Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Lady Atia]

I'm not defending pvp here, pvp could use some unique gear as well that isn't fomo.

PvP does have non-fomo sets too. And there is nothing wrong with fomo stuff as long as everyone who wants it can achieve it during a season.

[infinitemeridian]

PvP does have non-fomo sets too. And there is nothing wrong with fomo stuff as long as everyone who wants it can achieve it during a season.

Fomo shouldn't be the only rewards. I see no reason why m+ can't have unique sets that can serve as long-term reasons to keep doing m+ outside of just gear for players that might not care about that. We already have fomo rewards for the people who push KSM. At the very least, the armor appearances that drop should be updated to the current tier of the raid for the season instead of the base sets that were there at launch.

[Lady Atia]

Fomo shouldn't be the only rewards. I see no reason why m+ can't have unique sets that can serve as long-term reasons to keep doing m+ outside of just gear for players that might not care about that. We already have fomo rewards.

Yeah but if they add 13 fomo tints per season you have your reason to keep players in m+ long-term. Like, every season. I understand the problems with FOMO but as long as it's accessible enough that everyone can get it (unlike gladiator mounts or pvp elite stuff) it's actually a good thing as it keeps players in the game throughout the season.

[infinitemeridian]

Yeah but if they add 13 fomo tints per season you have your reason to keep players in m+ long-term. Like, every season. I understand the problems with FOMO but as long as it's accessible enough that everyone can get it (unlike gladiator mounts or pvp elite stuff) it's actually a good thing as it keeps players in the game throughout the season.

Again, not every reward needs to be fomo. The game should not be designed around stringing people around on a per-season basis - as I stated, we already have things for that like KSM. Imagine if every season a new dungeon set was added - maybe the "elite" set is only available during the season, but some new sets every season should be added.

Then you add a generic currency from M+ like the dubloons from islands that you can spend on a vendor for rewards from previous seasons. This gives people more reasons to run m+, which right now is just a gear funnel and not very rewarding outside of that.

[Lady Atia]

Again, not every reward needs to be fomo. The game should not be designed around stringing people around on a per-season basis - as I stated, we already have things for that like KSM. Imagine if every season a new dungeon set was added - maybe the "elite" set is only available during the season, but some new sets every season should be added.

Then you add a generic currency from M+ like the dubloons from islands that you can spend on a vendor for rewards from previous seasons. This gives people more reasons to run m+, which right now is just a gear funnel and not very rewarding outside of that.

Well I agree with your general statement. Just saying if pvp'ers get an elite set every season we M+ people should also get one. And if you have 4-13 tints per season you will have enough reason to run it outside of gear funnel.

[infinitemeridian]

I am sure the devs will love the idea to force everyone into M+. The players not so much, as still a minority only plays M+.

Nobody is "forced". I'm talking about purely cosmetic stuff.

[Lady Atia]

I am sure the devs will love the idea to force everyone into M+. The players not so much, as still a minority only plays M+.

Lol. M+ is the most successful gaming mode ever implemented by Blizzard. And adding time-limited cosmetic rewards isn't "forcing" anyone into M+ either.

[Lady Atia]

No, the most successfull gaming modes ever implemented are questing, followed by the dungeon finder followed by LFR.

Do you want to pretend premade group gameplay ever adressed a majority?

Oh yes, the Dungeon Finder - such a good feature that it's now only used for level up dungeons and HC's which no one runs, deemed so succesful a feature that Blizzard doesn't even want to implement it into WotLK classic.

Questing was there from day one, it's not a gaming mode lol, it's the base of the game. And we better don't talk about "LFR" lol.

[Cosmicpreds]

I feel like the islands being a cluster of magic filled places, elemental or otherwise, while also containing a huge titan facility that can and does affect the whole region is a pretty good explanation on its own.

Yes. That is exactly my point on why the Dragon Isles has such a strange climate lool.

So I am a little confused as to what Loras and co are confused by. :/

[infinitemeridian]

No, the most successfull gaming modes ever implemented are questing, followed by the dungeon finder followed by LFR.

Do you want to pretend premade group gameplay ever adressed a majority?

If you're talking about "forced", questing is the most forced mechanic in the game. There is nothing wrong with cosmetic content locked behind certain content, that has always been the case. I'm not sure what your argument is here.

[Lady Atia]

The devs did not add the dungeon finder to wotlk classic due to bias and a very sick idea "it hurt the community feeling", not because the idea it was not popular. Infact, every player played quests, every player used the dungeon finder and LFR was played by around 70% of the players when statistic values still were available. Mythic+ is not close to it based on wowprogress numbers.



Right, questing is the life blood of every MMORPG. Yet, we have no real gearing progression other than a few very bad designed none repetetive world quests and grinds in the questing endgame beside leveling in WoW. Instead of that, the devs cater the endgame to minorities like premade group players.

And you do not want to talk about LFR considering it is way more successfull in the means of participation rates compared to mythic+?

Why? Do you actually even have any numbers to backup your claims "M+ is the most successfull game mode ever"?

Sounds more like a bias.

Going with data for azeroth numbers (which poll directly from active accounts on the armory), only 16% of all players finished Sepulcher of the First ones on ANY mode, including LFR, and this includes both season 3 and 4. Compared to that, atleast 22% of all players got atleast Keystone Explorer in Season 3. So yes, M+ is more successfull than raids. And raids, M+ and pvp are the three pillars of the game, according to Blizzard (and with Dragonflight, their aim is to make crafting into another one).

Feel free to check achievement completion % on your own:
https://www.dataforazeroth.com/chara...ostwolf/khatia

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If you're talking about "forced", questing is the most forced mechanic in the game. There is nothing wrong with cosmetic content locked behind certain content, that has always been the case. I'm not sure what your argument is here.

Maybe he wants every cosmetic item available through a lootbox he can get once a day via some world quest or something.

*shrugs*

[infinitemeridian]

I do not talk about a specific raid, i talk about the success of game modes. You actually compare one of the least popular raids with mythic+. And no, mythic+, in general is not "way more succcessfull" than raids, and LFR itself is split into different parts and you completely forgot the number of players which played the first parts.

LFRs success in participation rates outnumbers all M+ participation rates, as simply 70% of all players played LFR in the past, see the participation staticics from early LFR implementation from MMO-C:



As you wrote yourself, Mythic+ did not even get close to it with 22%, and as you completely ignore the first bosses of the raids, which reach that 70% mark, you cannot really compare that.

If M+ has low participation, all the more reason to give it better rewards, seeing as that is what most drives player behavior.

[Lady Atia]

I do not talk about a specific raid, i talk about the success of game modes. You actually compare one of the least popular raids with mythic+. And no, mythic+, in general is not "way more succcessfull" than raids, and LFR itself is split into different parts and you completely forgot the number of players which played the first parts.

LFRs success in participation rates outnumbers all M+ participation rates, as simply 70% of all players played LFR in the past, see the participation staticics from early LFR implementation from MMO-C:



As you wrote yourself, Mythic+ did not even get close to it with 22%, and as you completely ignore the first bosses of the raids, which reach that 70% mark, you cannot really compare that.

Lol, are you really using the numbers of SoO, the raid that was available for more than a year? From an expansion where the only way to get gear was raiding? It was literally the only way to play the game (as CM's didn't reward any gear, and the daily rewards were a joke at that point in time) besides timeless isle and that was catch-up gear only (which you got so you could play the raid ....).

Also, Ephemeral Plains, the first wing of the Sepulcher also only has 26% completion. Meanwhile we don't know the numbers of people who only finished a single +2 (which would be the equivalent of your "only the first bosses count" argument), but I bet they are higher than that.

[infinitemeridian]

I actually would want to split progression pathes. Actually, blizzard forces every player to play gameplay they do not like. This includes questers who have to play LFR to see the death of the current big baddie. But it also includes raiders that do not want to play quests.

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Sure, that would be a great argument, but that contradicts the idea not to force players into game modes they do not want to play.

Nobody is forced when it comes to cosmetic content. I'm not sure what your argument is here - there is nothing wrong with certain content rewarding unique things to players who do it. It's kind of one of the underlying tenets of what makes an MMO good. I would argue WoW's reward system needs a complete overhaul. There's too many reskins and recolors that come from too many types of content. Rewards should be unique and signify a player participated in or completed certain activities / challenges. FF14 does this great - the mounts are all unique and when I see a player with a mount, I know instantly how they got it and what I have to do to get it if I want. I'm not "forced", but it cosmetic rewards are one of, if not the most important, pieces that inform the average player decisions, especially casuals. Are people "forced" to farm old raids for transmog / mounts / pets?

Every way that people play the game should include some type of cosmetic rewards, a common reward that is somewhat easier to get, better rewards for people who push it, and then FOMO for the top-end.

Nobody was "forced" to do the Mage Tower, yet people did it because it had cool unique rewards and people wanted them. Fomo aside, that was good design, it motivated me to play specs I didn't normally play and I had the most fun in WoW that I've ever had building all my characters up and then taking on the challenges, which were fun in and of themselves.

[Lady Atia]

Yeah, as they actually support my argument. And we did not talk about a time frame. My argument stands, and the facts are obvious. Ignore it or accept it.



I am sure you bet. But you have no numbers. I actually have numbers and argument them. Also, on which player number do you base your completion rates? Please state a source as like i did.

Data for Azeroth (https://www.dataforazeroth.com/leade...s/achievements), which pulls directly from the armory, as I already told you. Please read what I write. =)

[Lady Atia]

It actually does not matter if a reward has power or not. If you want to play that reward, you have to play that component. Actually, it would be way more smart to make cosmetic rewards available from multiple sources.



Well, i would agree if we had horizontal gear progression but we do not have that. We have one reward from one gameplay component, and you do not get that reward anywhere else. If i had to design gearing, i would make it component specific as well based on item bonuses and special stats. As like PVE->PVP gear.




No, a MMO would be good if it adressed all of the playstyles its players want to play. WoW is not "good" currently, as endgame progression is limited to a few players only.




I think all gameplay components should have different levels and different rewards based on the challenge. Not only raiding and mythic+.




The Mage tower was a bad excuse of solo player gameplay, simply because it had no progression on its own. If blizzard wants to make it right they should offer progression for every of their playstyles.

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Please link the statistic itself which shows the participation numbers based on the total number of players.

Dude, you can literally do that yourself if you don't believe what I write? Klick on a character, search for the achievement in question and read the % number. I'm done discussing with you - all you do is spread bad vibes, posting numbers from the game from 9 years ago and ignoring what everyone else writes. Can we please go back to beta discussion?!

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Btw, the Mythic Evoker tint works super well with the purple barber shop armour:



Sadly it seems like you can only use the shoulders and girdle for your Dracthyr form, even though the tier set was made for only Dracthyr in mind. Not unexpected, but still a missed opportunity in my eyes.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Stop arguing with the guy, he's been complaining since Shadowlands started.

[Lamoth]

On climate explanation.

Feel free to ask devs at QnA, they might explain it.

But within the game there is no reason to give an answer. Because for that you need someone within the world to ask that question, and why do you think anyone in Azeroth would? They don't have a precedent of our Earth to refer to. Bioms and climate in existing landmasses does not naturally lead to latitude dependency being an agreed on factor due to well pretty random nature of bioms in those explored landmasses.

So, No - there is no in-world need to explain it.

[Makabreska]

Is that your argument? Going ad hominem?

Well, you keep dodging actual arguments. The thing is, long time ago you decided that WoW is shit, and that it will be shit (cuz Ion lawyer is in charge lol), and nothing is gonna change your mind. That is why any discussion with you is pointless. If you want to stew in your bitterness, then sure. No one cares.

[Gorsameth]

Dude, you can literally do that yourself if you don't believe what I write? Klick on a character, search for the achievement in question and read the % number. I'm done discussing with you - all you do is spread bad vibes, posting numbers from the game from 9 years ago and ignoring what everyone else writes. Can we please go back to beta discussion?!

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Btw, the Mythic Evoker tint works super well with the purple barber shop armour:



Sadly it seems like you can only use the shoulders and girdle for your Dracthyr form, even though the tier set was made for only Dracthyr in mind. Not unexpected, but still a missed opportunity in my eyes.

Not even Tier sets showing up in Dracthyr form is a serious letdown.

The fact they actually designed a race that can't transmog, knowing how popular transmogs are, is mind boggling.

Because this is a conscious design decision, they could 100% have made a draconic form that can show off armour. They chose for it to not work.