1. #67621
    So they are done with class design for now . . . damn that is not nice to hear.

  2. #67622
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    So they are done with class design for now . . . damn that is not nice to hear.
    They actually explicitly say they are not. They're now prioritising fixing and balancing what is there over changing it, but specificially not stopping the later and don't expect to do so over the course of the expansion.

  3. #67623
    Elemental Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kneckt95 View Post
    Raid testing announced!

    "The final boss of Vault of the Incarnates, Raszageth the Storm-Eater, will not be available for testing."

    First up:

    Thursday, September 29
    Heroic
    Eranog – 13:00 PDT (16:00 EDT, 22:00 CEST)
    Terros – 14:00 PDT (17:00 EDT, 23:00 CEST)
    First time they announce entire set of testing across all difficulties. They are really stepping up efficiency of this beta.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  4. #67624
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    So they are done with class design for now . . . damn that is not nice to hear.
    Imagine having literal hundreds of pages of feedback on Mages and not act on like 5% of it, but instead introduce legendaries with fundamental issues since Legion and having 3 spec trees which are just Shadowlands copy paste or a class tree that makes literally no sense (and is primarily a copy of shadowlands conduits).

  5. #67625
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    So they are done with class design for now . . . damn that is not nice to hear.
    Where do you people getting these hot takes?
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  6. #67626
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    So they are done with class design for now . . . damn that is not nice to hear.
    That doesn't necessarily mean things are set in stone until the 11.0 expansion. Major changes have come in the middle of expansions before, and I suspect this will end up being the case in Dragonflight. Probably even as early as 10.1.
    Players are going to find some kind of OP build, or grow to really dislike one variant, and hopefully Blizzard will decide to prune talent abilities and add new ones, rather than just tuning.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Where do you people getting these hot takes?
    Probably the blue post where the developers state they are moving towards tuning and bug fixing rather than design.

    However they do not state they are completely doen with design, and in addition also state they expect design to be an issue that will be addressed throughout the expansion.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  7. #67627
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Probably the blue post where the developers state they are moving towards tuning and bug fixing rather than design.

    However they do not state they are completely doen with design, and in addition also state they expect design to be an issue that will be addressed throughout the expansion.
    Oh, so people instantly assumed that they are done. Classic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    That doesn't necessarily mean things are set in stone until the 11.0 expansion
    Are people really thinking that they wont adjust talents during expansion? Like, really?
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  8. #67628
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Where do you people getting these hot takes?
    How is it a hot take when it is what they posted? We are probably not going to see significant talent changes till 10.1 now unless something is completely broken and has to be fixed before the raid. It's what has always happened? At some point they just stop adjusting and just tune.

  9. #67629
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    How is it a hot take when it is what they posted?
    Because that very post actually contradicts your reading.

  10. #67630
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Because that very post actually contradicts your reading.
    Past experience doesn't. And we have a lot of that.

  11. #67631
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Probably the blue post where the developers state they are moving towards tuning and bug fixing rather than design.

    However they do not state they are completely doen with design, and in addition also state they expect design to be an issue that will be addressed throughout the expansion.
    They outright state they aren't and will continue working on it even. They're just shifting priorities to making sure everything works by release, which is kind of a necessity.

    Which to some people apparently means that Blizzard will completely abandon work on the trees and disavow any claims that such has ever taken place.
    Reality, there's probably a bunch of changes still in the pipeline that we've yet to see.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Past experience doesn't. And we have a lot of that.
    And past experience is completely worthless because this whole test phase doesn't match past ones.

  12. #67632
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Past experience doesn't. And we have a lot of that.
    Really? We are using "this is how it was, so this is how it's gonna be" reasoning? Past experience does not apply, when they did a massive shift in their talent design/philosophy and alr proves this reasoning wrong.
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2022-09-24 at 08:58 AM.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  13. #67633
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    They outright state they aren't and will continue working on it even. They're just shifting priorities to making sure everything works by release, which is kind of a necessity.
    It's code-freeze time. There won't be any major changes as to not introduce new bugs. There won't be any major adjustments for the druid class tree if they're not in the next upate. That would make it a total of zero changes to the first talent tree previewed - quite a feat on the devs side ... with them already aknowledging that the initial design is not holding up to he later.

  14. #67634
    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Man View Post
    if they didnt want it they wouldnt opt in and they only give it to those who opt in
    Nope, last I've opted was in Legion and I got DF invite a couple of weeks ago (not playing it).

  15. #67635
    Quote Originally Posted by stormgust View Post
    It's code-freeze time. There won't be any major changes as to not introduce new bugs. There won't be any major adjustments for the druid class tree if they're not in the next upate. That would make it a total of zero changes to the first talent tree previewed - quite a feat on the devs side ... with them already aknowledging that the initial design is not holding up to he later.
    You're not paying a whole lot of attention, are you? They already made changes. They already finished the new design on their side. Code freeze will still take 2-3 builds before it arrives on our end.

  16. #67636
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    You're not paying a whole lot of attention, are you? They already made changes. They already finished the new design on their side. Code freeze will still take 2-3 builds before it arrives on our end.
    Where is the source for this? Last I checked the only previewed a new iteration of the balance tree, and they already announced that one two weeks ago.

    Also code-freeze taking 2-3 builds is your assumption - going by the recent post it will be exactly the next build.

  17. #67637
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Really? We are using "this is how it was, so this is how it's gonna be" reasoning? Past experience does not apply, when they did a massive shift in their talent design/philosophy and alr proves this reasoning wrong.
    You are assuming my intent with this is to be mean. At some point they HAVE to stop changing talents. How on earth will they tune the classes if they don't choose a design and stick with it for a while? You get the feel right or as close as you have time to get and then you tune. I'm just disappointed cause I am not as happy with some of the specs I play as I am with others.

    And this idea that they have completely changed is just silly. MoP and Legion beta which were the other two major class redesigned also had ample feedback and constant iteration with classes. That's not really that out of the norm.

  18. #67638
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    You are assuming my intent with this is to be mean. At some point they HAVE to stop changing talents. How on earth will they tune the classes if they don't choose a design and stick with it for a while? You get the feel right or as close as you have time to get and then you tune. I'm just disappointed cause I am not as happy with some of the specs I play as I am with others.
    That will always be the case, though. It's not a useful measure for when to do this. People will never be equally happy with everything.

  19. #67639
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    That will always be the case, though. It's not a useful measure for when to do this. People will never be equally happy with everything.
    Again I don't see why I am told I am getting hot takes or poorly reading the post when you are actually agreeing with me. At some point design has to stop for tuning to happen. We are at that point. Some specs will always be a bit behind. I am unhappy about that. Don't I have the right to be unhappy about that? Is that irrational? This is the cycle for each of the xpacs that did serious changes to class gameplay; some specs just did not feel great at X.0 and got there by X.2-X.3 (because last two times we had this happen they DID continue working on the system throughout the expac to a much larger degree than in other expacs). They'll get there but it sure sucks for them. That it is inevitable doesn't mean it is OK and that people are not happy with everything doesn't mean their perception of reality is problematic. We are customers, our expectations are supposed to be normative, not pragmatic.

  20. #67640
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    You are assuming my intent with this is to be mean. At some point they HAVE to stop changing talents. How on earth will they tune the classes if they don't choose a design and stick with it for a while? You get the feel right or as close as you have time to get and then you tune. I'm just disappointed cause I am not as happy with some of the specs I play as I am with others.

    And this idea that they have completely changed is just silly. MoP and Legion beta which were the other two major class redesigned also had ample feedback and constant iteration with classes. That's not really that out of the norm.
    But where does design and tuning really stop with these new talents though? Surely with these new talent trees the definition of tuning should have changed. Making talents cost less is definitely tuning. And changing how talents function isn't out of the question compared to the older variant where each talent was meant to be a single impactful ability.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

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