Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Makabreska]

Ress sickness change:

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Again, why would wanting a transmog appearance be "deciding to fuck over other people"? I couldn't care less for stats, I'm playing for the collections. If someone helps down a boss they have the same right to roll for gear as anyone else, even if the "stats aren't better for them".

Because people will and have done what they want selfishly even though its kinda a dick move. I'm no fan of personal loot persay but he's not wrong.

[Lady Atia]

Because people will and have done what they want selfishly even though its kinda a dick move. I'm no fan of personal loot persay but he's not wrong.

But they can do exactly the same with personal loot too? I can get an item I already own and wear and still just sell it to a vendor instead of rolling it out, right now, on life server. Or even better, I just never loot a boss and wait for the mail to arrive like on christmas morning - we actually had exactly that with a mythic raid trial.

Also I think we already got a datamine that it's kinda prohibited the roll of need if you already got a better item (which again, I disagree with - sometimes an item with different stats may be better than what you want, or you just want the transmog and imo deserve the item just as much as some random who happens to wear blues and greens).

[Kiriastrasza]

But they can do exactly the same with personal loot too? I can get an item I already own and wear and still just sell it to a vendor instead of rolling it out, right now, on life server. Group loot changes nothing regarding that?

But it does, with Group loot your are given the OPTION to take a piece of gear that's a huge upgrade for another person or just just be a dick about it, but with PL you don't get a say in whether you can take that item away from that person as their luck awarded them that item and not you.

[Arafal]

I couldn't care less for stats, I'm playing for the collections.

This is a game where people spend their time and money so they can progress their character.
You might not value character progression, but the rest of the playerbase does.

You needing on an item another player could've used to progress their character, just so it can sit in your bag for 1 minutes before you delete it or sell it for 15 gold is an incredible fucking dickmove.
If you don't want people to view you as a piece of shit, then don't need on items that you don't literally need.

ESPECIALLY fucking nowadays where you have a multitude of ways to collect a specific item appearance.
Just take the less disrupting route instead.

[Lady Atia]

But it does, with Group loot your are given the OPTION to take a piece of gear that's a huge upgrade for another person or just just be a dick about it, but with PL you don't get a say in whether you can take that item away from that person as their luck awarded them that item and not you.

No, it's literally the same thing. The only difference is that with perso loot, the game is rolling "need" for anyone who is eligable to get that item. Hence you can end up with an item thats no upgrade for you that you can than either roll out, or just sell or idk put on your bank. At the end of the day, group loot is just as luck dependend as perso loot, as both systems work with a roll. You just don't see the perso loot roll right now :X

[Kiriastrasza]

This is a game where people spend their time and money so they can progress their character.
You might not value character progression, but the rest of the playerbase does.

You needing on an item another player could've used to progress their character, just so it can sit in your bag for 1 minutes before you delete it or sell it for 15 gold is an incredible fucking dickmove.
If you don't want people to view you as a piece of shit, then don't need on items that you don't literally need.

ESPECIALLY fucking nowadays where you have a multitude of ways to collect a specific item appearance.
Just take the less disrupting route instead.

All I can say to this is well said tbh, this is gonna cause alsorts of issues, Blizz are so dumb.

[Lady Atia]

This is a game where people spend their time and money so they can progress their character.
You might not value character progression, but the rest of the playerbase does.

You needing on an item another player could've used to progress their character, just so it can sit in your bag for 1 minutes before you delete it or sell it for 15 gold is an incredible fucking dickmove.
If you don't want people to view you as a piece of shit, then don't need on items that you don't literally need.

ESPECIALLY fucking nowadays where you have a multitude of ways to collect a specific item appearance.
Just take the less disrupting route instead.

But you can do literally the same with perso loot right now? No ones forcing people to roll out stuff if they already got a "better" item on life server, lol.

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All I can say to this is well said tbh, this is gonna cause alsorts of issues, Blizz are so dumb.

Maybe we should all wait and see how the new system is implemented before reacting to it? It's implied you won't be able to roll need if you don't need an item anyways.

[Kiriastrasza]

But you can do literally the same with perso loot right now? No ones forcing people to roll out stuff if they already got a "better" item on life server, lol.

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Maybe we should all wait and see how the new system is implemented before reacting to it? It's implied you won't be able to roll need if you don't need an item anyways.

Why wait? you can already see the shitshow in classic, GDKP, people rolling need on absolutely everything... This shit is outta control and people are too dumb to be given such a responsibility.

[micwini]

But you can do literally the same with perso loot right now? No ones forcing people to roll out stuff if they already got a "better" item on life server, lol.

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Maybe we should all wait and see how the new system is implemented before reacting to it? It's implied you won't be able to roll need if you don't need an item anyways.

Are you saying not giving away something you get is the same as taking something away from someone else? Because thats exactly the difference between keeping an item you got from personal loot and needing on an item you don't need.
Also, there is no need to wait at all. This shit has already been tried twice: Whenever Dragon Soul came out and whenever they reverted personal loot in dungeons in WoD. Both got massive backlash and in the WoD case, was quickly reverted to how it was. Group loot in pugs is unnecessary drama.

[Nathanyel]

No, it's literally the same thing. The only difference is that with perso loot, the game is rolling "need" for anyone who is eligable to get that item. Hence you can end up with an item thats no upgrade for you that you can than either roll out, or just sell or idk put on your bank. At the end of the day, group loot is just as luck dependend as perso loot, as both systems work with a roll. You just don't see the perso loot roll right now :X

Exactly this. Overall, you'll even mathematically have a slightly better chance to acquire loot with Group Loot, unless literally over 50% of people you play with are absolute dicks who won't trade loot they don't need slash pass on it.
And tbh if that's the case, you probably have more issues even killing bosses due to randoms causing a wipe, whether through inattentiveness of malicious trolling.

Why wait? you can already see the shitshow in classic, GDKP, people rolling need on absolutely everything...

Toxicity in Classic is hardly surprising, though. Especially the pug pool will be full of those players that left the live game due to "objectively bad things" such as new story beats and "wokeness".

[Gorsameth]

Ress sickness change:

good. a bigger material penalty (the durability loss) and less time penalty, since doing any combat with ress sickness is useless having to spirit ress just meant you would afk for 10 minutes waiting out the timer.

[Arafal]

But you can do literally the same with perso loot right now? No ones forcing people to roll out stuff if they already got a "better" item on life server, lol.

No, you can't.
As there is no item to roll for in personal loot.

Personal loot exists to automate item distribution, so the group doesn't have to deal with that fallout.
An item drops, someone gets it, and its theirs.
What they do with it is their decision.

Group loot actively involves the group in the item distribution, it asks everyone to roll on an item and then picks the highest roll.
The problem with that is the people involved, as often times you get a person that needs an item at the expense of everyone else in the group.

[Caiphon]

Exactly this. Overall, you'll even mathematically have a slightly better chance to acquire loot with Group Loot, unless literally over 50% of people you play with are absolute dicks who won't trade loot they don't need slash pass on it.
And tbh if that's the case, you probably have more issues even killing bosses due to randoms causing a wipe, whether through inattentiveness of malicious trolling.

Not necessarily, even dicks often have the capacity to cooperate with others when it fits their needs. They want to kill the boss as much as anyone else in the party, but as soon as the boss is down they just automatically roll need on everything because 'the lulz'. And then you have people who roll need on downgrades because they look pretty, they have lore value, and so on. There are plenty of scenarios where drama can arise after successfully clearing the raid and each scenario has happened like 10,000 times each. You can tell a problem's serious when Blizz gets off their lazy bottoms to address it directly.

Toxicity in Classic is hardly surprising, though. Especially the pug pool will be full of those players that left the live game due to "objectively bad things" such as new story beats and "wokeness".

Thinking WoW's storytelling has been shit for a while qualifies you as toxic? In that case, judging by how well SL's story has been received by its playerbase retail will be just as toxic as classic is, if not more.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Thinking WoW's storytelling has been shit for a while qualifies you as toxic? In that case, judging by how well SL's story has been received by its playerbase retail will be just as toxic as classic is, if not more.

Thats not what he said though, notice how he said "Objectively bad things" If anything these toxic people probably aren't able to even explain why things are "Objectively bad" At best "Its bad" is a likely response.

[Nathanyel]

Not necessarily, even dicks often have the capacity to cooperate with others when it fits their needs. They want to kill the boss as much as anyone else in the party, but as soon as the boss is down they just automatically roll need on everything because 'the lulz'.

Yeah but one boss is not the entire raid. Unless the troll is the raid leader or friends with them, they'll soon be gone from the group.
Isn't that the social aspect that people want to bring back?

Thats not what he said though, notice how he said "Objectively bad things" If anything these toxic people probably aren't able to even explain why things are "Objectively bad" At best "Its bad" is a likely response.

Yes, that's what I meant. You can dislike anything, no one can refute your opinion, but there exists a subconscious need to feel "right" for not liking something, so if you don't bother to accept you simply don't like something (anymore) then it has to be "objectively bad" - not the actual words used, but that's the implication.
But I admit this is kinda getting off-topic, willing to drop this.

[Khaza-R]

Ress sickness change:

Good change. Personally I never understood why res sickness was ever a thing on PvE servers in the first place. The penalty should always just been gold.

[Caiphon]

Yeah but one boss is not the entire raid. Unless the troll is the raid leader or friends with them, they'll soon be gone from the group.
Isn't that the social aspect that people want to bring back?

I mean loot drama is a form of social interaction but I'm not sure if it's one people want back... when I was raiding Naxx we had people who would tag along the group just fine until Kel'thuzad then ninja loot those sweet weapons for example. Then there are cases where someone rolling need goes relatively unnoticed because they fail the roll, until eventually they get something they shouldn't etc. There's a certain immersion factor in group loot that I cannot deny but I personally don't think it's worth the potential frustration.

Yes, that's what I meant. You can dislike anything, no one can refute your opinion, but there exists a subconscious need to feel "right" for not liking something, so if you don't bother to accept you simply don't like something (anymore) then it has to be "objectively bad" - not the actual words used, but that's the implication.
But I admit this is kinda getting off-topic, willing to drop this.

While I do think there is such a thing as objectively bad storytelling you're right, this probably isn't the thread to discuss it.

[Forum Man]

Group loot is ass.

The only thing that made personal loot fail was the trading restrictions.

I mean I like personal loot especially without the restrictions which were 100% the most annoying part of the system

Group loot is still my preference simply because I am in a guild and the gear comes quick

[Koollan]

Personal loot artificially took out a social aspect of the game. Also eliminated a lot of the 'drop excitement' that groups would have. Seeing a fat stack of loot on the boss and doling it out. As much as personal loot "helps", it harms more than it helps. Ideally, there would be a combination of the two where you can see what everybody got and freely trade it amongst eachother.