Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Nymrohd]

Guys, I can't believe even here people speculate Group Loot is a beta-only thing, just for testing. /facepalm

Sure, if it's bugged or it sucks in another way, it'll get changed, but otherwise, this is what we're going to get in live Dragonflight, too.

I personally don't mind this being just Group Loot, but I can see them adding Master Loot as an option for guild groups, too.

You really don't see the problem for the fairly popular PuG raiding?

[Nathanyel]

You really don't see the problem for the fairly popular PuG raiding?

I barely addressed this, but sure, there can be issues, with e.g. a Warrior needing a Caster weapon just for the Mog, but then they are kicked from the group.
It's honestly not that different from someone refusing to trade the personal loot they got, despite having an item 6 iLvl higher.

[Arkura]

You really don't see the problem for the fairly popular PuG raiding?

Master loot was not any better imo, before you joined you had to check if a gazillion items were reserved. If Blizz does this correctly it can work out, making it so people who dont need or cant even use an itemnis unable to need it. Could also make it so you cannot need roll if you have higher ilvl in that slot and before you say you can just take it before pull I dont see why this shouldnt include items in your bag.

If Blizz want us to get the feeling of winning loot again so badly they should just add a loot or money dice to the personal loot so basically you can see if the boss gives you loot or not much like a coin roll from mop and onwards. Aslong as we have a fair loot distribution system I dont mind either way.

[gcsmith]

You really don't see the problem for the fairly popular PuG raiding?

Nope, because It worked fairly well back in the day too. Because PUGs establish the rules before hand.
The only issue is blizzard bringing this back without the Customer Support.

[Makorus]

I mean, dedicated Raiding Guilds don't give a shit whether it is Personal Loot, Group Loot or Master Loot, as long as the Trading Restrictions are gone. Personal Loot is just Master Loot by proxy, just like Group Loot. The Raid Leader needs on everything, everyone elses passes, and then you trade it to the respective person.

But by making it Group Loot, Blizzard fucked over PUGs really badly. Should have just kept it Personal Loot without the Trade Restrictions, and that way you also avoid the "No Hunter but bow drops" issue.

[Lahis]

I mean people would just need everything I assume. Which as you said would be terrible. Only way to do LFR would be to leave raid chat.

That's how Dragon Soul LFR worked.

[Makorus]

This whole LFR Debate is completely pointless.

It was personal loot before personal loot was even a thing.

It was "Personal Loot" when ordinary loot was Group/Master Loot (i.e. WOD/Legion). Why would it be different now?

[Dracullus]

People still gear up in LFR? World content gives faster and higher loot since like 6.2, so 7 years ago.

[Shadochi]

People still gear up in LFR? World content gives faster and higher loot since like 6.2, so 7 years ago.

Yeah... no...
Might've been the case up to S3, but not now in S4. Where in the open world can I get 265-272 pieces?

But even beyond that, yes some people do gear in LFR, world loot even if same item level might have worse itemization than open world loot, and trinkets and special effect items (weapons usually) are better from raid.
Also there is the whole point of people going into LFR just to get the LFR version of transmog which is affected by loot rules.

Now OT: LFR is probably gonna stay as is for loot

[huth]

That's how Dragon Soul LFR worked.

Or rather, didn't.

[Sondrelk]

Or rather, didn't.

No it really was. Everyone needed on everything they could possibly use. Either because they didn't know how the game worked, or because they were trolling. If someone got double weapons they tended to just ignore those who also needed one, again because they either didn't know how to trade, or actually considered the gold important.

Personal loot was added for the express purpose of making gearing in LFR painless.

[klaps_05]

Actually like the Group loot change - the social experiment known as personal loot can finally end, after making ppl suffer through it for years.

[Avikur]

Master loot was not any better imo, before you joined you had to check if a gazillion items were reserved. If Blizz does this correctly it can work out, making it so people who dont need or cant even use an itemnis unable to need it. Could also make it so you cannot need roll if you have higher ilvl in that slot and before you say you can just take it before pull I dont see why this shouldnt include items in your bag.

If Blizz want us to get the feeling of winning loot again so badly they should just add a loot or money dice to the personal loot so basically you can see if the boss gives you loot or not much like a coin roll from mop and onwards. Aslong as we have a fair loot distribution system I dont mind either way.

I don't agree on the ilvl restrictions, what if I had a 250 ilvl chest and a 245 ilvl tier chest dropped? Yes it's a lower ilvl but that might make my 2 or 4 set bonus which would be a DPS gain so it'd be reasonable to 'need' it imo

[Makorus]

No it really was. Everyone needed on everything they could possibly use. Either because they didn't know how the game worked, or because they were trolling. If someone got double weapons they tended to just ignore those who also needed one, again because they either didn't know how to trade, or actually considered the gold important.

Personal loot was added for the express purpose of making gearing in LFR painless.

No, it wasn't.

LFR was "personal loot" since MoP, but not the personal loot they introduced in Legion(?)

[Dracullus]

Yeah... no...
Might've been the case up to S3, but not now in S4. Where in the open world can I get 265-272 pieces

Season 4 is exception, world content wasn't updated so LFR has better gear first time since Blackrock Foundry days.

[[Apok]]

Actually like the Group loot change - the social experiment known as personal loot can finally end, after making ppl suffer through it for years.

Group loot is ass.

The only thing that made personal loot fail was the trading restrictions.

[huth]

No it really was. Everyone needed on everything they could possibly use. Either because they didn't know how the game worked, or because they were trolling. If someone got double weapons they tended to just ignore those who also needed one, again because they either didn't know how to trade, or actually considered the gold important.

Personal loot was added for the express purpose of making gearing in LFR painless.

You misunderstood. Yes, that's how it was implemented. It also didn't work as a system in the least.

- - - Updated - - -

Actually like the Group loot change - the social experiment known as personal loot can finally end, after making ppl suffer through it for years.

Eh, it was less suffering than the days of group loot. I imagine this new experiment won't last nearly as long.

[Lahis]

No, it wasn't.

LFR was "personal loot" since MoP, but not the personal loot they introduced in Legion(?)

Yes, because Dragon Soul LFR, the first LFR, was complete shitshow with group loot.

That is what pushed Blizzard into making personal loot first for LFR, later to everything.

[Arafal]

I do not look forward to dealing with strangers needing items they don't actually need out of spite, trolling, or just decide to fuck you over because they want the transmog appearance.

[Lady Atia]

I do not look forward to dealing with strangers needing items they don't actually need out of spite, trolling, or just decide to fuck you over because they want the transmog appearance.

Again, why would wanting a transmog appearance be "deciding to fuck over other people"? I couldn't care less for stats, I'm playing for the collections. If someone helps down a boss they have the same right to roll for gear as anyone else, even if the "stats aren't better for them".