1. #67461
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    No, the big problem of borrowed power was that you farmed something that got tossed away the next expansion without giving you anything. Again, atleast with tier sets / gear you keep the transmog, which wasn't the case for artifact power / azerite stuff / soulbinds. All in all, your precious borrowed power was just a big waste of time that made people play less alts than they would have liked to because the barrier of entry was too big. Horrible design, and I hope we will never get it again.
    With Artifacts, you got to keep the exact same thing.

  2. #67462
    The Lightbringer Lady Atia's Avatar
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    The Rumour Tower
    Posts
    3,641
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    With Artifacts, you got to keep the exact same thing.
    Well, kinda. Collecting the artifact transmogs had nothing to do with the artifact power grind, and you got nothing for your grinded artifact levels once the expansion was over. Also yeah, if they kept Artifact weapons you would have had a similiar thing as with tier sets, but they replaced it with BfA/Shadowlands stuff that didn't even have cosmetics with their borrowed power ...

    #TEAMGIRAFFE

  3. #67463
    Quote Originally Posted by cantrip View Post
    No gearing system is "solid" if you do not need gear to progress to higher levels of your gameplay.
    So progressing past ZM makes ZM gearing bad? A progression based system, wich literally every game is built upon some form of progression is bad then since progressing passed something makes it bad. This is just silly talk dude come on.

    I think in all honesty they should have increased the amount of recourses you could get in ZM over time rather then leaving it as it is. Because outgearing ZM is kinda the point isnt it? Killing the final boss of the expansion requires better gear then 239 epics. Well it should anyway...

  4. #67464
    Because premade group play is the only way you can make hard content.

    Solo Content is incredibly, incredibly hard to balance and simply not worth it.

    Matchmade Content is impossible to make difficult because of the nature of it. There's not a single game that has matchmade content that is actually hard.

    Please humour me though, once again, and tell me your amazing idea for Solo-oriented gear progression that doesn't invalidate every other way to gear (and why do you even need that gear anyway)

  5. #67465
    Features are content.
    Apples are fruit.
    I will not reply to posts that are non-constructive or contain flaming and/or trolling.

  6. #67466
    Quote Originally Posted by cantrip View Post
    Once again, the question is if you need gear or either skill to master a higher level of the same gameplay. And ZM only has one level. It does not matter if better gear enabled you to mindlessly aoe grind instead of being careful. And hey, you do not really want to tell me you are not able to AOE down mobs with green gear in ZM, or do you?

    - - - Updated - - -



    No gearing system is "solid" if you do not need gear to progress to higher levels of your gameplay.
    I know for a fact you can't aoe the mobs in Northern ZM in greens

    Stop masking your want for easy ilvl gains by claiming its for the people

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Zereth Mortis' gear system was solid, it's only issue was that you could grind it out too fast/it had a low cap.
    I was OK with the speed but I agree the ilvl should have been higher

  7. #67467
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Which is a very new change. From Vanilla till Legion when we had tier sets, they have always been borrowed power, accessible only through raids and through RNG, substantial gains in power that were only there for patch, so substantial that they often had to be nerfed in the following patch and even then in Legion so many specs used TWO tier sets at once. Heck BfA sort of kept the concept with the raids having unique Azerite traits on their gear that were very powerful and were borrowed power upon borrowed power.

    I will keep on saying, the problem was not borrowed power it was how it was acquired/restrictions on top of it/multiple systems at once. The three expansions that had max level progression systems outside gear all had multiple instances of the problems above. Instead of throwing away a concept that was never really tested in a simple format, we could actually try a more simple version of it for once.
    The classes need to not be designed around borrowed power
    In BfA they were for azerite
    In Legion they were for the weapons
    In SL the borrowed power was actually so generic that in many cases it didn't matter
    Now we actually get the first system of a permanent power progression in almost a decade and it is a system that will be grown upon while also allowing depth in choices instead of "you will fill this out"
    Having a working class then adding something on top

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by cantrip View Post
    I am sure you can do it if you practice a little bit more.



    My whole existence on this forum is about asking for real gearing progression for every player, be it solo players, small group players or matchmade group players, rather than feeding them welfare epics. Come back to me if you even remotely understand what i talk about.
    Pull 3 packs in Northern ZM with greens and get back to me

  8. #67468
    @Marlamin
    Tell me that there is little bit of hope that we can get BG in DF and it's different kind of BG, not capture point or flag

  9. #67469
    Quote Originally Posted by cantrip View Post
    No. What i mean is that distinct gameplay which should be a full progression path without a working gearing progression is bad.

    Imagine world content with 15 different difficulties. As like in D3, where you need gear from normal difficulty to enable you to master hard difficulty. And where you get gear from hard difficulty to become able to master nightmare difficulty.

    Blizzards biggest mistake ever was to force players of distinct gameplay into other gameplay. Raiders (or even worse pvp players) have to play quests. Questers have to play raids to see the final blow to the current big baddie. Part of that mistake was to give real gearing progression from premade group play only.


    Gearing in D3 is incredibly bad just very linear.. So you finally managed to get full ancient items, nice here you go now its time to go and get primal ancient items.....D3 and wow cannot be compared at all, the amount of content availible in wow compared to D3 is insane and thats saying something seeing how many people complain about little to do in wow.

    You are not being forced into anything, its not like you HAVE to go and progress your character.. You dont need raid gear to quest or do ZM farming. So if you keep going to progress your character its because you choose that so you can do other things like raid and mythic+. If you feel forced, then just stop and do your dailies instead....

  10. #67470
    I have entered so many competitions this time and it seems I might break my streak and miss this beta

  11. #67471
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I have entered so many competitions this time and it seems I might break my streak and miss this beta
    The problem is there is such a small number of keys being given away with so many people trying to get them :/
    Battletag: Chris#23952 (EU)
    Warlock

  12. #67472
    Quote Originally Posted by Black Rider View Post
    @Marlamin
    Tell me that there is little bit of hope that we can get BG in DF and it's different kind of BG, not capture point or flag
    I have absolutely no idea

  13. #67473
    What kind of BG style do we not have though? Battle Royale i guess?
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  14. #67474
    Elemental Lord Makabreska's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Streets Strange by Moonlight
    Posts
    8,843
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    What kind of BG style do we not have though? Battle Royale i guess?
    Moba. They attempted in MoP, but gave up.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  15. #67475
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    What kind of BG style do we not have though? Battle Royale i guess?
    That Dota battleground they never finished because HoTS was in development. And now its not? Perhaps?

  16. #67476
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    That Dota battleground they never finished because HoTS was in development. And now its not? Perhaps?
    I'm pretty sure the bigger problem was that they couldn't figure out a good way of making it work in the context of WoW.

  17. #67477
    Epic! Merryck's Avatar
    5+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Seat of the Pantheon
    Posts
    1,730
    How long have the servers been down?

  18. #67478
    Quote Originally Posted by Merryck View Post
    How long have the servers been down?
    PTR? Think they went down a bit ago. Beta is still up as of this post.

  19. #67479
    The Insane Raetary's Avatar
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Base Camp
    Posts
    19,376
    I don't get why new Bgs *must* have new mechanics.

    I'd be satisfied with more arathi-like bgs.
    Or more simple capture the flag maps.


    Formerly known as Arafal

  20. #67480
    Elemental Lord
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    8,458
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I have entered so many competitions this time and it seems I might break my streak and miss this beta
    Just bad luck, small cheer up is that you are not missing out much, no need to be sad. Just go play on the ptr and toy around with talents. If done just take a break or something.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    I don't get why new Bgs *must* have new mechanics.

    I'd be satisfied with more arathi-like bgs.
    Or more simple capture the flag maps.
    Good for you that you are satisfied with the same old, but we have seen those, its not weird many would love to see a new mode and it would be a welcome addition imo.

    I quite liked the (isle of conquest?) Bg maybe i got the name wrong, but it had fun gameplay, but it was removed. I rather see that new bg removed.. which is one of the worst we ever got.
    Last edited by Alanar; 2022-09-21 at 08:29 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •