1. #67501
    Scarab Lord Nymrohd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    It will be interesting to see how it feels in practice.
    In theory it should give a strong incentive to push forwards, but in practice it might end up feeling horrible if you get drops from the first boss while the rest of the group gets all the good items from the later bosses.
    Even if its only a negligible difference in thorughout, it would still feel bad to get stuff from earlier in the raid where the weaker items are, especially if you primarily gear you through raids.
    I remember that they considered it before and did not go through with it but cannot remember when.

  2. #67502
    I was discussing this item level increase with a friend earlier today and we would both enjoy seeing it happen at the condition that item level upgrade for raid gear is implemented as well.

    The thing is that I don't want an extra currency for this. Having valor points shared across all activities is fine with me. Have the same honor bar for all pve types of content is good enough. And if it can drop with the same accessibility as cosmic flux it's ok. There will always be room for ajustement later on during the expac, but I don't want the game activities to feel like a chore or feel unrewarding.

    There might be cleaner options but without an upgrade system, the raid loot system will feel even worse than it does today compared to the mythic plus reward system.

  3. #67503
    Scarab Lord Nymrohd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skildar View Post
    I was discussing this item level increase with a friend earlier today and we would both enjoy seeing it happen at the condition that item level upgrade for raid gear is implemented as well.

    The thing is that I don't want an extra currency for this. Having valor points shared across all activities is fine with me. Have the same honor bar for all pve types of content is good enough. And if it can drop with the same accessibility as cosmic flux it's ok. There will always be room for ajustement later on during the expac, but I don't want the game activities to feel like a chore or feel unrewarding.

    There might be cleaner options but without an upgrade system, the raid loot system will feel even worse than it does today compared to the mythic plus reward system.
    Yeah it would definitely work if the gear is listed as e.g. Heroic 1/4 and you have a way to upgrade everything to 4/4.

  4. #67504
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Yeah it would definitely work if the gear is listed as e.g. Heroic 1/4 and you have a way to upgrade everything to 4/4.
    That would definitely be an option. It would require ensuring that raid loot upgrades don't incentivise grinding too forcefully, or we will just end up with players complaining about feeling forced to grind stuff.
    I think a valor adjacent system dedicated to raids would probably work though. Something like LFR bosses giving 10 valor, NM giving 50, HC giving 250, and Mythic giving 1000, with equivalent upgrade levels for each difficulty. So you get q tiny upgrade for doing lower difficulties, but if you want to upgrade HC gear you don't feel like you have to do LFR.

    Would definitely needs lots of workshopping tough. No idea how to make it work.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  5. #67505
    Scarab Lord Nymrohd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    That would definitely be an option. It would require ensuring that raid loot upgrades don't incentivise grinding too forcefully, or we will just end up with players complaining about feeling forced to grind stuff.
    I think a valor adjacent system dedicated to raids would probably work though. Something like LFR bosses giving 10 valor, NM giving 50, HC giving 250, and Mythic giving 1000, with equivalent upgrade levels for each difficulty. So you get q tiny upgrade for doing lower difficulties, but if you want to upgrade HC gear you don't feel like you have to do LFR.

    Would definitely needs lots of workshopping tough. No idea how to make it work.
    Keep the current Valor system with a rolling Valor cap, let raid loot also be upgradeable. Back in MoP you could get Valor through anything but a raid logger would easily cap valor super fast without even clearing the full raid. Ofc the issue there always ended up being that they would farm the valor by grinding before they raided for the week so they could use it immediately but there is only so much you can do to save some people from themselves.

  6. #67506
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    People scream "I Feel forced" regardless of the actual need. People can't control themselves(Even if said system is pretty generous). I'd even also say people would moan about an upgrade system feeling obligated to upgrade every single piece.
    Last edited by Aeluron Lightsong; 2022-09-10 at 07:19 PM.
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  7. #67507
    Scarab Lord Nymrohd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    People scream "I Feel forced" regardless of the actual need. People can't control themselves.
    Pretty much. So imo they can just be ignored.

  8. #67508
    They can always reverse the valor system to limit how much you can spen per week instead of gow much you can pool.

    That way you don't have an incentive to farm like crazy at the beginning of a game week.

  9. #67509
    The Insane Arafal's Avatar
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    Spawning a quintillion Shadowy Apparitions on the PTR is hella fun.



  10. #67510
    Quote Originally Posted by Skildar View Post
    They can always reverse the valor system to limit how much you can spen per week instead of gow much you can pool.

    That way you don't have an incentive to farm like crazy at the beginning of a game week.
    I fear that might out undue pressure on the M+ affix tuning. Missing out on the easy farm week, or even the early valor farm might be problematic for alts.

    Still, I think it might work. Though i imagine the reason it isn't used is more because it would just be weird to have resources that you physically cannot spend.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  11. #67511
    Legendary! Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    Spawning a quintillion Shadowy Apparitions on the PTR is hella fun.
    This awkward moment when Void Eruption lost most of it's relevancy due to being put on the side of tree (and due to Dark Ascension being back). I see many opinions that VE should be simply scrapped. People on PTR are simply not taking it and popping off anyway.
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2022-09-10 at 08:30 PM.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  12. #67512
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    This awkward moment when Void Eruption lost most of it's relevancy due to being put on the side of tree (and due to Dark Ascension being back). I see many opinions that VE should be simply scrapped. People on PTR are simply not taking it and popping off anyway.
    I wouldn't be surprised if Blizzard is going to treat Dragonflight as one big experiment in what kind of playstyle various classes gravitate towards.
    There are definitely intended playstyles and such but with some of the strict choices removed you might see certain abilities just get left by the wayside.

    Powerful cooldowns is a good example. Yes it's obviously good, but with most being optional, as well as many talents strictly buffing that one ability i wouldn't be surprised if some specs simply forgot weaker one in order to gorge themselves on all the other options.

    Trueshot isn't exactly a great cooldown for MM. And all it would realistically take is a tier with less important burst windows for it to likely be s rapped in favor of more burst AoE for instance.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  13. #67513
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skildar View Post
    They can always reverse the valor system to limit how much you can spen per week instead of gow much you can pool.

    That way you don't have an incentive to farm like crazy at the beginning of a game week.
    Time gating of a sort, its bothersome to me iMO but.... I'm not one to scream about timegating. Not trying to be annoying either, just trying to show what may eventually happen if they do it, I understand of course.
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  14. #67514
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    This awkward moment when Void Eruption lost most of it's relevancy due to being put on the side of tree (and due to Dark Ascension being back). I see many opinions that VE should be simply scrapped. People on PTR are simply not taking it and popping off anyway.
    The only thing I have seen being suggested so far, was to make it a nod pick between VE and DA, followed up by the critt buff you build for VE etc. Having both is just .. uch. It feels very awkward. I also skipped it on the ptr, but simply because you don't have as much points and other options seem better for now to play with.
    Last edited by Alanar; 2022-09-11 at 01:35 AM.

  15. #67515
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    They actually did finish most of the old "unfinished plotlines" with Legion and set up a bunch of new ones with BfA, so yes, we will see all of the Zereth's down the line (asuming the game will go on for the next 10-30+ years). It's free pre-known content on the scale of Ny'alotha or any "Uld" facility. You can hate all you want, but Zereth Mortis was well recieved and the raid, while overtuned, was super awesome from both an encounter PoV and it's looks.
    What exactly does this have to do with "hate"? It's a simple observation. Sure, if this game goes on for 20 more years we might finish all those five missing Zereths, but again, let's be real here. Maybe we visit another one as a real zone or in a "flash forward" / "flash backward" type of scenario. Or maybe we don't do any of that. People are still waiting for Undermine, aren't they? Here we are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    Spawning a quintillion Shadowy Apparitions on the PTR is hella fun.
    You playing the build that's dedicated towards that? Was my first approach for Shadow as well, pick all you can to make Shadowy Apparitions better and proc more often.
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  16. #67516
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    This awkward moment when Void Eruption lost most of it's relevancy due to being put on the side of tree (and due to Dark Ascension being back). I see many opinions that VE should be simply scrapped. People on PTR are simply not taking it and popping off anyway.
    To be fair i feel like its the first real talent tree shadow got, so there is a lot of room for improvement and work to be done. Mind games, Mind spike, void form are the biggest problems that need improvements imo.
    There are also weird builds that work like simply spamming mind flay: insanity the whole fight without doing anything else (besides casting plague obv). And i don't know if thats intended by blizzard or not.

  17. #67517
    Legendary! Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foolicious View Post
    To be fair i feel like its the first real talent tree shadow got, so there is a lot of room for improvement and work to be done. Mind games, Mind spike, void form are the biggest problems that need improvements imo.
    There are also weird builds that work like simply spamming mind flay: insanity the whole fight without doing anything else (besides casting plague obv). And i don't know if thats intended by blizzard or not.
    What's wrong with mind spike? It works great with procs and Dark Ascension.
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2022-09-11 at 05:02 PM.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  18. #67518
    Herald of the Titans Lady Atia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    Leaving things intentionally unfinished so that maybe one day in the off chance in 10-30 years they can pick it back up and keep the content churning is kind of the definition of ''abandoning'' don't you think? lol

    Also have you played WoD at all? Or see that giant sword sticking in our planet? Or any other countless examples I could give you?
    Lol .... WoD got followed up during BfA with the Maghar quests and the giant sword got pretty much dealt with during BfA too and is obviously a plot point they are gonna finish later, Ion even joked about that.

    Keeping story threads for later =|= abandoning them.

  19. #67519
    Legendary! Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    Leaving things intentionally unfinished so that maybe one day in the off chance in 10-30 years they can pick it back up and keep the content churning is kind of the definition of ''abandoning'' don't you think? lol

    Also have you played WoD at all? Or see that giant sword sticking in our planet? Or any other countless examples I could give you?
    What's up with the sword? It is the most obvious hook for future stories. The fact we didn't completely deal with it here and now does not mean it was abandoned. Like, you think that Sarg wont come back? Or Azhara? Or Sylvi?
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2022-09-11 at 05:31 PM.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  20. #67520
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    What's up with the sword? It is the most obvious hook for future stories. The fact we didn't completely deal with it here and now does not mean it was abandoned. Like, you think that Sarg wont come back? Or Azhara? Or Sylvi?
    God I REALLY hope Azshara gets her own expansion. I don't care that she was a patch boss.

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