Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Nymrohd]

I have to say it definitely shows that there is an extra team for world content. At any moment there are so many events on the map and Elemental Invasions are disabled even! I am not even looking at it with war mode on. And yeah people can say it is the same type of content we had before and that it is not that rewarding but honestly, at the start of the expac the reward is just looking at the continent, having fun with your class gameplay in less challenging content (though the elite areas can kick your ass and many specs will want to group up to tackle them) and just doing the renown grind. And there seems to be a lot of content to do that can keep you busy for more than the usual 2-3 months (or enough for you to nolife the game for a fair bit) without even touching repeating content.

Now for the repeatable content, I think the Nokhud offensive will be VERY annoying for PuGs. Going to be a challenge to get everyone to land at the same spot.

[Sondrelk]

While true, it kinda lessens the potential awesomenes of the Dragonflight Fated season and mixed tier sets there. Although I guess if we still get 2-3 more it will still be quite cool enough in the end.

Mixed tier sets are unlikely given you can at best only get two 2-set bonuses, not a 2 and 4 set like you could in Legion.

Though honestly, based on tuning a simple set is just as likely to be OP anyways, barring a WoD situation where the last tier intentionally gave completely busted tier bonuses.

[Nymrohd]

Mixed tier sets are unlikely given you can at best only get two 2-set bonuses, not a 2 and 4 set like you could in Legion.

Though honestly, based on tuning a simple set is just as likely to be OP anyways, barring a WoD situation where the last tier intentionally gave completely busted tier bonuses.

And do we really want a return to Legion? Locking multiple slots is one thing; we can expect the signature items (the ones from the raid guaranteed to have higher ilvl) to effectively lock slots. If some of the Embellished crafted items prove OP enough to make up for any ilvl difference (which is very possible, some of the effects are really strong) those lock slots too. You end up back at the situation were getting items for certain slots is just not an upgrade. I guess the catalyst improves on that? I do wonder, will we be able to use the catalyst to craft any tier set from the expac or just the current ones?

[Sondrelk]

And do we really want a return to Legion? Locking multiple slots is one thing; we can expect the signature items (the ones from the raid guaranteed to have higher ilvl) to effectively lock slots. If some of the Embellished crafted items prove OP enough to make up for any ilvl difference (which is very possible, some of the effects are really strong) those lock slots too. You end up back at the situation were getting items for certain slots is just not an upgrade. I guess the catalyst improves on that? I do wonder, will we be able to use the catalyst to craft any tier set from the expac or just the current ones?

I certainly hope so. Otherwise you would have to play every class at every difficulty in every season to be able to gather the full suite of appearances.
Elite PvP sets being unobtainable after the season is over is already egregious enough, and that is just so one coloration.

[huth]

While true, it kinda lessens the potential awesomenes of the Dragonflight Fated season and mixed tier sets there. Although I guess if we still get 2-3 more it will still be quite cool enough in the end.

I'm not sure we'd get that either way. More likely you can just upgrade everything to the final tier.

And it goes back to an old issue with set bonuses: If they make the first tier bonuses to awesome, people are going to feel bad switching them out for the second.

[Nymrohd]

On the matter of tier sets I have to fully agree with the devs. We are getting the most massive redesign of classes ever. This is bigger than MoP or Legion and I've tried several specs and found ways to make them play very different to what they do on live. Was that optimal? No idea! We'll have to wait for the sims and see I guess. But when you are adding so many options in the game, strong tier sets would likely limit what can be done severely. Some of them may already do that even when they are so simple; e.g. I can see Frost DK set pushing Obliterate-heavy rotations over BoS (which I'm fine with, I hate BoS).

One thing that would be very cool given we have the catalyst is if they could keep all the sets current. You can't go 2+4 like you could in Legion so the variations will be more contained and it would be really interesting and allow them to make sets that are more focused during the xpac without killing some builds (since a different set could support them). Think of them becoming more like Diablo Sets; a different way to gear up.

[Lady Atia]

I certainly hope so. Otherwise you would have to play every class at every difficulty in every season to be able to gather the full suite of appearances.
Elite PvP sets being unobtainable after the season is over is already egregious enough, and that is just so one coloration.

To be fair, they could always sell ensambles once a season is over. That said, I'm quite sure the tier sets will be locked to their season so items from vault of the incarnates will always turn into dragonflight tier one pieces, stuff from the second raid into tier two etc.

- - - Updated - - -

On the matter of tier sets I have to fully agree with the devs. We are getting the most massive redesign of classes ever. This is bigger than MoP or Legion and I've tried several specs and found ways to make them play very different to what they do on live. Was that optimal? No idea! We'll have to wait for the sims and see I guess. But when you are adding so many options in the game, strong tier sets would likely limit what can be done severely. Some of them may already do that even when they are so simple; e.g. I can see Frost DK set pushing Obliterate-heavy rotations over BoS (which I'm fine with, I hate BoS).

One thing that would be very cool given we have the catalyst is if they could keep all the sets current. You can't go 2+4 like you could in Legion so the variations will be more contained and it would be really interesting and allow them to make sets that are more focused during the xpac without killing some builds (since a different set could support them). Think of them becoming more like Diablo Sets; a different way to gear up.

Yeah, that's how I hope the fated season will play out - allowing for a bunch of different builds instead of a "get go" build. Could also help fight the extreme min-max view the community has right now.

[klaps_05]

If you put it on a single item you make it too easy to just carry it forwards. A 2 and 4 set both means you will be forced to replace it, not to mention the acquisition is slower, which means the developers can effectively tune bosses assuming you don't have it.

In short, tier sets satisfy several requirements players might have. Even if the ability itself is boring, it doesn't matter so long as the set is tuned high enough to be worth it regardless.

Forcing players to get a new one is as easy as disabling the item in a new raid or making it work at lower effect than intended if its an old item. If you have it right away devs can also effectively tune bosses, as devs essentially define what power level a raid will have and tune around that.

Putting the ensemble as acquirable via direct personal loot like conduits also means no griefing with need/greed and allows them to make a full more detailed sets with full 10 pieces rather than combining tier with offpieces as a complete set.

I personally feel much less satisfaction when the tier bonus especially 4pc is a joke - after all the work to get it, with some ppl having to wait 12 weeks for 4pc, it should be a lot stronger (which should be also fine now that there is catalyst every tier).

[Sondrelk]

To be fair, they could always sell ensambles once a season is over. That said, I'm quite sure the tier sets will be locked to their season so items from vault of the incarnates will always turn into dragonflight tier one pieces, stuff from the second raid into tier two etc.

- - - Updated - - -



Yeah, that's how I hope the fated season will play out - allowing for a bunch of different builds instead of a "get go" build. Could also help fight the extreme min-max view the community has right now.

I imagine that a potential fated raid reason will work like now. Only one raid a week, and only that one will be upgradeable the rest will hopefully change into the older sets still.
The only source that i think will change is the dungeon gear changing what it transforms to each season.

[Makabreska]

I personally feel much less satisfaction when the tier bonus especially 4pc is a joke - after all the work to get it, with some ppl having to wait 12 weeks for 4pc, it should be a lot stronger (which should be also fine now that there is catalyst every tier).

Was pretty obvious they will play it safe in first tier when we got this huge talent overhaul. Same as in Cata, when first sets were super bland. But I am not sure what kind of "all the work" and "12 weeks" you are talking about.

[Sondrelk]

Forcing players to get a new one is as easy as disabling the item in a new raid or making it work at lower effect than intended if its an old item. If you have it right away devs can also effectively tune bosses, as devs essentially define what power level a raid will have and tune around that.

Putting the ensemble as acquirable via direct personal loot like conduits also means no griefing with need/greed and allows them to make a full more detailed sets with full 10 pieces rather than combining tier with offpieces as a complete set.

I personally feel much less satisfaction when the tier bonus especially 4pc is a joke - after all the work to get it, with some ppl having to wait 12 weeks for 4pc, it should be a lot stronger (which should be also fine now that there is catalyst every tier).

Making the trinket unusable in future raids is one of the worst things they could do. It means you will have to keep a subpar trinket in preparation for when the new raid releases, or effectively start a new raid with one less trinket than normal.
It would feel awful.

[Holdodlig]

They need to design totems/chargers/forms first, which is the issue they stated with "all races/all classes".

I don't think totem will be the hardest thing for them to design which is why I think they'll just be first. It's just one small model on which they'll add different particle effect depending on the element.

Same for the charger. They already have every racial mount in HD even if they're not labelled as racial mount like the sabertooth, deathcharger or even the troll raptors. And most of them already have a lore reason to exist anyway, and thus even without Tyr :
>We already saw night elves paladins
>Same with undead with Zeliek and Whitemane.
>With Vol'jin gaining Rezan's powers, he can just make his own cast of prelates.
>There is a void elf paladin copycat in the Island Explorations but should we count this as a true paladin ?

The only races we have yet to see as paladin are :
>High mountain which can easily be added as a cultural influence from their non-blessed counterpart. They would just have an armored moose.
>Kultiran which is basically the same as taurens. They'll probably have the same charger as humans since they ride horses.
>Same for the worgens. They have a cathedral and even if we don't know which god they worship, we can easily believe it's the light. Same as kultiran and humans, a horse.
>Gnomes and mecagnomes who might just understand by studying Tyr how he used the light and do the same. Mechastrider for gnomes, spider tank for mechagnomes.
>Pandarens are strong-willed and I honestly never understood why they couldn't be paladin to begin with (and I'm dead serious about that). Light turtle for them ?
>Vulperas doesn't have much lore anyway so they'll just follow anything we give to them. Their racial mounts are hyenas which were updated in BFA.


And they don't even need to add custom racial mount right away. How long have dwarves and draenei rode the human charger ?

As for druids, I'll agree that it will take way more time than any other class as they have to design bear, cat and a custom balance form.

[Lahis]

As for druids, I'll agree that it will take way more time than any other class as they have to design bear, cat and a custom balance form.

Flight form has also always been racialöy distinct, and with AR druids that was extended to ither travel forms too.

[Gloriandus]

Nice to see that they added a "snap" feature to the UI edit mode. Would still like to see a few more, which I consider basic and not unreasonable, improvements:

• independent resizing of things like minimap instead of being based on UI scale; I usually scale my UI up to about 0.85, and the minimap is enormous;
• ability to hide/fade all UI elements; e.g., if I'm using the Combined Backpack, I do not need to see the Bag Bar at all;
• UI still a mix of old, low-res textures with new, high-res ones (maybe they're holding out on all the other textures for the home stretch?);
• ability to detach class/spec power from player unitframe;
• ability to move interface windows with edit mode;
• still would like better text drop shadows and tighter kerning (yes, super-niche-personal)

[klaps_05]

Was pretty obvious they will play it safe in first tier when we got this huge talent overhaul. Same as in Cata, when first sets were super bland. But I am not sure what kind of "all the work" and "12 weeks" you are talking about.

If you dont raid it takes 4 weeks after the catalyst is open, which usually opens in week 8. With larger roster or pugging, it can take a massive amount of time to have 4/4 heroic or 4/4 mythic set and with tiered ilevel, could mean even longer as ppl would be less willing to trade higher ilevel as progression goes on.

[Makabreska]

If you dont raid it takes 4 weeks after the catalyst is open, which usually opens in week 8. With larger roster or pugging, it can take a massive amount of time to have 4/4 heroic or 4/4 mythic set and with tiered ilevel, could mean even longer as ppl would be less willing to trade higher ilevel as progression goes on.

If you don't raid at all, then you just deprave yourself of Tier source, and it's on you. You got options, but you are not using them, so the trade-off is taking longer to get 4-set. Catalyst system was created for those unlucky, still missing final piece, and as a catchup for alts. No one will cater to those not raiding with reduced waiting time. Also, replacing higher ilvl pieces is much less important than getting set bonuses in the first place (who even exclusively pugs Myhics?). Oh, and DF catalyst opens 6 weeks after raid release.

[Nyel]

I'm pretty sure these tier set bonuses are not something for "the first tier", but the usual bland set bonuses for the near future. Why? Because talent trees limit the options what they can do with tier sets. So they need to use the most obvious talent choices everybody is going to take that no one is left out. This is the counterpart to the open design of talent trees, bonuses must be centered around core skills or the upper part of the talent tree.

[Revamp Man]

If you dont raid it takes 4 weeks after the catalyst is open, which usually opens in week 8. With larger roster or pugging, it can take a massive amount of time to have 4/4 heroic or 4/4 mythic set and with tiered ilevel, could mean even longer as ppl would be less willing to trade higher ilevel as progression goes on.

We still don't know if dungeons get a different bonus or not

Calm your tits

[Arkura]

I don't agree on the ilvl restrictions, what if I had a 250 ilvl chest and a 245 ilvl tier chest dropped? Yes it's a lower ilvl but that might make my 2 or 4 set bonus which would be a DPS gain so it'd be reasonable to 'need' it imo

Well creation catalyst solves that problem

[Revamp Man]

Well creation catalyst solves that problem

Along with the removal those pointless restrictions