1. #67461
    Someone pointed out that the ancient DRAKkari empire looks like both Northrend and Dragon Isles. Maybe they are the "primordial trolls" and that's why Ice is being built up as an elemental force and not water?

    If Storm and Fire are the big elements at launch, and we're probably getting an Earth themed zone (Underground) then it could stand to reason we get an ice patch.

  2. #67462
    Scarab Lord Nymrohd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2022
    Location
    Greece
    Posts
    4,043
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Yet, mysteries eventually have to be solved, its not just there just for "OOOOH wonder what it is." Whenever we discover it yes I'm going to be curious about what it is not hiding behind this weird keep it mysterious nonsense.
    I don't really agree that mysteries need to be solved. You can have plausible explanations given for mysteries, only for alternative interpretation to follow at a later point.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Btw something separate, I wonder when these Primalists recruited? I guess the time skip allowed remnants of the Twilight Hammer to coalesce around this new goal? But who gathered them up and gave them the information about the Incarnates?

  3. #67463
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    And they established exactly what you want with the First Ones just this Expansion.
    Which isn't interesting. Its literally just the titans lore bumped up an order of magnitude to adjust to a bigger cosmic scale. But with being more removed from the core story and lacking the more intricate interactions the titans had with Azeroth.

  4. #67464
    Stood in the Fire Berkilak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    The Green Chapel
    Posts
    454
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    And they established exactly what you want with the First Ones just this Expansion.
    You have a habit of telling people what they want and what their opinions are. Be cognizant of that.

    And the First Ones are functionally no different from the role the Titans used to play. They replaced a mystery with the exact same mystery, which does credit to neither subject.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    You need world building though so its needed and just ignoring the Dwemer in your reason is just lost potential. Eventually people will want to know so no. The fact we explored the Shadowlands isn't a bad thing
    World building is necessary, but it should never be a goal unto itself. It does best when it rewards the people that are paying the closest attention, piecing background details together to form a narrative. Most hardcore fans of the Elder Scrolls likely have a pretty good idea of what happened to the Dwemer - that doesn't mean that it's not a mystery, though. And it doesn't mean that narrative needs to take center stage.

  5. #67465
    Herald of the Titans Lady Atia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    The Rumour Tower
    Posts
    2,622
    Quote Originally Posted by Berkilak View Post
    You have a habit of telling people what they want and what their opinions are. Be cognizant of that.

    And the First Ones are functionally no different from the role the Titans used to play. They replaced a mystery with the exact same mystery, which does credit to neither subject.

    - - - Updated - - -



    World building is necessary, but it should never be a goal unto itself. It does best when it rewards the people that are paying the closest attention, piecing background details together to form a narrative. Most hardcore fans of the Elder Scrolls likely have a pretty good idea of what happened to the Dwemer - that doesn't mean that it's not a mystery, though. And it doesn't mean that narrative needs to take center stage.
    What a bunch of bullshit. "The Horus Heresy", one of the best narratives based on "myths" of it's setting proves that you can explore worldbuilding and use it as the core narrative since you will always have new "stuff that's kept vague and waiting to be explored". And there is nothing wrong with having stuff being in your face .... not everything needs to be "pieced together by background details".

    At the end of the day, you just seem to dislike stuff based on "myths" because you pictured them better in your head, which is fine, but well ... doesn't mean the story is bad per se.
    Last edited by Lady Atia; 2022-09-09 at 01:52 PM.

  6. #67466
    Scarab Lord Nymrohd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2022
    Location
    Greece
    Posts
    4,043
    So on Gear Progression in Dragonflight.

    Seems that the raid doesn't have a set ilvl for most bosses. Rather there is a large range of ilvls from the first to the final boss. E.g. Mythic Eranog is 424, Mythic Terros (the next one) is 427, Mythic Dathea is 431 and Diurna is 434. I have no idea how that is supposed to make sense. It effectively makes earlier bosses irrelevant faster. And this is a small raid to being with.

    As for professions, there seems to be a bit of timegating with Spark of Ingenuity coming from the Tyrhold area from a quest (that seems to not be repeatable so weekly? Daily?)
    My question is where does Primal Chaos drop? Does it drop just in instances or also from Elites in Elite areas or from World Quests? If you are up for a lot of grinding, primal chaos gives you Primal Infusion which is used to craft mid Heroic Ilvl gear (414 so the ilvl of the 2nd-4th Vault bosses). Given people can exchange Primal Chaos to buy potions from the new cauldrons, I somehow doubt it will be a very limited resource.

  7. #67467
    Herald of the Titans Lady Atia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    The Rumour Tower
    Posts
    2,622
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    So on Gear Progression in Dragonflight.

    Seems that the raid doesn't have a set ilvl for most bosses. Rather there is a large range of ilvls from the first to the final boss. E.g. Mythic Eranog is 424, Mythic Terros (the next one) is 427, Mythic Dathea is 431 and Diurna is 434. I have no idea how that is supposed to make sense. It effectively makes earlier bosses irrelevant faster. And this is a small raid to being with.

    As for professions, there seems to be a bit of timegating with Spark of Ingenuity coming from the Tyrhold area from a quest (that seems to not be repeatable so weekly? Daily?)
    My question is where does Primal Chaos drop? Does it drop just in instances or also from Elites in Elite areas or from World Quests? If you are up for a lot of grinding, primal chaos gives you Primal Infusion which is used to craft mid Heroic Ilvl gear (414 so the ilvl of the 2nd-4th Vault bosses). Given people can exchange Primal Chaos to buy potions from the new cauldrons, I somehow doubt it will be a very limited resource.
    I'll check out the raid ilvl's in a second, but my first thought was that this may be how they intend to nerf the raid? Basically giving you better and better loot the farther you go, while the entire thing may be tuned to be doable with the lowest tier of ilvl?

  8. #67468
    Scarab Lord Nymrohd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2022
    Location
    Greece
    Posts
    4,043
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    I'll check out the raid ilvl's in a second, but my first thought was that this may be how they intend to nerf the raid? Basically giving you better and better loot the farther you go, while the entire thing may be tuned to be doable with the lowest tier of ilvl?
    Well for any guild that progresses reasonably slow, this just means early bosses are pointless. I did not check but the last two bosses better drop weapons for everyone . . . I think they tried this experiment before and people loathed it and it never went live?

  9. #67469
    Herald of the Titans Lady Atia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    The Rumour Tower
    Posts
    2,622
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Well for any guild that progresses reasonably slow, this just means early bosses are pointless. I did not check but the last two bosses better drop weapons for everyone . . . I think they tried this experiment before and people loathed it and it never went live?
    So I just went on Beta and it surely feels a bit weird - most tier pieces are as low as the loot from the first boss for example. Last two bosses seem to drop enough weapons for everyone though from what I see at a glance.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also, why are earlier bosses pointless? Goal of a raid is to kill bosses, loot is just what enables you to do that.

  10. #67470
    Scarab Lord Nymrohd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2022
    Location
    Greece
    Posts
    4,043
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    Also, why are earlier bosses pointless? Goal of a raid is to kill bosses, loot is just what enables you to do that.
    Goal of a raid on progress is to kill bosses. And if you progress super fast it's never an issue. If you take 2-3 months to clear the raid though, the first few bosses soon become farm. They are bosses the raid has already killed and is just spending time killing again. At that point, you very much are just killing them for the loot you need to kill the ones you are still progressing on. The moment that loot is useless for almost everyone in the raid except that one rogue who still needs a trinket, you have drama. Especially if skips are available.

  11. #67471
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    So I just went on Beta and it surely feels a bit weird - most tier pieces are as low as the loot from the first boss for example. Last two bosses seem to drop enough weapons for everyone though from what I see at a glance.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also, why are earlier bosses pointless? Goal of a raid is to kill bosses, loot is just what enables you to do that.
    Might end up clashing with M+, where you will likely be able to get consistent ilvl.

    In a vacuum it should be fine, even if it would be problematic depending on where the most impactful items drop.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  12. #67472
    Scarab Lord Nymrohd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2022
    Location
    Greece
    Posts
    4,043
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Might end up clashing with M+, where you will likely be able to get consistent ilvl.

    In a vacuum it should be fine, even if it would be problematic depending on where the most impactful items drop.
    Just looks like a needless complication, that's all. Add the crafted gear having varying ilvls and that's just a mess.

  13. #67473
    Herald of the Titans Lady Atia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    The Rumour Tower
    Posts
    2,622
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Goal of a raid on progress is to kill bosses. And if you progress super fast it's never an issue. If you take 2-3 months to clear the raid though, the first few bosses soon become farm. They are bosses the raid has already killed and is just spending time killing again. At that point, you very much are just killing them for the loot you need to kill the ones you are still progressing on. The moment that loot is useless for almost everyone in the raid except that one rogue who still needs a trinket, you have drama. Especially if skips are available.
    Mhm, groups can always just reactivate their past weeks raid lock if no one needs loot of farm bosses anymore, and that's how my guild atleast plays the last mythic bosses anyways. And if there is still loot for someone it shouldn't become an issue to farm that item for them - I remember all the painsmith re-kills just for our dh's for example. Also with skips you usually can kill the last bosses and than go back and kill boss XY who drops that trinket if people still didn't have it in their weekly vaults.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Just looks like a needless complication, that's all. Add the crafted gear having varying ilvls and that's just a mess.
    Idk, it feels a bit like they are trying to keep a nice ilvl curve through a raid - Shadowlands already did that with the last bosses and it felt super good so I don't mind a middle tier in ilvl's for the middle bosses either.

  14. #67474
    Legendary! Makabreska's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Streets Strange by Moonlight
    Posts
    6,721
    The future is now bois! They added a boat timer!

    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  15. #67475
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    The future is now bois! They added a boat timer!
    I can't get over how horrific the weird twink Asian MMO look is for the visage form.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

    Tinkers will be the next Class confirmed.

  16. #67476
    Legendary! Makabreska's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Streets Strange by Moonlight
    Posts
    6,721
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    I can't get over how horrific the weird twink Asian MMO look is for the visage form.
    Ye, ye. Some people will never get over this topic.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  17. #67477
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Btw something separate, I wonder when these Primalists recruited? I guess the time skip allowed remnants of the Twilight Hammer to coalesce around this new goal? But who gathered them up and gave them the information about the Incarnates?
    We see Twilight's Hammer distinct from the Primalists and their goals don't really have much to spring off from. The Primalists want to go bvck to the elemental origin of Azeroth and away from the Titans' design but do intend for that world to then exist. It's unclear if they even want to go that far and if it isn't a Dragon-exclusive bit. The Hammer are a doomsday cult.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

    Tinkers will be the next Class confirmed.

  18. #67478
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Ye, ye. Some people will never get over this topic.
    Yea..true, but its very hard to unsee sadly.

  19. #67479
    Over 9000! Lahis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    9,499
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    Someone pointed out that the ancient DRAKkari empire looks like both Northrend and Dragon Isles. Maybe they are the "primordial trolls" and that's why Ice is being built up as an elemental force and not water?

    If Storm and Fire are the big elements at launch, and we're probably getting an Earth themed zone (Underground) then it could stand to reason we get an ice patch.
    Ice is used for water element because it is easier to manifest on dry land and frost breath looks and feels mlre dangerious than a dragon spitting on you.

  20. #67480
    Legendary! Makabreska's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Streets Strange by Moonlight
    Posts
    6,721
    New ilvl loot progression in Vault of Incarnates.

    https://www.wowhead.com/news/loot-it...28771#comments

    Pretty ok with this. Less emphasis put on last 2-3 bosses.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •