1. #68301
    Legendary! Makabreska's Avatar
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    Meanwhile, Spriest looks dope. Just learned about an AoE build that doesn't even take Mind Sear. Unreal how better spec plays if you don't have to manually multidot.
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2022-09-27 at 07:03 PM.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  2. #68302
    O just find it amusing/aggravating that the empower mechanic would work so much better for so many other classes more suited to the turret niche.
    Empowered Firebolt, or empowered Aimed Shot for instance.

    Evoker will likely have the same issues that DH has. The DPS specs especially.
    Both are created top down, rather than starting from a base of interesting playstyle, and then figuring out how to fit it into the class theme.

    Havoc was created from the idea of playing a Demon Hunter, but it's clear that noone really knew what that would mean beyond eye beam, glaives, and metamorphosis. This makes the spec kinda anemic.

    The Evoker class is similar. They have a great idea of playing a dragon, but not really a whole lot on how to make playing a dragon interesting in combat.
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  3. #68303
    Scarab Lord Nymrohd's Avatar
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    So I'm at 70 for a few hours now. I have so many things to do. But I have to say I am seeing nothing like a task list? I haven't unlocked any world quest or anything similar, I've barely seen any dailies around. There are so many sidequests in Dragonflight that they can keep me busy forever (and then there is the instance gameplay that one can play for ever if they want to ofc) and more world events seem to open up with new renown levels. I repeat, I do not mind it at all, it just seems jarring after every expansion from MoP after giving your a very clear list of tasks to do on the daily.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    That doesn't sound boring at all.
    Most of the spells seem to have no impact. But hey if you love that, sure.

  4. #68304
    Hopefully Evoker gets some improvements over time. Tier Sets might make a small difference even, who knows.

    But really the current situation with Evoker is basically the carbon copy of how DH was at the start of Legion. Interesting premise, with a subpar execution.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  5. #68305
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Meanwhile, Spriest looks dope. Just learned about an AoE build that doesn't even take Mind Sear. Unreal how better spec plays if you don't have to manually multidot.
    Yea shadow is winning on all front imo. I am very pleased. Even the proc build with mind spike and dp is a lot of fun at 70. I

  6. #68306
    Quote Originally Posted by draugril View Post
    I always thought this would have been a better end for WoD instead of demons again. The alternate Alliance invading Draenor after Jaina takes on Gul’dan’s role and warns Azeroth of what happened in the First War. Causing the Alliance to do a pre-emptive strike, taking out the Iron Horde, our Horde, and our Alliance. Why our Alliance? Because the First War heroes were true paragons of the virtues of the Alliance. The current leaders don’t live up to those ideals. It would be a sobering experience for our Alliance, at war for 30 or so years, to realize how twisted by conflict they’ve become. To the point that their heroes view them the same as Orcs.
    The whole purpose of alternate universe 'what if' scenarios is to explore exactly these kinds of ideas!

    What we got was super disappointing, id have loved to see 'what if the horde heroes were never corrupted' and what we got from the alternate reality was 'what if the horde heroes were simply always evil'.
    I guess the main purpose was revitalising draenor, the original script I think was doing a cata level rework on Outland but I guess they didn't like the thought of deleting a continent.
    I'd say bringing in the alliance as the end threat might have been introducing too many characters but honestly if they replaced the legion it would have been fine. imagine wods end patch having he kings of azeroth invading and squaring off against the warlords and needing to stop the alliance from wiping out the orcs.

    Honestly I don't care how ridiculous the story would be because time travel is a nonsense fever dream anyway, but having the alliance as the aggressors would have been SO much more fun than going from an X-Pac where orcs are evil to orcs being evil.

  7. #68307
    Scarab Lord Nymrohd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Hopefully Evoker gets some improvements over time. Tier Sets might make a small difference even, who knows.

    But really the current situation with Evoker is basically the carbon copy of how DH was at the start of Legion. Interesting premise, with a subpar execution.
    At least demon hunters played fast

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    Quote Originally Posted by bloodmoth13 View Post
    The whole purpose of alternate universe 'what if' scenarios is to explore exactly these kinds of ideas!

    What we got was super disappointing, id have loved to see 'what if the horde heroes were never corrupted' and what we got from the alternate reality was 'what if the horde heroes were simply always evil'.
    I guess the main purpose was revitalising draenor, the original script I think was doing a cata level rework on Outland but I guess they didn't like the thought of deleting a continent.
    I'd say bringing in the alliance as the end threat might have been introducing too many characters but honestly if they replaced the legion it would have been fine. imagine wods end patch having he kings of azeroth invading and squaring off against the warlords and needing to stop the alliance from wiping out the orcs.

    Honestly I don't care how ridiculous the story would be because time travel is a nonsense fever dream anyway, but having the alliance as the aggressors would have been SO much more fun than going from an X-Pac where orcs are evil to orcs being evil.
    Honestly imagine the Alliance invading, actually being a righteous alliance who is being misled by Medivh who is also Sargeras in that AU and using them to invade our reality to save Azeroth from us.

  8. #68308
    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    While Evokers are kinda shit, the fact that they 25yard range is not an issue unless raids were not designed with that in mind.

    Same with them being "non-mobile". You have three charges of Hover, and you only need to cast two Empowered Spells every 30 seconds anyway, and one of them is a Level 1 Empowerment most the time anyway.

    The real issue is that they are boring. Pyre is useless. Azure Strike is useless. Deep Breath is useless. Their cooldown is boring. Their mastery is boring. They have no big ability. Their rotation is 1.) Use your Empowerments off CD 2.) Spam Disintegration 3.) Cast Flamestrike 4.) Cast Pyre at 20 Stacks.
    While the range is not so much of an issue for Devastation, it comes an issue for Preservation the moment other healer outclass them - and they do, in basically everything. Heck, Monk and Druid are even more mobile than Evoker, which takes away the only plus that Evoker is said to have.

    The problem is, Evoker doesn't serve any purpose. The class brings absolutely nothing that others don't bring and on top of that, do better than Evoker. There's an inherent issue with its class design because right now, it wouldn't make a difference if you have Evoker or not. The class only fulfills the "Dragon" fantasy somehow, and not even in that regard it's doing a good job. Besides that, the class is just so underwhelming and boring. I'm going to main one, because I'm burnt out of all the other healers, but the issues are far and wide with both Evoker specs. And Blizzard already announced they are mostly just doing tuning now, which is not Evoker's main concern. So the class will release in this state and if there are major changes, they will come with 10.1 - which might be too late, to make the class popular. I fear they'll be the new Monks when it comes to popularity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    O just find it amusing/aggravating that the empower mechanic would work so much better for so many other classes more suited to the turret niche.
    Empowered Firebolt, or empowered Aimed Shot for instance.

    Evoker will likely have the same issues that DH has. The DPS specs especially.
    Both are created top down, rather than starting from a base of interesting playstyle, and then figuring out how to fit it into the class theme.

    Havoc was created from the idea of playing a Demon Hunter, but it's clear that noone really knew what that would mean beyond eye beam, glaives, and metamorphosis. This makes the spec kinda anemic.

    The Evoker class is similar. They have a great idea of playing a dragon, but not really a whole lot on how to make playing a dragon interesting in combat.
    Exactly. Casting skills with a 3,5 second duration and being rooted for that time in a place is the exact opposite of the supposedly very mobile and fast gameplay. I don't know why they tried to combine both aspects in a class. It just doesn't work.

    They put a lot of time into Preservation and it shows, with 40y range the spec could be good and find its niche. But Devastation? It's a dead spec, in PvP even moreso than in PvE. Most of the time and effort clearly went into Preservation, which has a lot of unique ideas and playstyles. Devastation? Nothing innovative or fresh at all. It's as you said, mirroring the lifelessness of Havoc DH.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Meanwhile, Spriest looks dope. Just learned about an AoE build that doesn't even take Mind Sear. Unreal how better spec plays if you don't have to manually multidot.
    Have to agree. Shadow Priest and Balance Druid are looking amazing. They did a great job with both specs.
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  9. #68309
    Scarab Lord Nymrohd's Avatar
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    Btw while the tier sets we are getting are not bad looking, anyone else hoping they quit it with the monochrome glowy crap?

  10. #68310
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    While the range is not so much of an issue for Devastation, it comes an issue for Preservation the moment other healer outclass them - and they do, in basically everything. Heck, Monk and Druid are even more mobile than Evoker, which takes away the only plus that Evoker is said to have.

    The problem is, Evoker doesn't serve any purpose. The class brings absolutely nothing that others don't bring and on top of that, do better than Evoker. There's an inherent issue with its class design because right now, it wouldn't make a difference if you have Evoker or not. The class only fulfills the "Dragon" fantasy somehow, and not even in that regard it's doing a good job. Besides that, the class is just so underwhelming and boring. I'm going to main one, because I'm burnt out of all the other healers, but the issues are far and wide with both Evoker specs. And Blizzard already announced they are mostly just doing tuning now, which is not Evoker's main concern. So the class will release in this state and if there are major changes, they will come with 10.1 - which might be too late, to make the class popular. I fear they'll be the new Monks when it comes to popularity.

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    Exactly. Casting skills with a 3,5 second duration and being rooted for that time in a place is the exact opposite of the supposedly very mobile and fast gameplay. I don't know why they tried to combine both aspects in a class. It just doesn't work.

    They put a lot of time into Preservation and it shows, with 40y range the spec could be good and find its niche. But Devastation? It's a dead spec, in PvP even moreso than in PvE. Most of the time and effort clearly went into Preservation, which has a lot of unique ideas and playstyles. Devastation? Nothing innovative or fresh at all. It's as you said, mirroring the lifelessness of Havoc DH.

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    Have to agree. Shadow Priest and Balance Druid are looking amazing. They did a great job with both specs.
    True, I've heard that the Healing Evoker is pretty shit and nigh unviable.

    Evoker to me feels like they had an idea of "Dragons" and no idea how to actually implement that, which is sad.

    I am mostly speaking from a DPS perspective.

    I mean, I wouldn't say that Evokers bring nothing. Source of Magic is a great cooldown for Healers, their Shield-Breaking spell might have some cheese potential, Group Mobility is really undervalued by people which they bring a lot of and they got a big raid damage reduction plus a better priest grip, and funnily enough, they will bring a big DPS boost to Demon Hunters, but even then, outside of that, DPS-wise, they don't really have anything. They have good single target, but once it goes to even remotely multi-target, the spec just falls apart and becomes incredibly clunky to play.

    Empowering is probably the biggest class-design flop in recent memory. They hyped it up like this huge thing, and at the end of the day, you have two spells that are empowered and for one, you just use it at Max Charge every single time, and for the other one, you just use it at Level 1 (if it's single target). No thought required.

    I love everything else about Evokers, I love how they look, I love the concept of Visage Form, I love their racials (a bit miffed about transmogs, but eh), but they really dropped the ball on it. Balance Druids got like 10 different talent trees while for Evokers, they just dumbed down and dumbed down the tree into a playstyle where you only use one spell.

  11. #68311
    Herald of the Titans Lady Atia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Btw while the tier sets we are getting are not bad looking, anyone else hoping they quit it with the monochrome glowy crap?
    No? Unlike with Shadowlands sets, this time we are actually getting the nice glow for all sets - quite a step in the right direction. Literally none of the sets looks shit this time around, so everyone wins. Unlike f.e. Sanctum sets which got dumped down just for the Elite/Mythic tints ...

    If you dislike glow, just get leveling gear or older transmog instead?^^

  12. #68312
    Nothing exciting right now?

  13. #68313
    Immortal Shadochi's Avatar
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    Also for people that were hoping other races might be evoker, thats not happening at least in DF. Since they obviously put a couple of nodes that affect Dracthyr racial abilities in the class talent tree for evoker

  14. #68314
    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    True, I've heard that the Healing Evoker is pretty shit and nigh unviable.

    Evoker to me feels like they had an idea of "Dragons" and no idea how to actually implement that, which is sad.

    I am mostly speaking from a DPS perspective.

    I mean, I wouldn't say that Evokers bring nothing. Source of Magic is a great cooldown for Healers, their Shield-Breaking spell might have some cheese potential, Group Mobility is really undervalued by people which they bring a lot of and they got a big raid damage reduction plus a better priest grip, and funnily enough, they will bring a big DPS boost to Demon Hunters, but even then, outside of that, DPS-wise, they don't really have anything. They have good single target, but once it goes to even remotely multi-target, the spec just falls apart and becomes incredibly clunky to play.

    Empowering is probably the biggest class-design flop in recent memory. They hyped it up like this huge thing, and at the end of the day, you have two spells that are empowered and for one, you just use it at Max Charge every single time, and for the other one, you just use it at Level 1 (if it's single target). No thought required.

    I love everything else about Evokers, I love how they look, I love the concept of Visage Form, I love their racials (a bit miffed about transmogs, but eh), but they really dropped the ball on it. Balance Druids got like 10 different talent trees while for Evokers, they just dumbed down and dumbed down the tree into a playstyle where you only use one spell.
    Yeah, with Balance Druid and Shadow Priest they really showed what versatility and several builds can mean. Devastation has basically... one build, because the talents are so bad that you have not much choice anyway. As I said, Preservation looks great and is just severely undertuned and held back by its limited range and the failure of empowered spells in general - besides that? Good spec, fresh new ideas and some great potential. Devastation? There is just nothing there. The worst part is, that the limited range is just arbitrary and has basically zero pay off. Right now it's just a net loss overall that is compensated by nothing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadochi View Post
    Also for people that were hoping other races might be evoker, thats not happening at least in DF. Since they obviously put a couple of nodes that affect Dracthyr racial abilities in the class talent tree for evoker
    Evoker for other races was just a red herring to not have to give the final "no". Like honestly, who's expecting Goblin or Draenei Evoker? It ain't happening. They'd have to remake the entire Hover mechanic which is a centerpiece of Evoker's so called mobility (I mean they could make it some type of levitating, but that would be pretty terrible).
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  15. #68315
    Immortal Shadochi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post

    Evoker for other races was just a red herring to not have to give the final "no". Like honestly, who's expecting Goblin or Draenei Evoker? It ain't happening. They'd have to remake the entire Hover mechanic which is a centerpiece of Evoker's so called mobility (I mean they could make it some type of levitating, but that would be pretty terrible).
    I agree, however what I would like more is for Drachtyr to be other classes. But it seems for at least the time being dracthyr and evoker are synonyms for the same thing

  16. #68316
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadochi View Post
    I agree, however what I would like more is for Drachtyr to be other classes. But it seems for at least the time being dracthyr and evoker are synonyms for the same thing
    I think giving Dracthyr classes like Mage, Warlock or Priest is pretty easy and will be done (only classes that do not have a melee spec). Whereas I'm fairly certain that Evoker will forever be a Dracthyr exclusive class.
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  17. #68317
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Btw while the tier sets we are getting are not bad looking, anyone else hoping they quit it with the monochrome glowy crap?
    I do.. I get flashbacks from every weapon in Legion almost. Hated these neon lights especially unholy and ret skins. Ew. Neon lights need to die asap.

    With that being said, I cant even remember not transmogging current sets.
    Last edited by Alanar; 2022-09-27 at 09:42 PM.

  18. #68318
    Herald of the Titans Lady Atia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadochi View Post
    Also for people that were hoping other races might be evoker, thats not happening at least in DF. Since they obviously put a couple of nodes that affect Dracthyr racial abilities in the class talent tree for evoker
    Yeah, because Evokers are Dracthyr. It wouldn't make any sense to release other races for them haha.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    So I'm at 70 for a few hours now. I have so many things to do. But I have to say I am seeing nothing like a task list? I haven't unlocked any world quest or anything similar, I've barely seen any dailies around. There are so many sidequests in Dragonflight that they can keep me busy forever (and then there is the instance gameplay that one can play for ever if they want to ofc) and more world events seem to open up with new renown levels. I repeat, I do not mind it at all, it just seems jarring after every expansion from MoP after giving your a very clear list of tasks to do on the daily.

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    Most of the spells seem to have no impact. But hey if you love that, sure.
    You unlock worldquests via the leveling campaign (as soon as lvl 68). Did you skipped that and focused on side quests instead to reach max level?

  19. #68319
    Hopefully tomorrow we will have final build before tuning phase. Wanted to check few specs, but felt like waste of time when there could be rework any moment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    Yeah, because Evokers are Dracthyr. It wouldn't make any sense to release other races for them haha.
    I could see Dracthyr getting some new classes. But what's the point of giving Evoker to other races, just give them as option for visage and you get something even better.
    Last edited by Dracullus; 2022-09-27 at 10:02 PM.

  20. #68320
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Btw while the tier sets we are getting are not bad looking, anyone else hoping they quit it with the monochrome glowy crap?
    Most of them look good individually. But I think it stifles creativity a bit to keep them unified in color scheme. I think for the whole primal theme it fits well. But either way, I think its going to get old in a few tiers from now.

    Still infinitely better than what we got from 8.0 -> 9.1.

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