1. #67661
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    And that's OK but then you try to make it up with villains that are charismatic or have interesting intentions. Writing and voice acting can make an otherwise low impact plot very entertainment and I haven't seen much of it yet. Perhaps Raszageth comes through in the many cinematics missing from beta and she is much more entertaining in the end result though.
    Charismatic villains are the exception rather than the norm in WoW. Off the top of my head from the last expansions I can name Denathrius, Azshara, and to a smaller degree Gul'dan was well done in WoD even if largely absent early in Legion. Before that I dunno, Lei Shen was really cool as a concept but underused, Garrosh made for a neat villain but the path there was too badly written for me to appreciate it, Cataclysm and BC had shit villains obviously, and I guess Arthas would be praised here but TBH I think some of it was inertia from the WC3 days. In actual Wrath Arthas isn't as sassy and irreverent as when he was a DK, he's much more of a Saturday morning cartoon villain going "mwahaha I'll get you nexxxxt tiiiime". Yogg is the best villain of that expansion and the best Old God by a mile even if he just lasts barely more than half a zone and one raid.
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  2. #67662
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    And that's OK but then you try to make it up with villains that are charismatic or have interesting intentions. Writing and voice acting can make an otherwise low impact plot very entertainment and I haven't seen much of it yet. Perhaps Raszageth comes through in the many cinematics missing from beta and she is much more entertaining in the end result though.
    I mean, this is literally an elements infused proto drake. It's hard to make a compelling villain from someone with big ass snout and no opposable thumbs. It is not Denathrius, who radiated smugness, charisma and arrogance, we are talking about a boss whose lookalikes are used as mounts since Wotlk. That's why he unfortunately looses from the start as a compelling villain.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  3. #67663
    A consistent bug I am seeing is poor timing with the audio with voice lines riding on top of each other. Sadly that's a bug I've seen making it to live quite often

  4. #67664
    Elemental Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    Yogg is the best villain of that expansion and the best Old God by a mile even if he just lasts barely more than half a zone and one raid.
    Not getting this one. Yogg and C'thun were this super generic, no personality, tentacled, mind fucking "old god" types that kept spewing one-liners, and their only ambition was to "consume all". N'zoth at least could hold a conversation.
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2022-09-24 at 06:36 PM.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  5. #67665
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Not getting this one. Yogg and C'thun were this super generic, no personality, tentacled, mind fucking "old god" types that kept spewing one-liners, and their only ambition was to "consume all". N'zoth at least could hold a conversation.
    It's a shame we didn't get the N'zoth from the first half of the Azshara Warbringers animation. By the time we meet him it's just booming voices and villainous monologuing.
    That initial version of N'zoth was properly threatening.
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  6. #67666
    Some people nowadays are obsessed with every villain having a generic sad sob story childhood backstory and morally grey motivations, but that's not necessary at all for a villain to become iconic and beloved. Yogg-Saron is one of the most beloved villains of WoW for obvious reasons. He is a complete cackling lunatic maniac, his voice actor is very good, his inclusion in the story makes sense (we already saw Faceless ones in WC3, in the Nerubian fallen kingdom, so clearly there had to be an Old God somewhere in Northrend), and he is responsible for the corruption of the Northrend's titan-forged.

    Since Murozond is obviously the real villain of Dragonflight, he can be an excellent villain. While he might not have generic "omg i was just trying to do good xddd" motivation like Arthas or Sylvanas, he has a badass design, a unique purpose in the story (the only villain trying to meddle with time and rewrite the timelines), and a connection to one of the main characters (he is a future version of Nozdormu).

  7. #67667
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Denathrius, Azshara, Khadgar?
    look my point of reference for charismatic villains in mmo is FFXIV's Emet-Selch so you'll understand how laughable your post is

  8. #67668
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Not getting this one. Yogg and C'thun were this super generic, no personality, tentacled, mind fucking "old god" types that kept spewing one-liners, and their only ambition was to "consume all". N'zoth at least could hold a conversation.
    Well he was the "smartest" or what not. That said I don't think each old god needs its own personality, perhaps their own minions and well look different but personality wel.. a cosmic horror is a cosmic horror.


    look my point of reference for charismatic villains in mmo is FFXIV's Emet-Selch so you'll understand how laughable your post is
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  9. #67669
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Well he was the "smartest" or what not. That said I don't think each old god needs its own personality, perhaps their own minions and well look different but personality wel.. a cosmic horror is a cosmic horror.
    Ye, and these has been overdone so many times in different media. Ancient, cosmic, unfathomable evil with no personality is really not very appealing any more.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  10. #67670
    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmicpreds View Post
    Then play Final Fantasy?
    I do when I want to play through a mmo with a story. I play wow when I want to pvp (or rather I will in the dragon expansion when pvp gearing will stop sucking). You can play more than one game! I know that's a mind blowing concept.

  11. #67671
    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPrincess View Post
    I do when I want to play through a mmo with a story. I play wow when I want to pvp (or rather I will in the dragon expansion when pvp gearing will stop sucking). You can play more than one game! I know that's a mind blowing concept.
    You play several games to get the experience one game alone cannot give. I don't play Stardew Valley for morally grey war epics, I play Final Fantasy XII for that. Similarly I don't play Final Fantasy XII to romance people with in-depth personalities, that is what Stardew Valley is for.

    WoW offers a specific brand of simple fun, and really you should be able to discern what to expect from WoW at this point.
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  12. #67672
    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmicpreds View Post
    You need to stop acting as if many WoW players don't play more than 1 game, and you also need to stop being toxic about it. If I want Emet Selch in an MMO, I'll play XIV where Emet Selch is the villain. Not every MMO needs Emet Selch in their game lol, or someone exactly like him.
    That was absolutely not my point. My point was: wow's writing and characters suck ass. Someone offered something that they though were counter examples, and I suggested Emet-Selch as the quality level wow should aspire to, but obviously not something they should copy. Someone else also completely missing the point told me to just play FFXIV, hence my quip about it being possible to play multiple games.

    Frankly given the reading comprehension of wow players I can understand why they keep the writing simple.

  13. #67673
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I kind of expect Vault to end with the other three Primals all breaking free. I mean it's the obvious thing to happen.
    Don't we fight them on the way to kill Razsageth in Vault of the Incarnates?

  14. #67674
    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPrincess View Post
    That was absolutely not my point. My point was: wow's writing and characters suck ass. Someone offered something that they though were counter examples, and I suggested Emet-Selch as the quality level wow should aspire to, but obviously not something they should copy. Someone else also completely missing the point told me to just play FFXIV, hence my quip about it being possible to play multiple games.

    Frankly given the reading comprehension of wow players I can understand why they keep the writing simple.
    WoW has been on this level since its inception. I'd say you're the one who is mistaken here expecting anything else.

  15. #67675
    Quote Originally Posted by Bsirk View Post
    Don't we fight them on the way to kill Razsageth in Vault of the Incarnates?
    unless its in the leveling i dont believe so no

  16. #67676
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    I think it is pretty obvious we will not be fully dealing with the Primalists in Vault but throughout the expansion. The Dracthyr flee their homeland (island on the north part of DF map) due to the primalists attacking so I assume that will be reused for 10.1 or 10.2.
    Tho I still wonder what was that undergound map string that was datamined for 10.1.
    Honestly I still wouldn't be surprised if primalists brought back Galakrond for the final patch.
    Also not all the leveling zones have a finished story, for example in the Azure Span levling dungeon (Brackenhide Hollow I believe) the final boss escapes, so that is another possible continued plot point among others
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  17. #67677
    Still hoping they tweak the fonts/kerning/drop shadows across the UI as part of the UI revamp. Since they've been using the new version of Morpheus ("Metamorphous") in recent books, they could transition to using it instead of the old font since it's easier to read. Here's a quick mockup of what tweaked fonts/kerning/shadows and the newer font would look like:

    Last edited by Gloriandus; 2022-09-25 at 02:40 AM.

  18. #67678
    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Man View Post
    unless its in the leveling i dont believe so no
    You are correct sir. I logged into Beta to check the bosses in the raid. Sorry for doubting you @Nymrohd

  19. #67679
    Quote Originally Posted by Bsirk View Post
    You are correct sir. I logged into Beta to check the bosses in the raid. Sorry for doubting you @Nymrohd
    No need to be sorry. If you check her encounter journal, she is trying to bring down the defenses during the fight. So I expect we defeat her but she takes it down regardless which could make for a solid cinematic with three dragons bursting out of the Vault.
    Wonder why she was locked elsewhere. And still wondering how the Primalists were created, who told them about the Incarnates etc. There are several central humanoid characters and it would be fun for them to have proper backstories we find out. Like, Koroleth could have been a survivor of Teldrassil that just went crazy after losing everything and just wants to see the world burn. Kurog is a Grimtotem so that should be enough to start a story.

    Also while I don't want to support queer coding of villains, WoW's better villains are usually camp as fuck. So maybe lean in to that since that's what they know to deliver. Make the Flame Incarnate FLAMING.

    - - - Updated - - -

    So the new answer to profession ilvls is that they will not make primal focus available for people not doing heroic raids/M+. And an item is soubound to whomever offers primal chaos/primal focus/concentrated primal focus.

    That means that crafting is very much dead as a progression system on its own. It's just there to support raiders and M+. Which I get but it is not what was advertised and also have to wonder if it will be worth it since crafting gear will always be worse than what raiders can get (the latter half of the raid giving better ilvl than what the best crafter can ever make for raiders) unless the embellished gear is OP enough to make up for less ilvl and getting to that level of crafting will require crazy amounts of gold and/or time spend.

    And I'd still love to know what exactly they plan to do with M+ gear ilvls.
    Last edited by Nymrohd; 2022-09-25 at 08:38 AM.

  20. #67680
    Quote Originally Posted by Gloriandus View Post
    Still hoping they tweak the fonts/kerning/drop shadows across the UI as part of the UI revamp. Since they've been using the new version of Morpheus ("Metamorphous") in recent books, they could transition to using it instead of the old font since it's easier to read. Here's a quick mockup of what tweaked fonts/kerning/shadows and the newer font would look like:

    [IMG]
    Ugh, that clashes. Badly.

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