Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Nymrohd]

Nah you're not biased, having an entire story set in another plane of existence is almost never a good idea in an RPG and anyone who's every played an epic level campaign in D&D can testify to this.

I feel personally attacked by this comment.

[Makorus]

I do not want mythic+/raiding removed. I want other game modes added. Solo players as like small group players should have gearing progression as well. Not just premade groups.

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Well, i do not shit on the game, i actually was a fan for a long time. I laugh about the developer decisions. Their bias. Their stupid decisions they do based on a rotten morality where gate keeping gearing progression and limiting it to a few is reality. Where Afrasiabi was game director for a long time. Where the devs believe they can ignore 70% or more of their players because.. well.. nostalgia? Or because the devs think "playing with friends" is all that matters while most of their players use matchmaking? They do stupid decisions based on their "vision" and their "bias", which is literally all about gatekeeping gearing progression for a few.

I criticize their stupidity and argument why i think they act stupid. And they deserve that criticism. And they deserve to be blunt. I neither can be their bootlicker, nor will i ever understand bootlickers which think they can change the world by crawling up the developers asses.

Look, I don't wanna argue with you, because frankly, there's no point, because you wouldn't be happy even if Blizzard gave you 5000 ilvl gear for killing a worldboss and it didn't have a lockout, but here's some advice:

MMOs are not for you. Of course the thing that incentivizes actual group content is gonna give the best reward.

[Teriz]

I just recently got into the Beta and I can't really say enough positive things about Dragonriding. It adds a quality of immersion to travel in the Dragon Isles that's really lacking with normal mounts, and really opens up travel in a way I didn't really expect from the description. Traveling from hub to hub or quest area to quest area in WoW is a kind of mindless, time-consuming task that feels like dead air, but Dragonriding makes it a mini-game in and of itself, giving the feeling that you're always participating with the game systems even when you're just traveling to the next locale to complete a brace of quests. I'm just midway through the leveling arc at current, so I don't know how end-game Dragonriding will shape up - but so far, it's been a blast from what I initially felt was going to be a more gimmicky part of [i]Dragonflight[i]'s new systems.

I've been very interested in Dragonriding and the perks that come along with it. Nice to hear that it's fun to use.

[Makabreska]

Well, i do not shit on the game, i actually was a fan for a long time. I laugh about the developer decisions. Their bias. Their stupid decisions they do based on a rotten morality where gate keeping gearing progression and limiting it to a few is reality. Where Afrasiabi was game director for a long time. Where the devs believe they can ignore 70% or more of their players because.. well.. nostalgia? Or because the devs think "playing with friends" is all that matters while most of their players use matchmaking? They do stupid decisions based on their "vision" and their "bias", which is literally all about gatekeeping gearing progression for a few.

I criticize their stupidity and argument why i think they act stupid. And they deserve that criticism. And they deserve to be blunt. I neither can be their bootlicker, nor will i ever understand bootlickers which think they can change the world by crawling up the developers asses.

And then you bring some dumb takes about "rotten morality" (LOL) in game development considering group/solo content. "Devs are biased", "they ignore 70% of player base", "best gear being in Mythic is gatekeeping". You are literally made of bad takes you have been spewing entire year, combined with statistics pulled out of thin air.

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The bigger problem is you do not really understand what i want. I do not want "ilevel 5000" welfare epics. I want gearing progression for solo players and small group players. For matchmade groups.

No one really cares what you want at this point. You really exhausted everyone here with your posts.

[Revamp Man]

Seems you did not understand me as well. I never said "best gear being in mythic is gatekeeping". I talk about giving gearing progression in premade groups only (that only part is the most interesting part) is gatekeeping. I would not care a shit about what gear mythic raids drop as long i had my own gearing progression in my gameplay.

ZM had gear progression for solo players
Could even get gear

But you said the rewards weren't good enough

[Foolicious]

Sorry that the community has been collectively telling them it was bad & they should remove it for ten whole years.

Collectively is not the right statement. There are a lot of people and a lot of big names that thought keeping it or introducing it "blizzlike" with icc would be better for the game.

I don't mind it being removed, but i think its stupid to remove it and then introduce a worse system to replace it.

[huth]

Well, i do not shit on the game

You barely do anything else. You seem to be under the rather strong delusion you have some sort of point, when all you do is piss and moan about made up issues and contradicting your own claims.

[FelPlague]

I've been very interested in Dragonriding and the perks that come along with it. Nice to hear that it's fun to use.

ive legit just had a couple hours here and there every week where i just say fuck it and fly around for a couple hours mining.
Not cause i need minerals, but because it is fun to fly around and look for unique mineral nodes.

[Makabreska]

Well, you are welcome to counter my points with arguments rather than general ad hominem statements.

You got countered plenty in this thread in the past, but all you did was ignore it with made up statistics and asinine arguments. So I don't think anyone cares about convincing you any more. You joined a prestigious group of people who keep shitting on the game while thinking they stand for something, but all they do is annoy everyone else. Congratz.

[Makabreska]

Well, counter the statistics. Show they are made up. You did nothing of that.

Because as I said, it was already done. And you ignored it. So no one gonna bother repeating it to a guy living in denial. Keep crusading and searching for "moral rot" in WoW game design.

[FelPlague]

You got countered plenty in this thread in the past, but all you did was ignore it with made up statistics and asinine arguments. So I don't think anyone cares about convincing you any more. You joined a prestigious group of people who keep shitting on the game while thinking they stand for something, but all they do is annoy everyone else. Congratz.

It is cantrip, don't bother.

[Luck4]

The problem here is Blizzard's "all or nothing" approach. There is no middle ground for them. Overdose of daily quests - no daily quests. Overdose of borrowed power / AP grind - no borrowed power / AP grind. Overdose of features - no / barely any features.

If they would, after all these years, find a middle ground in their game design, people would definitely complain less. But they seem incapable of doing that and I don't know why.

While I agree to some extent, I'm completely against Borrowed Power with daily grind attached to it, like Artifact Weapons/Azerite, a weekly locked system like Renown without covenants, soulbinds, and conduits, I can live with.

Borrowed Power such as we had in Legion/Battle for Azeroth/Shadowlands did more harm than good to this game, and hope they never bring it back.

[Shadochi]

While I agree to some extent, I'm completely against Borrowed Power with daily grind attached to it, like Artifact Weapons/Azerite, a weekly locked system like Renown without covenants, soulbinds, and conduits, I can live with.

Borrowed Power such as we had in Legion/Battle for Azeroth/Shadowlands did more harm than good to this game, and hope they never bring it back.

IMO it doesn't matter if the Borrowed Power is attached to a grind like in those expansions. I am fine with borrowed power in terms of items sets, legendary, trinket and such, which is expected to be replaced, but the systems those expansions had could never be lasting and are more of a class ability testing ground that wont last probably, and on top of that 2 out of 3 had really bad endless grinds attached to them (SL being the one that didn't)3

I don't want any form of BP except the stuff I mentioned which has been part of the game since the start.

Wonder if they will keep the systems for gearing from SL season 3 (Create tier pieces) and season 4 (Dinar system). I suspect that while creating tier might carry over, the coin to purchase pieces wont because it was probably added because of a weekly rotation of raids.

[Luck4]

The fact is, we already have plenty of content on this game if you do enjoy most of them like me:

• Pet Battle alone is a huge time sink if taken seriously;
• Mythic Plus alone can take all your free time;
• Mythic Raiding Prep. and Progress another huge time sink;
• PVP activities Arena/RBGs;
• World Content for completionists trying to get every Transmog, Pet, Mount, or Toy, from Rares/Quests/Events;
• Old Content for Former and New players: Transmogs and Mounts from older raids/dungeons;
• Achievements;

Literally, any activity that I listed above can take nearly all your free time if taken seriously, and unlike EVERY SINGLE ACTIVITY listed above, Borrowed Power adds nothing of value to your character since it's straight-up removed once the expansion end.

Borrowed Power philosophy applied to other activities in-game would be the same as removing your mounts, CE/AOTC, achievements, pets, toys, and transmogs, that you got from a given expansion once it ends. Borrowed Power is not bad, it's TERRIBLE!

[Nymrohd]

IMO it doesn't matter if the Borrowed Power is attached to a grind like in those expansions. I am fine with borrowed power in terms of items sets, legendary, trinket and such, which is expected to be replaced, but the systems those expansions had could never be lasting and are more of a class ability testing ground that wont last probably, and on top of that 2 out of 3 had really bad endless grinds attached to them (SL being the one that didn't)3

I don't want any form of BP except the stuff I mentioned which has been part of the game since the start.

Wonder if they will keep the systems for gearing from SL season 3 (Create tier pieces) and season 4 (Dinar system). I suspect that while creating tier might carry over, the coin to purchase pieces wont because it was probably added because of a weekly rotation of raids.

Honestly I think borrowed power can work just fine as long as

a) It's one system per expansion, not two or three
b) There is no infinite grind

Covenants were not problematic in Shadowlands because they were borrowed power, they were problematic because they were a hard choice. Like imagine a scenario where Legion had ONLY artifacts or BfA had ONLY essences. AP was still there but it has a weekly cap which rolled on to the next week and kept the catch up mechanics so you effectively never fell behind as long as you played a bit (a bit, not did multiple Maw runs per day). Or you could switch Covenants on day one in Shadowlands (which would have been such an interesting system since you'd actually have to work on Renown a bit to keep them all even instead of being done every Wednesday after 30mins of gametime).

[FelPlague]

The problem here is Blizzard's "all or nothing" approach. There is no middle ground for them. Overdose of daily quests - no daily quests. Overdose of borrowed power / AP grind - no borrowed power / AP grind. Overdose of features - no / barely any features.

If they would, after all these years, find a middle ground in their game design, people would definitely complain less. But they seem incapable of doing that and I don't know why.

Nah the only problem here is you.
The only good borrowed power is NO borrowed power.

[hulkgor]

People hating on borrowed power, yet praising and asking for tier set bonuses.

Oh, the irony.

MMO-C discussions can really get dumb so often.

[Luck4]

Honestly I think borrowed power can work just fine as long as

a) It's one system per expansion, not two or three
b) There is no infinite grind

The problem is that every Borrowed Power is designed around either endless or huge DAILY time sink, Shadowlands made us do Korthia and Maw every day for months to get conduits and sockets, leaving alone Torghast farm to craft legos, raising Renown for other covenants, and upgrading shards in 9.1. You just need a couple of minutes to remember a bit more about 9.0/9.1 and the borrowed power stuff rapidly stacks up.

I'm a Mythic raider, and I remember back in 9.0/9.1 that I wanted to do plenty of optional activities, but I couldn't because I needed to waste 2 f-ing hours every single day doing maw/korthia.

[Nymrohd]

Nah the only problem here is you.
The only good borrowed power is NO borrowed power.

Tier sets are borrowed power. Strong trinkets or other items with specials are borrowed power. Heck all power is borrowed cause it will get reset next xpac when all your stats will be devalued after 5-6 new levels.

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The problem is that every Borrowed Power is designed around either endless or huge DAILY time sink, Shadowlands made us do Korthia and Maw every day for months to get conduits and sockets, leaving alone Torghast farm to craft legos, raising Renown for other covenants, and upgrading shards in 9.1. You just need a couple of minutes to remember a bit more about 9.0/9.1 and the borrowed power stuff rapidly stacks up.

I'm a Mythic raider, and I remember back in 9.0/9.1 that I wanted to do plenty of optional activities, but I couldn't because I needed to waste 2 f-ing hours every single day doing maw/korthia.

Yup, pretty much. I have no idea why they thought that was a good design. You want to give players a reason to play your game but not repeat things so much that they burn out. I am not saying there should be no rewards for playing a lot but make them horizontal like e.g. doing 8+ M+ dungeons for the Vault giving you a third slot of loot. And that was the problem with the other xpacs. Legion had the grind very much be infinite and fairly rewarding for every rank. BfA just kept adding new systems you had to work with as did SL.

[Ersula]

Tier sets are borrowed power. Strong trinkets or other items with specials are borrowed power. Heck all power is borrowed cause it will get reset next xpac when all your stats will be devalued after 5-6 new levels.

Borrowed power isn't a problem in itself, the problem is more that these is a complete absence of non-borrowed power. The proper balance is giving players new exciting abilities every expansion & taking away the underused ones.

Bringing back a ton of nostalgic abilities in Shadowlands was a bad idea. Right now it seems they're in the opposite mindset, we've already seen a ton of completely new dragonflight abilities disappear before it even comes out. Priest had a ton of new active abilities revealed & they're already gone. Just to bring back Shadow Covenant? Boo.