Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Greyfang]

I just got access to beta. Does anyone know how to create a lv58 dracthyr to try out the starting zone? It will only let me create lvl60 characters.

[Nymrohd]

I just went through Dragon Soul thinking I could get a selfie with all the Aspects for this beta competition to discover how limited the damn selfie is. Really now, they wasted a patch developing that?

[boyzma]

I just went through Dragon Soul thinking I could get a selfie with all the Aspects for this beta competition to discover how limited the damn selfie is. Really now, they wasted a patch developing that?

So in actuality you're really saying "I wasn't able to do the things required to win a beta key so I could "play" the expansion, therefore I am not going to admit I couldn't do it but blame the developers and claim they wasted a patch." Get real Snowflake...I'm sure plenty of people have completed the task. Quit with the damn "wasted a patch" bit...got real old a long time ago.

[Nymrohd]

So in actuality you're really saying "I wasn't able to do the things required to win a beta key so I could "play" the expansion, therefore I am not going to admit I couldn't do it but blame the developers and claim they wasted a patch." Get real Snowflake...I'm sure plenty of people have completed the task. Quit with the damn "wasted a patch" bit...got real old a long time ago.

? Is this sarcasm? I still got selfies, I just had to get four separate ones and collage them. But really that feature needed more work, let me get a wide shot or something. Maybe some NPC interaction where NPCs realize they are in a selfie and look to the camera.

[Makabreska]

Hunters suddenly get a r̶a̶i̶d̶ party wide CD:

[Alanar]

Calia was pretty much created by the Light, created by a Naaru that had fully descended into a void state for millenia before being brought back. "The Light has struck a bargain with the enemy of all." I think Calia is the product of that bargain. Imo when the Light expansion comes, Calia will inevitably be involved and she is a far more obvious pawn of the Light than certain people's obsession Turalyon.

She got ressed ye.., in a unique way, but I dont think she was a devoted follower or anything. She was just lucky these forces were there to help her. I cant compare her to some one like Turalyon, who is a devoted light follower in all its glory, while calia just wants to help her people, her faith is not a main topic here.

No matter how hard people try to stirr the wheel the other way. Its a not a matter of obsession, its more like he fits in every way without even trying. I can understand why you say calia, but what we have seen from her.. it doesnt seem like that is an arc for her, she is all about restoring.

I cant really think of some one who has an obsession with the guy.. besides one person. Lets not summon him.

[Varodoc]

Calia was pretty much created by the Light, created by a Naaru that had fully descended into a void state for millenia before being brought back. "The Light has struck a bargain with the enemy of all." I think Calia is the product of that bargain. Imo when the Light expansion comes, Calia will inevitably be involved and she is a far more obvious pawn of the Light than certain people's obsession Turalyon.

It's mostly just a few people online (all Horde players ofc) still resenting SoO and wanting an Alliance counterpart in Stormwind.

It doesn't make any actual logical sense for Turalyon, the man who put aside his grudges to stop the Legion alongside the Illidari (monsters), to become a villain, nor will he actually become a villain, since they already pushed Yrel to be a villain.

Besides, as we have seen so far, Regent Turalyon is the best ruler Stormwind has had in modern years. Unlike Varian and Anduin, his reign is currently marked by several years of internal stability and peace. No doubt thanks to his advisors too, chiefly amongst them Alleria Windrunner.

[Icelin]

She got ressed ye.., in a unique way, but I dont think she was a devoted follower or anything. She was just lucky these forces were there to help her. I cant compare her to some one like Turalyon, who is a devoted light follower in all its glory, while calia just wants to help her people, her faith is not a main topic here.

From my understanding this character doesn't fit that trope. No. Not in cannon.

You know what character did? Tyrande.

Cannon all the way back to WC3, "Only the Goddess commands me what to do."

From all other cannon among many expansions... Yet all I received was a small clip of her faith. It was beautiful clip , too bad it made absolutely no sense. Instead all the other clips that we did receive was her going melee/demon hunter which isn't cannon, decapitating male characters right and left. With a scowl on her face. Truly disgusting imagery. That made no sense to what that character ever was. Seemed like some bitter ex lover propaganda to me, or someone who just enjoys spreading violent, hateful messages.

I heard RoP has done the same thing to Galadriel. Made her character into melee when she was one of the most powerful spell casters. (Tyrande was a priestess btw) Such an uproar about it, now image if they had her decapitating a majority of strong/important male characters. How it would settle with the audience. This media needs to do people a favor and not tamper with cannon to push an agenda.

As for Calia, I don't even understand why they would put her in this expansion. SLs was the time to do it when the Forsaken leader was having a closing arc. They are suppose to be done with death and focus on life which should naturally overall create a more positive atmosphere. With less abusive messaging and agenda. Just characters having fun.

I am tired of the Night Elves too it has been several expansions of it. I am over with what they did with them. It has just become boring. Ya I have made it clear several times I am not impressed what unfolded with them but in all honesty I am genuinely tired of staying on the same topic. Same goes for several characters I have seen get screen time for way too long. I have been stating this for years, I am curious to know it they actually listened. Like they claim they do.. with so few remaining paying customers left.

[Sondrelk]

Hunters suddenly get a r̶a̶i̶d̶ party wide CD:

Hardly a great one annoyingly. Maybe if it was raid wide it would be something great. Or better yet, didn't require investing two talent points to get.

[Abitou]

anyone not subbed got into beta ?

[Foolicious]

Hardly a great one annoyingly. Maybe if it was raid wide it would be something great. Or better yet, didn't require investing two talent points to get.

I think its not bad. It doesn't have a real cooldown, only requires you to spend focus (lets say 45-60 seconds average) and can help out tanks a lot in progression so survive heavy magic damage better.
Is it a buff that hunters needed? Absolutely not. But in a world where priests can't have an interrupt why not give out magic damage reduction to hunters? Makes sense to me.

[Caiphon]

It's mostly just a few people online (all Horde players ofc) still resenting SoO and wanting an Alliance counterpart in Stormwind.

It doesn't make any actual logical sense for Turalyon, the man who put aside his grudges to stop the Legion alongside the Illidari (monsters), to become a villain, nor will he actually become a villain, since they already pushed Yrel to be a villain.

Besides, as we have seen so far, Regent Turalyon is the best ruler Stormwind has had in modern years. Unlike Varian and Anduin, his reign is currently marked by several years of internal stability and peace. No doubt thanks to his advisors too, chiefly amongst them Alleria Windrunner.

Let us not forget we're dealing with Blizzard, corruption would be its middle name if companies can have middle names. Jaina was pretty much personified peace, willing to sacrifice her own father to stop an all out war between humans and the newborn Horde. After MoP though? Easily the most aggressive, hateful Alliance leader up until mid BfA where she softens up a bit and Tyrande takes on the mantle.

It wouldn't be beyond Blizzard to come up with some sort of event that turns Turalyon into a fanatic zealot that wants to purge all 'dark' powers and entities from Azeroth - after all we have warlocks, demon hunters, death knights and void people walking around. Alleria might even give out quests saying her husband needs to be stopped, who knows? Or perhaps Khadgar would intervene like Kalec did when Jaina was trying to pull off a Stratholme in Orgrimmar.

[Sondrelk]

I think its not bad. It doesn't have a real cooldown, only requires you to spend focus (lets say 45-60 seconds average) and can help out tanks a lot in progression so survive heavy magic damage better.
Is it a buff that hunters needed? Absolutely not. But in a world where priests can't have an interrupt why not give out magic damage reduction to hunters? Makes sense to me.

The issue is that it's not raid wide, it's party wide. In M+ it will be decently useful, but that is not the kind of group utility Hunters desperately need. What Hunters need is some kind of group utility that makes them valuable in raid progression.

Make Sentinel Owl only cost one talent point, either by making the ability baseline with a choice ode on top, or remove the initial talent and make the choice node give the ability, and it will be close to the kind of utility Hunters need.

In short. If your raid group currently has no X class, you should be happy to have one added to the raid group.
When my pig doesn't have a warrior i am hally to add one for the battle shout. Same with monk and mystic touch, DH with Chaos brand, Mage with Wisdom, and priest with fortitude.

A simpel buff like those might be a bit much, but most classes are explicitly being given some form of raid utility. But Hunters are evidently not.

[Varodoc]

Let us not forget we're dealing with Blizzard, corruption would be its middle name if companies can have middle names. Jaina was pretty much personified peace, willing to sacrifice her own father to stop an all out war between humans and the newborn Horde. After MoP though? Easily the most aggressive, hateful Alliance leader up until mid BfA where she softens up a bit and Tyrande takes on the mantle.

It wouldn't be beyond Blizzard to come up with some sort of event that turns Turalyon into a fanatic zealot that wants to purge all 'dark' powers and entities from Azeroth - after all we have warlocks, demon hunters, death knights and void people walking around. Alleria might even give out quests saying her husband needs to be stopped, who knows? Or perhaps Khadgar would intervene like Kalec did when Jaina was trying to pull off a Stratholme in Orgrimmar.

And after BfA? She understood the errors of her ways, got over her trauma, redeemed herself in the eyes of her people, and became a worthy Lord Admiral of Kul Tiras. Overall, her story has a happy ending, which she deserves btw.

It wouldn't be beyond Blizzard to come up with some sort of event that turns Turalyon into a fanatic zealot that wants to purge all 'dark' powers and entities from Azeroth - after all we have warlocks, demon hunters, death knights and void people walking around. Alleria might even give out quests saying her husband needs to be stopped, who knows? Or perhaps Khadgar would intervene like Kalec did when Jaina was trying to pull off a Stratholme in Orgrimmar.

If that's your argument, "anything can happen", then it's a pointless argument. Blizzard can turn anyone into a villain, correct, so it's pointless to focus on Turalyon.

In the meantime, I would point you to Geya'rah, who clearly stated that the Alliance cities would burn. She, and Mag'har like her, definitely don't need any corruption to make genocidal threats.

[AngerFork]

It's mostly just a few people online (all Horde players ofc) still resenting SoO and wanting an Alliance counterpart in Stormwind.

It doesn't make any actual logical sense for Turalyon, the man who put aside his grudges to stop the Legion alongside the Illidari (monsters), to become a villain, nor will he actually become a villain, since they already pushed Yrel to be a villain.

Besides, as we have seen so far, Regent Turalyon is the best ruler Stormwind has had in modern years. Unlike Varian and Anduin, his reign is currently marked by several years of internal stability and peace. No doubt thanks to his advisors too, chiefly amongst them Alleria Windrunner.

For once, I find myself in full agreement with you. Turalyon has a lot of the makings of a warhawk & has already done questionable things, not to mention his talk about wanting to take back the other human kingdoms. However, he had years to start that effort & the Alliance does not appear to be currently at war with the Horde. He hasn't visibly tried to force the issue. We also saw that he's willing to learn & adjust his past views from his interaction with Alonsus Faol in Before The Storm. Plus we also have to remember that the Light's control over him seems to have faded with X'era's death. His eyes during the Rejection of the Gift cinematic show this being the case.

With that in mind, why would he suddenly go evil? He'll likely be happy to see troops from the Light with Yrel if they invade, may well even roll out the red carpet welcome to them in Stormwind at first. However, given that he's now had years of Alleria at his side balancing him again as well as Velen as an advisor who himself no longer blindly follows the Light (though he is still a follower), he's likely to be a bit more grounded & willing to fight back if they start to try to enslave or kill everyone. The main concern I see on his end (if anything) would be if Yrel talks him into renewing his vows to the Light via the efforts of another Naaru.

Calia on the other hand...I agree with Nymrohd on her being a much more likely threat. The Light specifically wanted to bring her back & used Anduin in part as a vessel to do so. She is seemingly far more under the Light's control right now than Turalyon was back then. She may seem peaceful now, but so did Yrel at one point.

[Varodoc]

For once, I find myself in full agreement with you. Turalyon has a lot of the makings of a warhawk & has already done questionable things, not to mention his talk about wanting to take back the other human kingdoms. However, he had years to start that effort & the Alliance does not appear to be currently at war with the Horde. He hasn't visibly tried to force the issue. We also saw that he's willing to learn & adjust his past views from his interaction with Alonsus Faol in Before The Storm. Plus we also have to remember that the Light's control over him seems to have faded with X'era's death. His eyes during the Rejection of the Gift cinematic show this being the case.

With that in mind, why would he suddenly go evil? He'll likely be happy to see troops from the Light with Yrel if they invade, may well even roll out the red carpet welcome to them in Stormwind at first. However, given that he's now had years of Alleria at his side balancing him again as well as Velen as an advisor who himself no longer blindly follows the Light (though he is still a follower), he's likely to be a bit more grounded & willing to fight back if they start to try to enslave or kill everyone. The main concern I see on his end (if anything) would be if Yrel talks him into renewing his vows to the Light via the efforts of another Naaru.

Calia on the other hand...I agree with Nymrohd on her being a much more likely threat. The Light specifically wanted to bring her back & used Anduin in part as a vessel to do so. She is seemingly far more under the Light's control right now than Turalyon was back then. She may seem peaceful now, but so did Yrel at one point.

I noticed something interesting actually, it's only a few people in this forum who are obsessed with the idea of Turalyon becoming a villain. Everywhere else online or in-game, he's barely brought up ever in the first place. And I keep asking myself, towards those people: "Did you guys not play Legion, not see Turalyon swallow his pride to team up with his Goddess' killer?"

Regardless, we already have a recognizable and iconic villain for the Light faction: Yrel. She and the Lightbound have already been set up as the major villains of a future Light plot to take over the Cosmos. Either Turalyon or Calia becoming villains would only deprive Yrel of the spotlight she's entitled to.

Furthermore, Yrel makes for a much better antagonist in this kind of storyline, as it adds an element of tragic that is absent with Turalyon and Calia. Yrel's connection with the Naaru was gifted to her by Velen upon his sacrifice, she replaced him as the prophet of the Naaru; and now, because of this fact, she is overwhelmed by visions of the Naaru who are sending her on a cosmic crusade. This is why Yrel works as a villain of the Light, while Turalyon is just an asspull for a very tiny, small, little vocal majority that still wants the Alliance equivalent of SoO.

[Caiphon]

And after BfA? She understood the errors of her ways, got over her trauma, redeemed herself in the eyes of her people, and became a worthy Lord Admiral of Kul Tiras. Overall, her story has a happy ending, which she deserves btw.



If that's your argument, "anything can happen", then it's a pointless argument. Blizzard can turn anyone into a villain, correct, so it's pointless to focus on Turalyon.

In the meantime, I would point you to Geya'rah, who clearly stated that the Alliance cities would burn. She, and Mag'har like her, definitely don't need any corruption to make genocidal threats.

My argument is not 'anything can happen', but rather that starting with Arthas, Blizzard has historically been fond of sending otherwise well meaning, righteous individuals spiraling down towards madness. And it's usually the important, benevolent ones for the sake of dramatic impact. Turalyon's got everything Blizzard loves for their corruption arcs - high profile (de facto leader of Stormwind and the Alliance by extension), strength of character (fought the Legion for 1000 years), benevolence (willing to work with demon hunters and whatnot) and the tiniest cracks that can be utilised to push him over the edge, such as his void-aided torture of possible informants and a slight lack of critical thinking as demonstrated when X'era imprisoned his wife, when Illidan resisted X'era's conversion etc.

As we all know by now Blizzard tends to plagiarise its own plots. BfA's Sylvanas arc was basically Garrosh 2.0, complete with the villain running off to another realm of existence and invading Azeroth from said realm. It's extremely easy to make a Jaina 2.0 out of Turalyon - just make Theramore happen again. Arator killed by void creatures, Khadgar killed by warlocks, Locus Walker controlling Alleria to blow up a part of Stormwind or something along those lines. Jaina's descent didn't lead to a world-consuming catastrophe thanks to Varian holding the reins but she certainly tried to make it happen. Turalyon doesn't have a superior in the Alliance, nobody can stop him if he's really dead serious about his crusade. The ending could be tragic (Arthas), happy (Jaina) or none of the above (Sylvanas) but the opportunity is definitely there and it's something Blizz loves to do.

On the other hand Geya'rah is certainly not expansion material, the biggest reason being she's pretty much nobody. Only a handful of Mag'har managed to land on Azeroth and with her main timeline counterpart Thrall leading the orcs there's precious little she can do. Also worth noting that she's not supported by a cosmic power and is extremely unlikely to gain the support of one - if anyone from the AU becomes a main villain (and I doubt this would happen) it'll probably be a hugely successful Yrel bringing a Light version of the Burning Crusade to Azeroth, opening the Dark Portal for the third time in WoW (sigh).

[Dracullus]

I just went through Dragon Soul thinking I could get a selfie with all the Aspects for this beta competition to discover how limited the damn selfie is. Really now, they wasted a patch developing that?

This was just some dude side project. 6.1 had some content, mostly Garrison updates like raid bosses there, but it was de facto patch 6.0.5. Main mistake there was releasing Blackrock Foundry 3 weeks earlier instead of week after patch day which would link these together in community perception.

In general WoD was just breaking point of old design with raids as only PVE progression. On top of that main hub where your AFK was your personal instance and you had good reason to stay there + no real reasons to go elsewhere. Classic confirmed how outdated it is, just look how fast hype dies after most people are done with leveling.

[Varodoc]

it'll probably be a hugely successful Yrel bringing a Light version of the Burning Crusade to Azeroth,

Which is an infinitely better storyline than villain batting the Alliance because a certain group of people are still angry about the Horde getting villain batted twice.

Both the Garrosh storyline and the Sylvanas storyline were complete and utter flops, do we want a third repeat of that, but with an Alliance character for a twist? Maybe third time's the chance?

Or maybe Blizzard should just be more conservative with their characters. Turalyon can serve his purpose to the story even if he does not become a villain; if anything, it would be much better if he didn't become a villain. While Yrel can represent the fanatical side of Light worship, the side that demands submission from everyone, Turalyon can represent the moderate side of Light worship, i.e. the side that sets aside their grudge to team up with Illidan and co. after he literally blew up their Goddess.

It's important to keep a storyline grey, not black and white. If you just show evil Light users, it's boring. If you show evil Light users, but also show GOOD Light users (Turalyon and Calia) in the same conflict, it's better.

With this being said, I don't deny that Turalyon is objectively a badass option for a villain. A paladin who was blessed by the Prime Naaru with immortality and has a profound faith in the Light, as well as a skilled tactician and accomplished military commander. He would make for an incredibly tought antagonist for the protagonists, but we already have Yrel, soooo... there's really no point in villain batting Turalyon.

If Yrel didn't exist, then sure, maybe you could argue that we need more representation of the Light acting in a villainous way (the Scarlet Crusade has been in the game since Classic btw). But, with Yrel and the Lightbound, we have enough representation of villainous Light. We don't need more.

On the other hand Geya'rah is certainly not expansion material,

She's an appointed member of the Horde Council and iirc Blizzard stated that quite a sizeable force of Mag'har crossed over into Azeroth as they even brought war beasts and iron transports with them. So she is more influential than Garrosh was when he was introduced. She already proved to the world that she is objectively morally twisted as she supported Sylvanas until the very end.

Besides, if/when Geya'rah becomes a villain, she'd obviously share the spotlight with other villains. Just look at N'Zoth, he was the literal mastermind of most conflicts in Azeroth and he still had to share the spotlight of "main villain of BfA" with Sylvanas. So, just because I'm saying it makes for Geya'rah to become a villain (as she literally said she wants to see Alliance cities burn), doesn't mean I think she should literally be the main villain of an expansion.

[Caiphon]

Both the Garrosh storyline and the Sylvanas storyline were complete and utter flops, do we want a third repeat of that, but with an Alliance character for a twist? Maybe third time's the chance?

To play the Devil's Advocate here the Sylvanas arc was a failure because it was literally a copy&paste of Garrosh's story. On the other hand Arthas' fall was a monumental success and Jaina's wasn't completely bad as you have also acknowledged. Still, I don't trust the current iteration of Blizzard to pull off an Arthas so I do not wish for a Turalyon arc anytime in the near future. I just think it's fairly likely to happen considering the decades-old obsession with corruption.

She's an appointed member of the Horde Council and iirc Blizzard stated that quite a sizeable force of Mag'har crossed over into Azeroth as they even brought war beasts and iron transports with them. So she is more influential than Garrosh was when he was introduced. She already proved to the world that she is objectively morally twisted as she supported Sylvanas until the very end.

I mean Garrosh was an absolute nobody when he was first introduced in TBC yes but by Cataclysm he was warchief, the supreme leader of the Horde. The current Horde has specifically decided against having a warchief and Geya'rah's significance in the council is fairly neglible. If she ever does attempt to stir something up it would never gain traction with Thrall being where he is, and even if we manage to make Thrall retire AGAIN we've got folks like Baine, Lor'themar and Rokhan who completely outmatch her in career, power and followers (Sylvanas, on the other hand, outmached all three). She generally doesn't have the gravitas or significance that the two rogue warchiefs had (seriously, who on earth would ever be excited to fight against Geya'rah?) and as you've pointed out even those two arcs ended up very poorly. Third time's the charm? Probably not.