Shadowlands lore has seriously fudged up alot of the standing lore... I hate it.

  7. #66827
    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    Dunno.

    All but two of them get resurrected as Mawsworns because they died prior, so I thought it had something to do with that.
    That is definitely a likely reason. Though it still begs the question of why they were in the employ of the Jailer from at least right after the Lich King died.
    In the end I guess it doesn't matter at all, but still interesting hat they use Kyrian weapons rather than Mawsworn ones.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  8. #66828
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Some of the Val'kyr are presumably early rogue Kyrians. Specifically the Nine that helped Sylvanas, going by how they are dressed in Mawsworn attire and use Kyrian themed weapons.
    no
    odyn saw the kyrian and jacked their style for his new homeboys

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiriastrasza View Post
    Shadowlands lore has seriously fudged up alot of the standing lore... I hate it.
    but the lore is so rich and amazing
    dreadlords arent demons they are beings from the shadowlands hence why they revived in argus...like a demon...
    well the jailer sent the legion to azeroth by giving them the helm and blade of domination to...get a servant on a planet he already had servants on
    the eternal ones united to stop him and when the drought happened...fought each other because...drought??
    but sylvanas would never serve the jailer and hated arthas so she...became arthas and served the jailer

  9. #66829
    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Man View Post
    but the lore is so rich and amazing
    dreadlords arent demons they are beings from the shadowlands hence why they revived in argus...like a demon...
    well the jailer sent the legion to azeroth by giving them the helm and blade of domination to...get a servant on a planet he already had servants on
    the eternal ones united to stop him and when the drought happened...fought each other because...drought??
    but sylvanas would never serve the jailer and hated arthas so she...became arthas and served the jailer
    Sounds like you never bothered to even check what the lore is, so you're hardly qualified to comment on it.

  10. #66830
    The Lightbringer Lady Atia's Avatar
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    Anyone else stuck at lvl 68 on the Beta?^^ Guess I have to do quite a few side quests now?

  11. #66831
    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Man View Post
    no
    odyn saw the kyrian and jacked their style for his new homeboys

    - - - Updated - - -



    but the lore is so rich and amazing
    dreadlords arent demons they are beings from the shadowlands hence why they revived in argus...like a demon...
    well the jailer sent the legion to azeroth by giving them the helm and blade of domination to...get a servant on a planet he already had servants on
    the eternal ones united to stop him and when the drought happened...fought each other because...drought??
    but sylvanas would never serve the jailer and hated arthas so she...became arthas and served the jailer
    It's long been established that most demons turned INTO demons, they weren't simply made demons. Dreadlords are demons because they accepted the fel, but they weren't demons prior to that.

  12. #66832
    Quote Originally Posted by Gurkan View Post
    It's long been established that most demons turned INTO demons, they weren't simply made demons. Dreadlords are demons because they accepted the fel, but they weren't demons prior to that.
    It is weird that Sargeras who was specialized in dealing with demons and the Fel did not realize those were not demons yet (since at that point they were conferring with the Void, not Fel). Also weird how the Eredar, most gifted magic users in the universe, never realized what the nathrezim were doing to Argus' soul.

  13. #66833
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    It is weird that Sargeras who was specialized in dealing with demons and the Fel did not realize those were not demons yet (since at that point they were conferring with the Void, not Fel). Also weird how the Eredar, most gifted magic users in the universe, never realized what the nathrezim were doing to Argus' soul.
    As long as the Nathrezim used the soul to make the demons regenerate faster in the nether, I doubt the Eredar would care.

  14. #66834
    Quote Originally Posted by Gurkan View Post
    As long as the Nathrezim used the soul to make the demons regenerate faster in the nether, I doubt the Eredar would care.
    You think Kil'jaeden would not at least be curious about what they were doing?

  15. #66835
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    You think Kil'jaeden would not at least be curious about what they were doing?
    I think they were pretty clear with what they were doing, they were using his soul to speed up the process of regeneration.

  16. #66836
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    It is weird that Sargeras who was specialized in dealing with demons and the Fel did not realize those were not demons yet (since at that point they were conferring with the Void, not Fel). Also weird how the Eredar, most gifted magic users in the universe, never realized what the nathrezim were doing to Argus' soul.
    Remember what Magni says when you get there? They likely had no idea the Nathrezim were doing anything with it.

  17. #66837
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    You think Kil'jaeden would not at least be curious about what they were doing?
    There is no lore that says he didnt. We barely know anything about the inner workings and drama of the legion.

    Far as we know sargeras and archi and killyj knew everything about thr nathrezim and so long as they got what THEY wanted it didnt matter. If u find out you have a double agent one option is keep em around and use that to your advantage.

    And then there is the fact that the nathrezim seem UNIQUELY gifted in magical subterfuge. The books suggest the lightnound one might be a traitor to the army of light.

    So its really silly to have a blatant example of how a nathrezim can be magically transmuted into a being from a different magical aspect and then suggest its counter to the lore that sargy didnt know they werent demons.

    You might as well say "well he doesnt LOOK like an orc , so maybe that changeling isnt him". Their entire scticht is disguise. If that guy can become a light elemental version of himself and work with them for a thousand years then surely some demonic looking creaturs that are masters of shadowmagic can pretend to be fel. In fact the legion ones probably are. Elf biology is extremely suseptible to elemental changes, why not a race specifically crafted to be?
    Romance doesnt detract from a story. Its a Genre, like horror or comedy or adventure. The game was ruined when we got Horror in drustvar or nazmir. It wasnt ruined when we had funny quests. So if you think a little man on man love ruins the game, then yes you are either a homophobe or just a spoil sport that goes "ewww kissing is yucky" like a baby. Furthermore, if a character has never expressed interest in any gender, then its not proof they are straight. straight people are not the default

  18. #66838
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    It is weird that Sargeras who was specialized in dealing with demons and the Fel did not realize those were not demons yet (since at that point they were conferring with the Void, not Fel). Also weird how the Eredar, most gifted magic users in the universe, never realized what the nathrezim were doing to Argus' soul.
    We don't actually know whether the Nathrezim were demons at that point or when they set up on what would become Nathreza. Even if they weren't it's not like it makes a difference, converting races he fancies into demons is the Legion's gimmick. Notwithstanding how many'd actually have access to Argus's soul in the first place and that the Dreadlords are the Legion's go-to necromancers, considering it was done to speed up the regeneration of his armies and it did accomplish that, Sargeras'd have no reason to stop them even if he knew they originally worked for the Bald Man. Why would he?

    If Sargeras wins and swordfucks the planet, the Bald Man can't put her soul in his machine and his convoluted plan can't go forward. The MO of the Legion in turning souls to fuel for fel means that the Legion ontologicaly can't help the Bald Man and the last time the Dreadlords struck out on their own in the Legion's absence in TFT, they got foiled by 1 (one) banshee, the zombies she had on hand and fucking Garithos. He can take advantage of the Dreadlords working for him consequence-free no matter whether he thinks they're on the level or not. For the time being they're pulling their weight in helping him.
    Last edited by Super Dickmann; 2022-09-06 at 07:54 AM.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

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  19. #66839
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    We don't actually know whether the Nathrezim were demons at that point or when they set up on what would become Nathreza. Even if they weren't it's not like it makes a difference, converting races he fancies into demons is the Legion's gimmick. Notwithstanding how many'd actually have access to Argus's soul in the first place and that the Dreadlords are the Legion's go-to necromancers, considering it was done to speed up the regeneration of his armies and it did accomplish that, Sargeras'd have no reason to stop them even if he knew they originally worked for the Bald Man. Why would he?

    If Sargeras wins and swordfucks the planet, the Bald Man can't put her soul in his machine and his convoluted plan can't go forward. The MO of the Legion in turning souls to fuel for fel means that the Legion ontologicaly can't help the Bald Man and the last time the Dreadlords struck out on their own in the Legion's absence in TFT, they got foiled by 1 (one) banshee, the zombies she had on hand and fucking Garithos. He can take advantage of the Dreadlords working for him consequence-free no matter whether he thinks they're on the level or not. For the time being they're pulling their weight in helping him.
    I just find it weird that a genius like Kil'jaeden would not know he had an entire race of double/triple agents working for them and would not have researched what they were doing. It's not like the Eredar are not accomplished necromancers (Auchenai necromancy certainly seems far more advanced than what Scourge necromancers do tbh)

    Of course they could have known and like you say, not cared. Their plans were just not incompatible.

    And yeah always felt that if anything, the Legion was the worst thing that could have happened for the realms of Death. Death must have starved for anima compared to each peak gains long before the Arbiter got BSOD because the Legion was destroying souls (and thus potential anima) at a massive scale and Death barely did anything against them.

    But hey Zovaal is probably peak failing upwards vibes.

  20. #66840
    So to discuss a different topic.
    How would everyone feel about Tuskarr and Gnolls becoming new ARs. We have found some Gnolls who are at least decently able to not be rabid, and Tuskarr of course can seemingly already wear regular player armor.

    Would you want these two as AR? And more importantly which factions do you think they will end up in?
    Personally feel like Gnolls would go to Alliance given the Hogger connection, but equally this could be a good reason to have them be Horde. Not sure about reasons for Tuskarr to join either though. I guess shamanistic connections for Horde, and being similar to Kul Tirans culturally for Alliance.

    Honestly I just want to play a cool Gnoll doing fun Gnoll stuff.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

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