1. #67241
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I still feel they should have done a better job in Shadowlands explaining the relations between the Nine, Devos, Mawsworn Kyrian and then Spirit Healers and Kyrian Watchers. I also would have liked to see what e.g. Kyrestia thinks of Odyn's scheme since he is effectively stealing souls from the Shadowlands (and souls that would mostly end up in Bastion and Maldraxus, not just random souls that would go beyond).
    So, hold on... Are the Val'kyr dead Vrykul that went to the Shadowlands and became Kyrian Watchers and then Odyn took them or did Odyn take their souls before they even went there?

  2. #67242
    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    So, hold on... Are the Val'kyr dead Vrykul that went to the Shadowlands and became Kyrian Watchers and then Odyn took them or did Odyn take their souls before they even went there?
    Val'kyr are either rogue Kyrians, Vrykul ascended by Odyn, or created by the Lich King.
    The info surrounding them has definitely been a bit confusing, but that is the gist of it as of this moment. None of the three really have anything to do with eachother beyond Odyn and the Lich King emulating Kyrians on their own.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  3. #67243
    Scarab Lord Nymrohd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    So, hold on... Are the Val'kyr dead Vrykul that went to the Shadowlands and became Kyrian Watchers and then Odyn took them or did Odyn take their souls before they even went there?
    I don't think they were even dead. He killed Helya to create a proto-Eyir; someone that can transform worthy female Vrykul into Valkyr. We see living Vrykul get transformed by Eyir during Legion (Hyrja). We don't know if Eyir sacrificed herself first to gain that power or if by that point Odyn knew how to empower an existing Valkyr to convert other mortals into one. Or maybe she was just another Titanic Watcher that was transformed just like Helya and the difference between them and other Val'kyr is the origin. Don't even know how he powers the entire process; it's not anima so is it Arcane? Is it Holy (Tyr used Holy magic after all)?
    The Valarjar however ARE created from the dead with Odyn's Valkyr circumventing Kyrian Watchers (and Spirit Healers) to judge souls AND bear them to the Halls of Valor where Odyn Ascends them.
    Last edited by Nymrohd; 2022-09-05 at 11:23 AM.

  4. #67244
    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    So, hold on... Are the Val'kyr dead Vrykul that went to the Shadowlands and became Kyrian Watchers and then Odyn took them or did Odyn take their souls before they even went there?
    The first batch of Val'kyr were unwilling Vrykul that were transformed by Odyn, through Helya, against their will, so they could bolster Odyns numbers.

    The second (and current, I guess) are trained Vrykul who are chosen by Eyir to ascend. They also kinda skip the whole "being judged" thing and take dead warriors straight to the Halls of Valor.

    The Scourge ones are entirely different, they are Vrykul twisted by the Lich King into being Val'kyr... somehow? They never really expanded upon that.

  5. #67245
    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    The first batch of Val'kyr were unwilling Vrykul that were transformed by Odyn, through Helya, against their will, so they could bolster Odyns numbers.

    The second (and current, I guess) are trained Vrykul who are chosen by Eyir to ascend. They also kinda skip the whole "being judged" thing and take dead warriors straight to the Halls of Valor.

    The Scourge ones are entirely different, they are Vrykul twisted by the Lich King into being Val'kyr... somehow? They never really expanded upon that.
    Some of the Val'kyr are presumably early rogue Kyrians. Specifically the Nine that helped Sylvanas, going by how they are dressed in Mawsworn attire and use Kyrian themed weapons.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  6. #67246
    The Insane Arafal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    So, hold on... Are the Val'kyr dead Vrykul that went to the Shadowlands and became Kyrian Watchers and then Odyn took them or did Odyn take their souls before they even went there?
    The latter.

    Odyn got the knowledge on how to create his own version of ascended by peering past the veil and making a deal with Mueh'zala.



  7. #67247
    Alright, thanks guys. I'm less confused now.

  8. #67248
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Some of the Val'kyr are presumably early rogue Kyrians. Specifically the Nine that helped Sylvanas, going by how they are dressed in Mawsworn attire and use Kyrian themed weapons.
    Dunno.

    All but two of them get resurrected as Mawsworns because they died prior, so I thought it had something to do with that.

  9. #67249
    Shadowlands lore has seriously fudged up alot of the standing lore... I hate it.

  10. #67250
    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    Dunno.

    All but two of them get resurrected as Mawsworns because they died prior, so I thought it had something to do with that.
    That is definitely a likely reason. Though it still begs the question of why they were in the employ of the Jailer from at least right after the Lich King died.
    In the end I guess it doesn't matter at all, but still interesting hat they use Kyrian weapons rather than Mawsworn ones.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  11. #67251
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Some of the Val'kyr are presumably early rogue Kyrians. Specifically the Nine that helped Sylvanas, going by how they are dressed in Mawsworn attire and use Kyrian themed weapons.
    no
    odyn saw the kyrian and jacked their style for his new homeboys

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiriastrasza View Post
    Shadowlands lore has seriously fudged up alot of the standing lore... I hate it.
    but the lore is so rich and amazing
    dreadlords arent demons they are beings from the shadowlands hence why they revived in argus...like a demon...
    well the jailer sent the legion to azeroth by giving them the helm and blade of domination to...get a servant on a planet he already had servants on
    the eternal ones united to stop him and when the drought happened...fought each other because...drought??
    but sylvanas would never serve the jailer and hated arthas so she...became arthas and served the jailer

  12. #67252
    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Man View Post
    but the lore is so rich and amazing
    dreadlords arent demons they are beings from the shadowlands hence why they revived in argus...like a demon...
    well the jailer sent the legion to azeroth by giving them the helm and blade of domination to...get a servant on a planet he already had servants on
    the eternal ones united to stop him and when the drought happened...fought each other because...drought??
    but sylvanas would never serve the jailer and hated arthas so she...became arthas and served the jailer
    Sounds like you never bothered to even check what the lore is, so you're hardly qualified to comment on it.

  13. #67253
    Herald of the Titans Lady Atia's Avatar
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    Anyone else stuck at lvl 68 on the Beta?^^ Guess I have to do quite a few side quests now?

  14. #67254
    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Man View Post
    no
    odyn saw the kyrian and jacked their style for his new homeboys

    - - - Updated - - -



    but the lore is so rich and amazing
    dreadlords arent demons they are beings from the shadowlands hence why they revived in argus...like a demon...
    well the jailer sent the legion to azeroth by giving them the helm and blade of domination to...get a servant on a planet he already had servants on
    the eternal ones united to stop him and when the drought happened...fought each other because...drought??
    but sylvanas would never serve the jailer and hated arthas so she...became arthas and served the jailer
    It's long been established that most demons turned INTO demons, they weren't simply made demons. Dreadlords are demons because they accepted the fel, but they weren't demons prior to that.

  15. #67255
    Scarab Lord Nymrohd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gurkan View Post
    It's long been established that most demons turned INTO demons, they weren't simply made demons. Dreadlords are demons because they accepted the fel, but they weren't demons prior to that.
    It is weird that Sargeras who was specialized in dealing with demons and the Fel did not realize those were not demons yet (since at that point they were conferring with the Void, not Fel). Also weird how the Eredar, most gifted magic users in the universe, never realized what the nathrezim were doing to Argus' soul.

  16. #67256
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    It is weird that Sargeras who was specialized in dealing with demons and the Fel did not realize those were not demons yet (since at that point they were conferring with the Void, not Fel). Also weird how the Eredar, most gifted magic users in the universe, never realized what the nathrezim were doing to Argus' soul.
    As long as the Nathrezim used the soul to make the demons regenerate faster in the nether, I doubt the Eredar would care.

  17. #67257
    Scarab Lord Nymrohd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gurkan View Post
    As long as the Nathrezim used the soul to make the demons regenerate faster in the nether, I doubt the Eredar would care.
    You think Kil'jaeden would not at least be curious about what they were doing?

  18. #67258
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    You think Kil'jaeden would not at least be curious about what they were doing?
    I think they were pretty clear with what they were doing, they were using his soul to speed up the process of regeneration.

  19. #67259
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    It is weird that Sargeras who was specialized in dealing with demons and the Fel did not realize those were not demons yet (since at that point they were conferring with the Void, not Fel). Also weird how the Eredar, most gifted magic users in the universe, never realized what the nathrezim were doing to Argus' soul.
    Remember what Magni says when you get there? They likely had no idea the Nathrezim were doing anything with it.

  20. #67260
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    You think Kil'jaeden would not at least be curious about what they were doing?
    There is no lore that says he didnt. We barely know anything about the inner workings and drama of the legion.

    Far as we know sargeras and archi and killyj knew everything about thr nathrezim and so long as they got what THEY wanted it didnt matter. If u find out you have a double agent one option is keep em around and use that to your advantage.

    And then there is the fact that the nathrezim seem UNIQUELY gifted in magical subterfuge. The books suggest the lightnound one might be a traitor to the army of light.

    So its really silly to have a blatant example of how a nathrezim can be magically transmuted into a being from a different magical aspect and then suggest its counter to the lore that sargy didnt know they werent demons.

    You might as well say "well he doesnt LOOK like an orc , so maybe that changeling isnt him". Their entire scticht is disguise. If that guy can become a light elemental version of himself and work with them for a thousand years then surely some demonic looking creaturs that are masters of shadowmagic can pretend to be fel. In fact the legion ones probably are. Elf biology is extremely suseptible to elemental changes, why not a race specifically crafted to be?
    Romance doesnt detract from a story. Its a Genre, like horror or comedy or adventure. The game was ruined when we got Horror in drustvar or nazmir. It wasnt ruined when we had funny quests. So if you think a little man on man love ruins the game, then yes you are either a homophobe or just a spoil sport that goes "ewww kissing is yucky" like a baby. Furthermore, if a character has never expressed interest in any gender, then its not proof they are straight. straight people are not the default

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