Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Dracullus]

That's a rather silly sentiment. Sounds and music are not something that generally requires much testing once the sound system is set up.

Lot of boys who cried wolf here. Every 5 minutes they have bad feelings and are "worried" about something. Some people were in constant panic mode between reveal and Alpha even back when we expected DF to launch next spring xD.

[Makabreska]

Lot of boys who cried wolf here. Every 5 minutes they have bad feelings and are "worried" about something. Some people were in constant panic mode between reveal and Alpha even back when we expected DF to launch next spring xD.

"prIEsT anD DRuid devS havE LEft ThE CoMpaNy, THesE CLaSses aRe FuCKed!!!"

[Revamp Man]

Because they've demonstrated that half the time after they write new old god whispers, they either change their story plans or the content they were foreshadowing gets cut. So the whispers are now pointless. It's like Ed Boon's twitter account. (The Mortal Kombat franchise used to do this thing where they put tons of hints to secret content, but since the 3d era, they keep doing this but for secrets that don't exist. Making the hints pure trolling.)

The whispers always point to something unless we memory hole everything

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I'm still not getting it. Is something said that raises questions?

Yes they were talking about how they already have him in one line in another they said it's roots will run deep and they shall reach us

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Yeah, I really hope the M+ seasonal mount is a banger again

Gonna be a dragon skin but idk for which one because it seems each has only certain options

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

I mean the status of the expansion will not be clear until February when we get details about the post launch.

The base product could literally be anything and people will still preorder.

[Nymrohd]

I mean the status of the expansion will not be clear until February when we get details about the post launch.

The base product could literally be anything and people will still preorder.

Very much so. We cannot judge the expac by the release content. By that standard, WoD was an amazing expansion.

[UndedoKoleda]

"prIEsT anD DRuid devS havE LEft ThE CoMpaNy, THesE CLaSses aRe FuCKed!!!"

Nah, this one was funnier:

"BlIZZard Do NOT neEd To haVE a PUbLic BEtA ThIs timE, tHEY CAN tESt It InteRNALlY"

[Shakzor]

Nah, this one was funnier:

"BlIZZard Do NOT neEd To haVE a PUbLic BEtA ThIs timE, tHEY CAN tESt It InteRNALlY"

Well, it works for other games (including MMOs), it's just hell of a lot cheaper to let players beta test everything for free, rather than hiring QA companies or whatever to test everything.

[Rageonit]

Well, it works for other games (including MMOs), it's just hell of a lot cheaper to let players beta test everything for free, rather than hiring QA companies or whatever to test everything.

Like CDPRed did for Cyberpunk 2077? So they could later blame the same QA company for the plethora of bugs?
There's no need for this argument here. Whether you test something internally or not, it's always beneficial to also release a public beta if there are people willing to test things. After all, additional tests never hurt.

[FelPlague]

Can't help but to feel bit cynical about how the first expansion after the Big Discrimination Lawsuit has most queer representstion in the history of the game.

Shadowlands had a fair bit and even bfa had some, but people threw a fit.

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Eh, i'd say the bigger issue is that it doesn't really have a place in the story. WoW isn't about personal relationships. Its okay if characters just happen to be in a relationship, but putting it in the forefront like this is rather overdoing it and thus feels forced.

???? What??? Do you forget us seeing illidan tyrande and malfurion all the time, what about jaina, arthas, kalethas, and kalec, what about sargeras and Azeroth, sif and thorim, the first phase of azshara, the gnome/goblin couple, fucboi in all the lewd books, lothremar, genn and his wife, maraad, garona and medivh, turylon and alleria, sylvanas and nathanos, valleria and ronin, thrall and aggra, I mean there is a fuck load of relationships just front and center in wow...

This feels a lot like.

100 straight relationships. "No problem"
1 gay couple "ewwww why they gotta shove relationships into everything!?"

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You're way overstating both how common those are and the general impact. Illidan/Tyrande/Malfurion was a side note at best, always overshadowed by bigger issues while Jaina's relationships have little to no impact on anything and may as well not have happened for all the difference it makes.
Thrall's wedding had some importance, but who he got married to did not.
Azuregos and the Spirit Healer was little more than a joke.

And that's what, 4 relationships in 18 years of story?

Holy fuck did you just say jainas relationship didn't even matter and was a side note, you really gunna fucking say jaina and fucking arthas had no effect on the story, you serious?
Also 4 relationships in 18 years, bro try like 4 every patch atleast. I missed some of the ones he listed and I gave tons, and literally illidan and tyrande and malfurion a side thing? Literally every time we saw any of them it is brought up, illidans death he even cries about tyrande, malfurion darkshore, oh look tyrande.

Nevermind the COUNTLESS consorts we are introduced to of the dragons, nevermnd ones like sinestra.

[Civciv]

Did this guy legit say "What about Sargeras and Azeroth?" or am I dreaming? They weren't in a relationship.....

[FelPlague]

It's not that they are super impactful it's that wow has always had a ton of relationship stuff and it even takes senator stage from time to time, and no it's not just 4 those are just the most notable ones with big named characters.

off the top of my head there's.

mankrik and his wife
Kalecgos and Anveena
Lor'themar and Liadrin
Kael'thas and Jaina
Draka and Durotan
Ner'zhul and Rulkan
Sylvanas and Nathanos
Vereesa and Rhonin
Alleria and Turalyon

all of theses characters have pretty major story beats based around there relationships and all of them are big players one way or another (other then mankrik) and there are likely tons of other relationships both major and minor through out wow or characters who are defined about losing one half of there relationship.

Lothremar and fuck what's he name, the night borne woman, I'm tired, not liadrin. Also yeah the rest of these as well, also vareesa not valleria lol I'm dumb, but yeah wow is fucking FULL of relationships.

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Did this guy legit say "What about Sargeras and Azeroth?" or am I dreaming? They weren't in a relationship.....

Oh you didn't know? Sargeras fell in love with Azeroth and wanted to convert her to his side. For someone named herald of sargeras, you sure don't know everything about him. That's why he was brooding over her for so long trying to corrupt her and convert her, before pulling a "if I can't have her no one can" when we lock him away.


Also you can qoute people you know that right?

[Atticon]

Like CDPRed did for Cyberpunk 2077? So they could later blame the same QA company for the plethora of bugs?
There's no need for this argument here. Whether you test something internally or not, it's always beneficial to also release a public beta if there are people willing to test things. After all, additional tests never hurt.

FFXIV manages just fine without public testing, even with a decade of technical debt and spaghetti code now. I can't even recall when I last actually encountered a bug in live, save the Raubahn Extreme bottleneck back on Stormblood launch.
The only reason I see WoW benefitting from public testing is tuning and finding bugs in how abilities/talents/trinkets interact, as WoW's design in that regard is extremely chaotic as opposed to a very sanitized, homogenized FFXIV.

In the end though you're right in it not being about public testing being there or not: you still need to invest resources and time in QA and professional testing, preferably in-house.
Blaming external QA is always easy even though the problems always start in design and development.

[Lady Atia]

Very much so. We cannot judge the expac by the release content. By that standard, WoD was an amazing expansion.

Well, the first part of WoD (aswell as HFC itself) was a good expansion. So was Shadowlands, besides the drought and Korthia. Honestly, Shadowlands after the ripcord (which was at the time the team came together and started to change shortly after people like Afrasiabi got booted btw) already was miles ahead of BfA so I wouldn't worry about Dragonflight. If they can keep the patch speed we had since Sepulcher everything will turn out great.

[Shakzor]

Like CDPRed did for Cyberpunk 2077? So they could later blame the same QA company for the plethora of bugs?
There's no need for this argument here. Whether you test something internally or not, it's always beneficial to also release a public beta if there are people willing to test things. After all, additional tests never hurt.

Yes, like this one singular case...
Not like Monster Hunter, Yakuza, Forza, God of War, FallGuys, Pokemon Unite, any CoD, FIFA, FF14, Guild Wars 2 (iirc) or tons of other games.
This "let players beta test" is purely marketing and cost cutting. They don't get any more or better feedback by letting random players test their games.
And before you come with that, yes, games like CoD have "betas", but with them being like a weekend before launch, they're just glorified demos and have 0 impact on anything

[Rageonit]

Yes, like this one singular case...
Not like Monster Hunter, Yakuza, Forza, God of War, FallGuys, Pokemon Unite, any CoD, FIFA, FF14, Guild Wars 2 (iirc) or tons of other games.
This "let players beta test" is purely marketing and cost cutting. They don't get any more or better feedback by letting random players test their games.
And before you come with that, yes, games like CoD have "betas", but with them being like a weekend before launch, they're just glorified demos and have 0 impact on anything

One question that arises in my mind is which of those games has such complex interactions between (as of now) 38 specs - and if their internal teams (or external QA companies) are as experienced with those mechanics as are WoW players with the mentioned specs. Because for me, it feels like testing FIFA or Monster Hunter is rather different to testing WoW. Also, those WoW betas have a long standing tradition, and were (at least in the past, but I think still are) both praised and enjoyed by many players. So yeah, arguing that it's down to cost cutting is a bit mean spirited. If Blizzard suddenly decided NOT to do a public beta, we'd have a huge outcry.

[Shakzor]

One question that arises in my mind is which of those games has such complex interactions between (as of now) 38 specs - and if their internal teams (or external QA companies) are as experienced with those mechanics as are WoW players with the mentioned specs. Because for me, it feels like testing FIFA or Monster Hunter is rather different to testing WoW. Also, those WoW betas have a long standing tradition, and were (at least in the past, but I think still are) both praised and enjoyed by many players. So yeah, arguing that it's down to cost cutting is a bit mean spirited. If Blizzard suddenly decided NOT to do a public beta, we'd have a huge outcry.

Monster Hunter has... i think 18 weapon types, which all also need extensive testing against all sorts of monsters in different terrains. Meaning you can get into a LOT of different scenarios, to make sure none of them feel useless.
Other games i mentioned are fricking long in playlength, meaning you need to test like 100+ hours for a casual playthrough, which people can play differently in approach.
And what about Guild Wars or FF14? Yes, WoW has a lot more specs, but they rarely do HUGE shifts like with Survival going melee or demonology becoming all about summong minor pets and just iterate more on themselves. Most talents are existing spells, passives and abilities or returning ones, which barely need any testing.

Yes, a game like Red Dead Redemption needs different kinds of testing, but a lot of what you mention is just number tweaking and making sure stuff doesn't go into infinite loops or things like that. But there are plenty of games with FUCKTONS of content that needs to be tested, that make due without player betas. And just because it's "WoW tradition", doesn't mean it's a good tradition. At this point, the game always gets "solved" before it even launches, be it patches or expansions and you get insulted when you set foot in a raid the day it opens and don't already know all bosses in and out (although a lot of that is a playerbase issue)

[Rageonit]

And what about Guild Wars or FF14? Yes, WoW has a lot more specs, but they rarely do HUGE shifts like with Survival going melee or demonology becoming all about summong minor pets and just iterate more on themselves. Most talents are existing spells, passives and abilities or returning ones, which barely need any testing.

Are you serious? WoW has so many interactions between specs that adding a single ability for all of them (remember the Covenant debacle...?) can shift the scales completely, making useless specs OP just like that. Not to mention WoW is A LOT more competitive game than FF14 and people expect perfect balance in all types of content: m+, raids and PvP. No, FF14 or GW2 can't even compare.

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At this point, the game always gets "solved" before it even launches, be it patches or expansions and you get insulted when you set foot in a raid the day it opens and don't already know all bosses in and out (although a lot of that is a playerbase issue)

Yeah, but no. Reading forums these days makes you think if you make a single mistake in the game, you will be eaten alive. Get a grip. How many people do you think even play beta...? But suddenly all the groups you land in expect you to know every single encounter on release day. Yeah, but no.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I'd rather have a PTR then no testing realm at all.

[AngerFork]

I'd rather have a PTR then no testing realm at all.

Honestly, I'm not so sure I would. If the trade off for not having a PTR is the content stays fresher longer & we get to find out the spoilers with the story rather than because of someone in trade chat, I'd be all for it. Some feedback is responded to well enough in PTR, but I have to wonder how much worse it makes things for Blizz when someone's (particularly streamers) specific pet issue they found in PTR isn't fixed by the time the game goes live.

I have to wonder if they couldn't offset the gain on some features like talent trees or new classes by simply giving us a long pre-patch to report findings (like 2 months or so).

[Makabreska]

Honestly, I'm not so sure I would. If the trade off for not having a PTR is the content stays fresher longer & we get to find out the spoilers with the story rather than because of someone in trade chat, I'd be all for it. Some feedback is responded to well enough in PTR, but I have to wonder how much worse it makes things for Blizz when someone's (particularly streamers) specific pet issue they found in PTR isn't fixed by the time the game goes live.

I have to wonder if they couldn't offset the gain on some features like talent trees or new classes by simply giving us a long pre-patch to report findings (like 2 months or so).

You always risk that, unless you are one of the first who complete the story. You can simply avoid any PTR news, most of them post spoilers warning anyway.