Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Xilurm]

Presumptious to assume people don't eventually find someone else. Jaina's not that kinda character either(NOt that this is the most important piece of WC lore right now >.>).

Ok but did it have to be a dragon? Also, that's not even what I meant! I'm talking about fictional characters. There's a difference!

[Lady Atia]

Ok but did it have to be a dragon? Also, that's not even what I meant! I'm talking about fictional characters. There's a difference!

What's wrong with him being a dragon? He can always use his visage form which is as much part of himself as his dragon form. WoW dragons aren't GoT dragons ...

[Xilurm]

What's wrong with him being a dragon? He can always use his visage form which is as much part of himself as his dragon form. WoW dragons aren't GoT dragons ...

Sure they are more vastly more "sentient", but they also use those forms to interact with mortals and make them feel more at ease than having to be in their dragon forms all the time. It's more of a "mask" than what they actually are. But I'm just wondering, why would a dragon even find attraction towards a humanoid?

Then again, this is Kalec we're talking about, not his first time doing something like this.

[Ersula]

That's just patch hype wording. The patch notes reworded it so that it showcases that Zereth Mortis and the Sepulcher in particular made all things in the Realms of Death.

SL and Zereth Mortis are basically a taste for things to come regarding the other cosmic realms and their zereths. To give us an idea and general understanding of what to expect going forward with these plots.

I will accept that all the zareths have automa, but I will point out that establishing that there are 6 automated robot-lands is the least interesting way they could have established a cosmic universe, pretty much hastening the inevitable addition of "Firstier Ones" above the First ones to give the setting a sense of existential mystery.

[Lady Atia]

Sure they are more vastly more "sentient", but they also use those forms to interact with mortals and make them feel more at ease than having to be in their dragon forms all the time. It's more of a "mask" than what they actually are. But I'm just wondering, why would a dragon even find attraction towards a humanoid?

Then again, this is Kalec we're talking about, not his first time doing something like this.

No, it's made clear both in the (actually quite well written) visage form short story and ingame with the Dracthyr that the visage forms are an integral part of themself, not just some mask.

"Ebyssian said to look inside and let the magic within express how I wanted to be seen."

And why shouldn't a dragon who spends quite some time in his visage form not find attraction (or better said .... love?) towards a humanoid? Again, it's not like WoW dragons hate it to be in their visage forms or anything.

[Lady Atia]

I will accept that all the zareths have automa, but I will point out that establishing that there are 6 automated robot-lands is the least interesting way they could have established a cosmic universe, pretty much hastening the inevitable addition of "Firstier Ones" above the First ones to give the setting a sense of existential mystery.

Why? The existence of the First Ones gives the setting the "existential mystery" you want, and it was needed since Legion took exactly that away from the Titans. I'm quite sure we will see the other Zereths simply because they will be something people want to see - the hype will be on a scale of the Elemental Planes, Nyalotha or Nazjatar, but I somewhat doubt they will repeat the "mistake" from Legion again.

It's funny how you people seem to criticise exactly the thing you want lol.

[Ersula]

Nope, he nor any other dev in the dev-preview said anything of the sort.

In fact the very first thing they say about Zereth Mortis is that, and i quote:

Which they then repeat in some fashion or another a dozen times throughout the damn video.

An Additional Quote from that video:

This is the land of progenators & this is their workshop: Where they created everything we experience in the Shadowlands & Azeroth; even realms we have yet to know.

On a side note they also say 'We will learn more about Zereth Moris & The First Ones themselves over the course of this content" which isn't really true. We learned jack-shit about the First Ones, even if you do all the Enlightened content.

It's funny how you people seem to criticise exactly the thing you want lol.

Its funny how you people just want to see the same content over & over but a different shade of green.

[Nymrohd]

Another thing. The Primalists keep telling us we are being manipulated and more importantly that "You should have joined us"

I kind of hope the pre expansion questline actually has them try to recruit us. Maybe meet some people like Koroleth, Kurog and Dathea

[Xilurm]

Seeing other Zereths would be the equivalent of seeing multiple "Ulds" (Uldaman, Ulduar, Uldum etc)

Though I don't think that they will eventually not make the same mistake the did with the Titans. How long can they keep the First Ones from showing up?

ALTHOUGH.... Them being dead and gone would be really interesting. Think the Proteans from Mass Effect.

[Sondrelk]

Mehhh I don't compare them at all tbh. The Uld facilities can be used to "shape" stuff sure, but they exist as planetary facilities to help reshape already existing worlds and whatnot in a more ordered and "less chaotic" fashion.

Whereas the Zereths are basically workshops built around a blueprint of existence itself. Where without the Zereths, NOTHING would...well...be a thing or be made.

I wouldnt even say the Uld prefix denotes something meant to help the world soul, but rather just somewhere the titans or titanforged created.
Comparatively the Zereths seem to specifically be there to create more of their respective realm, the same way Zereth Mortis just exists to ensure the Shadowlands runs smoothly, and to create more of it if needed.

[Xilurm]

Mehhh I don't compare them at all tbh. The Uld facilities can be used to "shape" stuff sure, but they exist as planetary facilities to help reshape already existing worlds and whatnot in a more ordered and "less chaotic" fashion.

Sorry I should've clarified. I'm saying they might feel the same due to the mysticism surrounding them. Uldaman was my favourite Vanilla dungeon because of the lore you find inside and how much bigger it makes the scope of the Warcraft universe. So as long we find more Zereths and they have that mysticism surrounding them, lore about some ancient race that abandoned this place and is now somewhere out there in the stars, they can end up feeling the same and filling up the gap the Titans left when they got fully revealed.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I think they need to take it easy with the cosmic themes(Instead of ditching it entirely, just get us comfortable with it, not shove us off a cliff.

Another thing. The Primalists keep telling us we are being manipulated and more importantly that "You should have joined us"

I kind of hope the pre expansion questline actually has them try to recruit us. Maybe meet some people like Koroleth, Kurog and Dathea

They probably know something we don't, or its ironic and they are being manipulated.

[Revamp Man]

I think they need to take it easy with the cosmic themes(Instead of ditching it entirely, just get us comfortable with it, not shove us off a cliff.





They probably know something we don't, or its ironic and they are being manipulated.

They claim the Titans lied to us so I'm going to assume it is something involving the elements based on the leak that predicted themes for the expansions up to 13.0

[Bsirk]

They claim the Titans lied to us so I'm going to assume it is something involving the elements based on the leak that predicted themes for the expansions up to 13.0

Do you remember where that leak is located? Just so we could have a refresher.

[Revamp Man]

I will accept that all the zareths have automa, but I will point out that establishing that there are 6 automated robot-lands is the least interesting way they could have established a cosmic universe, pretty much hastening the inevitable addition of "Firstier Ones" above the First ones to give the setting a sense of existential mystery.

The first ones are the original pantheon
Each one responsible for a cosmic force and the purpose of the pantheon of each force are to keep them in check while the first ones keep the 7th in check

The 7th force is reality and the first one is Azeroth
The other 6 sealed her away for her to be born but over tge millennia the story has been twisted and the purpose has been distorted leading to the Titans believing she's sealed in a prison and they use their constructs and everything else to ensure that she isn't freed

- - - Updated - - -

Do you remember where that leak is located? Just so we could have a refresher.

I think it was linked in a thread on this site but the OP was on a Chinese site
Essentially they are using the themes from previous expansions like Wrath which was death and old god got split to BfA and SL
DF and 11.0 is dragons and elementals so I expect the primalists to open that door

[Varodoc]

Another thing. The Primalists keep telling us we are being manipulated and more importantly that "You should have joined us"

I kind of hope the pre expansion questline actually has them try to recruit us. Maybe meet some people like Koroleth, Kurog and Dathea

Of course, but this is nothing new.

It is a recurring theme in Warcraft that Reality is the arena where all the Cosmic powers clash, and the mortals are just puppets.

This was already clear in the Warcraft RTS, when it was revealed in WC3 that both the Horde and the Scourge were just puppets for the Demon lords of the Legion.

In this case, the Primalists opposed the Titans' philosophy for obvious reasons. Algalon, a creature of Order, literally tried to end all lifeforms on Azeroth and start the planet anew. Billions would have died, but Algalon didn't care, because he's a Cosmic being and mortals are just lesser beings/puppets to discard once they have become useless or dangerous.

This is true for the Naaru as well. They are often portrayed as benevolent and kind, but the Grand Mother of AU Draenor manipulated Yrel and the Draenei into servitude. Mortals have always been manipulated by Cosmic forces, and many times this leads to disaster (we just came out of two expansions where a dumbass zombie almost doomed the Cosmos because the uber mega god of Death manipulated her).

[Hitei]

Do you remember where that leak is located? Just so we could have a refresher.

It wasn't a leak. It was a Chinese NGA post where a player claimed that you could predict the entirety of the expansions by dividing existing expansions in half and putting them in arbitrary order, e.g. "Burning Crusade is about 'draenor' and 'the Legion' and Legion came out after WoD... yada yada, so because Cataclysm was "dragons" and "elements" 10.0 and 11.0 must be about Dragons and Elements respectively, y'know, despite the fact that it was actually Elements and then Dragons.

Its lack of reliability is self-evident since it ends with 13.0 being "Sha, except that doesn't make any sense, so we'll just tenuously connect this to 'Void Lords' instead". It also claims that 12.0 should be something about war between the Alliance and Horde, since the model totally failed to predict that BfA would be BfA rather than just the regular Ny'alotha/Azshara expansion people were expecting.

[Bsirk]

I think it was linked in a thread on this site but the OP was on a Chinese site
Essentially they are using the themes from previous expansions like Wrath which was death and old god got split to BfA and SL
DF and 11.0 is dragons and elementals so I expect the primalists to open that door

I found the post and that guy has been right even up to Shadowlands and Dragonflight. And this was back in 2017 when he posted that. Crazy!

Its lack of reliability is self-evident since it ends with 13.0 being "Sha, except that doesn't make any sense, so we'll just tenuously connect this to 'Void Lords' instead". It also claims that 12.0 should be something about war between the Alliance and Horde, since the model totally failed to predict that BfA would be BfA rather than just the regular Ny'alotha/Azshara expansion people were expecting.

I'm just amazed that he was that close.

[Shadochi]

I still think they should utilize assets they create newly for an expansion/patch better.

They did this a bit in BfA (Crucible of the Storm) and Legion (Trial of Valor) but none in SL. And even BfA and Legion weren't really doing this as they could.

Just release more 1-2boss raids (in .5 patches for example) using assets you already have in the open world, just creating an encounter. And maybe even do a pre-season at expansion start where there are maybe 3-4 bosses spread over a few mini raids tying up some plotlines in zones or moving cool scenes to them (my example always is how Ysera's death would've been much more epic in a 1 boss raid, they just needed to make her mechanics work for a group). Heck it can just have N and HC difficulty where HC drops equivalent to Normal of first season or maybe slightly lower. Nobody will be able to fully gear from this but a few pieces are nice and good variety.
And the ones I suggest in .5 patches maybe drop loot equivalent to last few bosses of that tier on same difficulty or like +3/4, or just have like effects or something. Like how putting an ending to SL leveling zone stories could be cool via a 1-2 boss raid each.

And then for dungeons, I have no idea why they ever stopped doing dungeon wings. Its a great way to create a couple dungeons without making much assets. When I initially saw 9.1 I was hoping we would be getting 2-3 dungeon wings based on torghast assets, with bosses from torghast as bosses there. Same again with ZM and sepulcher themed ones. Not all raids I guess would work perfectly with wings, but a lot can. Especially from the torghast assets they wouldn't need to create rooms or maps since they have them already a bunch (and honestly in 6 different styles...).

Hopefully DF won't stick to the template of BfA and SL of having a patch with raid and mega dungeon and then no other dungeons added. I would hope that by the time S3 comes to DF and we have went through all 8 DF dungeons in M+ but by then there were 4 more added in DF that are S3 M+ (like 2 pataches with 2 dungeons or 2 dungeons and 1 megadung split up). I also don't just want it to be just 3 or 4 long raids for the expansion, and after the first patch the leveling zones are no longer relevant. But somehow as much as I have faith in DF I'm not sure if this is gonna happen and they will probably just follow the template

[Musta]

I still think they should utilize assets they create newly for an expansion/patch better.

They did this a bit in BfA (Crucible of the Storm) and Legion (Trial of Valor) but none in SL. And even BfA and Legion weren't really doing this as they could.

Just release more 1-2boss raids (in .5 patches for example) using assets you already have in the open world, just creating an encounter. And maybe even do a pre-season at expansion start where there are maybe 3-4 bosses spread over a few mini raids tying up some plotlines in zones or moving cool scenes to them (my example always is how Ysera's death would've been much more epic in a 1 boss raid, they just needed to make her mechanics work for a group). Heck it can just have N and HC difficulty where HC drops equivalent to Normal of first season or maybe slightly lower. Nobody will be able to fully gear from this but a few pieces are nice and good variety.
And the ones I suggest in .5 patches maybe drop loot equivalent to last few bosses of that tier on same difficulty or like +3/4, or just have like effects or something. Like how putting an ending to SL leveling zone stories could be cool via a 1-2 boss raid each.

And then for dungeons, I have no idea why they ever stopped doing dungeon wings. Its a great way to create a couple dungeons without making much assets. When I initially saw 9.1 I was hoping we would be getting 2-3 dungeon wings based on torghast assets, with bosses from torghast as bosses there. Same again with ZM and sepulcher themed ones. Not all raids I guess would work perfectly with wings, but a lot can. Especially from the torghast assets they wouldn't need to create rooms or maps since they have them already a bunch (and honestly in 6 different styles...).

Hopefully DF won't stick to the template of BfA and SL of having a patch with raid and mega dungeon and then no other dungeons added. I would hope that by the time S3 comes to DF and we have went through all 8 DF dungeons in M+ but by then there were 4 more added in DF that are S3 M+ (like 2 pataches with 2 dungeons or 2 dungeons and 1 megadung split up). I also don't just want it to be just 3 or 4 long raids for the expansion, and after the first patch the leveling zones are no longer relevant. But somehow as much as I have faith in DF I'm not sure if this is gonna happen and they will probably just follow the template

couldnt agree more.