Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Nyel]

Also in which way does the expac seem far from ready that cant be done in the next 2 months?

Evoker is an utter mess, the class is terrible in everything and it's not something they can fix with tuning. Some other specs have the same issues (Guardian Druid has basically been untouched for months).

[Nymrohd]

People tend to way overestimate how long most bugfixes take. The hard part is figuring out what causes them, not how to get it to stop usually.

I am going to bring back up the issue with crafting work orders which have not been tested at all, are a central part of how professions are supposed to work and are a fairly complex feature. Not even the UI is ready let alone having the system operational. Almost every time they've tried to change things at the auction house it takes them a while to get things going smoothly and this effectively an auction house like system WITH buy orders, with further restrictions, with a much more complex UI since you need to be able to provide materials for orders. I am not worried about any other feature (classes will be improved in patches as needed, dragonriding mostly works, everything else is not really new) but I would like to see work orders operational soon in the beta.

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Evoker is an utter mess, the class is terrible in everything and it's not something they can fix with tuning. Some other specs have the same issues (Guardian Druid has basically been untouched for months).

I just don't get what they were thinking with the midrange style. While it's not my main role I've healed raids many times and unless you have really great players (and sometimes even then) having someone be out of range when they need to be healed is a constant concern with 40+yds range, let alone with 30. And I've tried the class as dps and it's really not anything special? Again the midrange thing is not really made up by the mobility, especially given they are pretty squishy.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I wouldn't take someone's word who's been constantly cynical about each expansion and yet still lingers here.

[Nymrohd]

I wouldn't take someone's word who's been constantly cynical about each expansion and yet still lingers here.

Well I've played the evoker on beta and I'm underwhelmed as well. And the range issue for raid healing is just a basic observation.

[Nyel]

I just don't get what they were thinking with the midrange style. While it's not my main role I've healed raids many times and unless you have really great players (and sometimes even then) having someone be out of range when they need to be healed is a constant concern with 40+yds range, let alone with 30. And I've tried the class as dps and it's really not anything special? Again the midrange thing is not really made up by the mobility, especially given they are pretty squishy.

Basically nothing. The entire design of Evoker is contradicting itself. Trying to make it the most mobile caster while giving them empowered skills which can't be cast during movement CDs and which take 3,5 seconds to cast is just insult to injury for the reduced range (which they just changed to 30y for healers, but it's still terrible). Making them squishy af while limiting their range is another design decision that makes no sense.

Right now the entire class makes no sense and they haven't figured that out yet. Devastation has basically the most basic and boring rotation of any class / spec and just feels lame. Number tuning will help both specs, but there is zero reason to bring an Evoker to a dungeon or a raid group. They are just useless at this point, which feels weird for a brand new class.

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I wouldn't take someone's word who's been constantly cynical about each expansion and yet still lingers here.

Oh man. It's basically the consensus in the beta forum and the class discord. But thanks for being passive aggressive, as usual.

[Makorus]

While Evokers are kinda shit, the fact that they 25yard range is not an issue unless raids were not designed with that in mind.

Same with them being "non-mobile". You have three charges of Hover, and you only need to cast two Empowered Spells every 30 seconds anyway, and one of them is a Level 1 Empowerment most the time anyway.

The real issue is that they are boring. Pyre is useless. Azure Strike is useless. Deep Breath is useless. Their cooldown is boring. Their mastery is boring. They have no big ability. Their rotation is 1.) Use your Empowerments off CD 2.) Spam Disintegration 3.) Cast Flamestrike 4.) Cast Pyre at 20 Stacks.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

While Evokers are kinda shit, the fact that they 25yard range is not an issue unless raids were not designed with that in mind.

Same with them being "non-mobile". You have three charges of Hover, and you only need to cast two Empowered Spells every 30 seconds anyway, and one of them is a Level 1 Empowerment most the time anyway.

The real issue is that they are boring. Pyre is useless. Azure Strike is useless. Deep Breath is useless. Their cooldown is boring. Their mastery is boring. They have no big ability. Their rotation is 1.) Use your Empowerments off CD 2.) Spam Disintegration 3.) Cast Flamestrike 4.) Cast Pyre at 20 Stacks.

That doesn't sound boring at all.

[Makabreska]

Meanwhile, Spriest looks dope. Just learned about an AoE build that doesn't even take Mind Sear. Unreal how better spec plays if you don't have to manually multidot.

[Sondrelk]

O just find it amusing/aggravating that the empower mechanic would work so much better for so many other classes more suited to the turret niche.
Empowered Firebolt, or empowered Aimed Shot for instance.

Evoker will likely have the same issues that DH has. The DPS specs especially.
Both are created top down, rather than starting from a base of interesting playstyle, and then figuring out how to fit it into the class theme.

Havoc was created from the idea of playing a Demon Hunter, but it's clear that noone really knew what that would mean beyond eye beam, glaives, and metamorphosis. This makes the spec kinda anemic.

The Evoker class is similar. They have a great idea of playing a dragon, but not really a whole lot on how to make playing a dragon interesting in combat.

[Nymrohd]

So I'm at 70 for a few hours now. I have so many things to do. But I have to say I am seeing nothing like a task list? I haven't unlocked any world quest or anything similar, I've barely seen any dailies around. There are so many sidequests in Dragonflight that they can keep me busy forever (and then there is the instance gameplay that one can play for ever if they want to ofc) and more world events seem to open up with new renown levels. I repeat, I do not mind it at all, it just seems jarring after every expansion from MoP after giving your a very clear list of tasks to do on the daily.

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That doesn't sound boring at all.

Most of the spells seem to have no impact. But hey if you love that, sure.

[Sondrelk]

Hopefully Evoker gets some improvements over time. Tier Sets might make a small difference even, who knows.

But really the current situation with Evoker is basically the carbon copy of how DH was at the start of Legion. Interesting premise, with a subpar execution.

[Alanar]

Meanwhile, Spriest looks dope. Just learned about an AoE build that doesn't even take Mind Sear. Unreal how better spec plays if you don't have to manually multidot.

Yea shadow is winning on all front imo. I am very pleased. Even the proc build with mind spike and dp is a lot of fun at 70. I

[bloodmoth13]

I always thought this would have been a better end for WoD instead of demons again. The alternate Alliance invading Draenor after Jaina takes on Gul’dan’s role and warns Azeroth of what happened in the First War. Causing the Alliance to do a pre-emptive strike, taking out the Iron Horde, our Horde, and our Alliance. Why our Alliance? Because the First War heroes were true paragons of the virtues of the Alliance. The current leaders don’t live up to those ideals. It would be a sobering experience for our Alliance, at war for 30 or so years, to realize how twisted by conflict they’ve become. To the point that their heroes view them the same as Orcs.

The whole purpose of alternate universe 'what if' scenarios is to explore exactly these kinds of ideas!

What we got was super disappointing, id have loved to see 'what if the horde heroes were never corrupted' and what we got from the alternate reality was 'what if the horde heroes were simply always evil'.
I guess the main purpose was revitalising draenor, the original script I think was doing a cata level rework on Outland but I guess they didn't like the thought of deleting a continent.
I'd say bringing in the alliance as the end threat might have been introducing too many characters but honestly if they replaced the legion it would have been fine. imagine wods end patch having he kings of azeroth invading and squaring off against the warlords and needing to stop the alliance from wiping out the orcs.

Honestly I don't care how ridiculous the story would be because time travel is a nonsense fever dream anyway, but having the alliance as the aggressors would have been SO much more fun than going from an X-Pac where orcs are evil to orcs being evil.

[Nymrohd]

Hopefully Evoker gets some improvements over time. Tier Sets might make a small difference even, who knows.

But really the current situation with Evoker is basically the carbon copy of how DH was at the start of Legion. Interesting premise, with a subpar execution.

At least demon hunters played fast

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The whole purpose of alternate universe 'what if' scenarios is to explore exactly these kinds of ideas!

What we got was super disappointing, id have loved to see 'what if the horde heroes were never corrupted' and what we got from the alternate reality was 'what if the horde heroes were simply always evil'.
I guess the main purpose was revitalising draenor, the original script I think was doing a cata level rework on Outland but I guess they didn't like the thought of deleting a continent.
I'd say bringing in the alliance as the end threat might have been introducing too many characters but honestly if they replaced the legion it would have been fine. imagine wods end patch having he kings of azeroth invading and squaring off against the warlords and needing to stop the alliance from wiping out the orcs.

Honestly I don't care how ridiculous the story would be because time travel is a nonsense fever dream anyway, but having the alliance as the aggressors would have been SO much more fun than going from an X-Pac where orcs are evil to orcs being evil.

Honestly imagine the Alliance invading, actually being a righteous alliance who is being misled by Medivh who is also Sargeras in that AU and using them to invade our reality to save Azeroth from us.

[Nyel]

While Evokers are kinda shit, the fact that they 25yard range is not an issue unless raids were not designed with that in mind.

Same with them being "non-mobile". You have three charges of Hover, and you only need to cast two Empowered Spells every 30 seconds anyway, and one of them is a Level 1 Empowerment most the time anyway.

The real issue is that they are boring. Pyre is useless. Azure Strike is useless. Deep Breath is useless. Their cooldown is boring. Their mastery is boring. They have no big ability. Their rotation is 1.) Use your Empowerments off CD 2.) Spam Disintegration 3.) Cast Flamestrike 4.) Cast Pyre at 20 Stacks.

While the range is not so much of an issue for Devastation, it comes an issue for Preservation the moment other healer outclass them - and they do, in basically everything. Heck, Monk and Druid are even more mobile than Evoker, which takes away the only plus that Evoker is said to have.

The problem is, Evoker doesn't serve any purpose. The class brings absolutely nothing that others don't bring and on top of that, do better than Evoker. There's an inherent issue with its class design because right now, it wouldn't make a difference if you have Evoker or not. The class only fulfills the "Dragon" fantasy somehow, and not even in that regard it's doing a good job. Besides that, the class is just so underwhelming and boring. I'm going to main one, because I'm burnt out of all the other healers, but the issues are far and wide with both Evoker specs. And Blizzard already announced they are mostly just doing tuning now, which is not Evoker's main concern. So the class will release in this state and if there are major changes, they will come with 10.1 - which might be too late, to make the class popular. I fear they'll be the new Monks when it comes to popularity.

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O just find it amusing/aggravating that the empower mechanic would work so much better for so many other classes more suited to the turret niche.
Empowered Firebolt, or empowered Aimed Shot for instance.

Evoker will likely have the same issues that DH has. The DPS specs especially.
Both are created top down, rather than starting from a base of interesting playstyle, and then figuring out how to fit it into the class theme.

Havoc was created from the idea of playing a Demon Hunter, but it's clear that noone really knew what that would mean beyond eye beam, glaives, and metamorphosis. This makes the spec kinda anemic.

The Evoker class is similar. They have a great idea of playing a dragon, but not really a whole lot on how to make playing a dragon interesting in combat.

Exactly. Casting skills with a 3,5 second duration and being rooted for that time in a place is the exact opposite of the supposedly very mobile and fast gameplay. I don't know why they tried to combine both aspects in a class. It just doesn't work.

They put a lot of time into Preservation and it shows, with 40y range the spec could be good and find its niche. But Devastation? It's a dead spec, in PvP even moreso than in PvE. Most of the time and effort clearly went into Preservation, which has a lot of unique ideas and playstyles. Devastation? Nothing innovative or fresh at all. It's as you said, mirroring the lifelessness of Havoc DH.

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Meanwhile, Spriest looks dope. Just learned about an AoE build that doesn't even take Mind Sear. Unreal how better spec plays if you don't have to manually multidot.

Have to agree. Shadow Priest and Balance Druid are looking amazing. They did a great job with both specs.

[Nymrohd]

Btw while the tier sets we are getting are not bad looking, anyone else hoping they quit it with the monochrome glowy crap?

[Makorus]

While the range is not so much of an issue for Devastation, it comes an issue for Preservation the moment other healer outclass them - and they do, in basically everything. Heck, Monk and Druid are even more mobile than Evoker, which takes away the only plus that Evoker is said to have.

The problem is, Evoker doesn't serve any purpose. The class brings absolutely nothing that others don't bring and on top of that, do better than Evoker. There's an inherent issue with its class design because right now, it wouldn't make a difference if you have Evoker or not. The class only fulfills the "Dragon" fantasy somehow, and not even in that regard it's doing a good job. Besides that, the class is just so underwhelming and boring. I'm going to main one, because I'm burnt out of all the other healers, but the issues are far and wide with both Evoker specs. And Blizzard already announced they are mostly just doing tuning now, which is not Evoker's main concern. So the class will release in this state and if there are major changes, they will come with 10.1 - which might be too late, to make the class popular. I fear they'll be the new Monks when it comes to popularity.

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Exactly. Casting skills with a 3,5 second duration and being rooted for that time in a place is the exact opposite of the supposedly very mobile and fast gameplay. I don't know why they tried to combine both aspects in a class. It just doesn't work.

They put a lot of time into Preservation and it shows, with 40y range the spec could be good and find its niche. But Devastation? It's a dead spec, in PvP even moreso than in PvE. Most of the time and effort clearly went into Preservation, which has a lot of unique ideas and playstyles. Devastation? Nothing innovative or fresh at all. It's as you said, mirroring the lifelessness of Havoc DH.

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Have to agree. Shadow Priest and Balance Druid are looking amazing. They did a great job with both specs.

True, I've heard that the Healing Evoker is pretty shit and nigh unviable.

Evoker to me feels like they had an idea of "Dragons" and no idea how to actually implement that, which is sad.

I am mostly speaking from a DPS perspective.

I mean, I wouldn't say that Evokers bring nothing. Source of Magic is a great cooldown for Healers, their Shield-Breaking spell might have some cheese potential, Group Mobility is really undervalued by people which they bring a lot of and they got a big raid damage reduction plus a better priest grip, and funnily enough, they will bring a big DPS boost to Demon Hunters, but even then, outside of that, DPS-wise, they don't really have anything. They have good single target, but once it goes to even remotely multi-target, the spec just falls apart and becomes incredibly clunky to play.

Empowering is probably the biggest class-design flop in recent memory. They hyped it up like this huge thing, and at the end of the day, you have two spells that are empowered and for one, you just use it at Max Charge every single time, and for the other one, you just use it at Level 1 (if it's single target). No thought required.

I love everything else about Evokers, I love how they look, I love the concept of Visage Form, I love their racials (a bit miffed about transmogs, but eh), but they really dropped the ball on it. Balance Druids got like 10 different talent trees while for Evokers, they just dumbed down and dumbed down the tree into a playstyle where you only use one spell.

[Lady Atia]

Btw while the tier sets we are getting are not bad looking, anyone else hoping they quit it with the monochrome glowy crap?

No? Unlike with Shadowlands sets, this time we are actually getting the nice glow for all sets - quite a step in the right direction. Literally none of the sets looks shit this time around, so everyone wins. Unlike f.e. Sanctum sets which got dumped down just for the Elite/Mythic tints ...

If you dislike glow, just get leveling gear or older transmog instead?^^

[Xgirl]

Nothing exciting right now?

[Shadochi]

Also for people that were hoping other races might be evoker, thats not happening at least in DF. Since they obviously put a couple of nodes that affect Dracthyr racial abilities in the class talent tree for evoker