Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[micwini]

But you can do literally the same with perso loot right now? No ones forcing people to roll out stuff if they already got a "better" item on life server, lol.

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Maybe we should all wait and see how the new system is implemented before reacting to it? It's implied you won't be able to roll need if you don't need an item anyways.

Are you saying not giving away something you get is the same as taking something away from someone else? Because thats exactly the difference between keeping an item you got from personal loot and needing on an item you don't need.
Also, there is no need to wait at all. This shit has already been tried twice: Whenever Dragon Soul came out and whenever they reverted personal loot in dungeons in WoD. Both got massive backlash and in the WoD case, was quickly reverted to how it was. Group loot in pugs is unnecessary drama.

[Nathanyel]

No, it's literally the same thing. The only difference is that with perso loot, the game is rolling "need" for anyone who is eligable to get that item. Hence you can end up with an item thats no upgrade for you that you can than either roll out, or just sell or idk put on your bank. At the end of the day, group loot is just as luck dependend as perso loot, as both systems work with a roll. You just don't see the perso loot roll right now :X

Exactly this. Overall, you'll even mathematically have a slightly better chance to acquire loot with Group Loot, unless literally over 50% of people you play with are absolute dicks who won't trade loot they don't need slash pass on it.
And tbh if that's the case, you probably have more issues even killing bosses due to randoms causing a wipe, whether through inattentiveness of malicious trolling.

Why wait? you can already see the shitshow in classic, GDKP, people rolling need on absolutely everything...

Toxicity in Classic is hardly surprising, though. Especially the pug pool will be full of those players that left the live game due to "objectively bad things" such as new story beats and "wokeness".

[Gorsameth]

Ress sickness change:

good. a bigger material penalty (the durability loss) and less time penalty, since doing any combat with ress sickness is useless having to spirit ress just meant you would afk for 10 minutes waiting out the timer.

[Raetary]

But you can do literally the same with perso loot right now? No ones forcing people to roll out stuff if they already got a "better" item on life server, lol.

No, you can't.
As there is no item to roll for in personal loot.

Personal loot exists to automate item distribution, so the group doesn't have to deal with that fallout.
An item drops, someone gets it, and its theirs.
What they do with it is their decision.

Group loot actively involves the group in the item distribution, it asks everyone to roll on an item and then picks the highest roll.
The problem with that is the people involved, as often times you get a person that needs an item at the expense of everyone else in the group.

[Caiphon]

Exactly this. Overall, you'll even mathematically have a slightly better chance to acquire loot with Group Loot, unless literally over 50% of people you play with are absolute dicks who won't trade loot they don't need slash pass on it.
And tbh if that's the case, you probably have more issues even killing bosses due to randoms causing a wipe, whether through inattentiveness of malicious trolling.

Not necessarily, even dicks often have the capacity to cooperate with others when it fits their needs. They want to kill the boss as much as anyone else in the party, but as soon as the boss is down they just automatically roll need on everything because 'the lulz'. And then you have people who roll need on downgrades because they look pretty, they have lore value, and so on. There are plenty of scenarios where drama can arise after successfully clearing the raid and each scenario has happened like 10,000 times each. You can tell a problem's serious when Blizz gets off their lazy bottoms to address it directly.

Toxicity in Classic is hardly surprising, though. Especially the pug pool will be full of those players that left the live game due to "objectively bad things" such as new story beats and "wokeness".

Thinking WoW's storytelling has been shit for a while qualifies you as toxic? In that case, judging by how well SL's story has been received by its playerbase retail will be just as toxic as classic is, if not more.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Thinking WoW's storytelling has been shit for a while qualifies you as toxic? In that case, judging by how well SL's story has been received by its playerbase retail will be just as toxic as classic is, if not more.

Thats not what he said though, notice how he said "Objectively bad things" If anything these toxic people probably aren't able to even explain why things are "Objectively bad" At best "Its bad" is a likely response.

[Nathanyel]

Not necessarily, even dicks often have the capacity to cooperate with others when it fits their needs. They want to kill the boss as much as anyone else in the party, but as soon as the boss is down they just automatically roll need on everything because 'the lulz'.

Yeah but one boss is not the entire raid. Unless the troll is the raid leader or friends with them, they'll soon be gone from the group.
Isn't that the social aspect that people want to bring back?

Thats not what he said though, notice how he said "Objectively bad things" If anything these toxic people probably aren't able to even explain why things are "Objectively bad" At best "Its bad" is a likely response.

Yes, that's what I meant. You can dislike anything, no one can refute your opinion, but there exists a subconscious need to feel "right" for not liking something, so if you don't bother to accept you simply don't like something (anymore) then it has to be "objectively bad" - not the actual words used, but that's the implication.
But I admit this is kinda getting off-topic, willing to drop this.

[Khaza-R]

Ress sickness change:

Good change. Personally I never understood why res sickness was ever a thing on PvE servers in the first place. The penalty should always just been gold.

[Caiphon]

Yeah but one boss is not the entire raid. Unless the troll is the raid leader or friends with them, they'll soon be gone from the group.
Isn't that the social aspect that people want to bring back?

I mean loot drama is a form of social interaction but I'm not sure if it's one people want back... when I was raiding Naxx we had people who would tag along the group just fine until Kel'thuzad then ninja loot those sweet weapons for example. Then there are cases where someone rolling need goes relatively unnoticed because they fail the roll, until eventually they get something they shouldn't etc. There's a certain immersion factor in group loot that I cannot deny but I personally don't think it's worth the potential frustration.

Yes, that's what I meant. You can dislike anything, no one can refute your opinion, but there exists a subconscious need to feel "right" for not liking something, so if you don't bother to accept you simply don't like something (anymore) then it has to be "objectively bad" - not the actual words used, but that's the implication.
But I admit this is kinda getting off-topic, willing to drop this.

While I do think there is such a thing as objectively bad storytelling you're right, this probably isn't the thread to discuss it.

[Revamp Man]

Group loot is ass.

The only thing that made personal loot fail was the trading restrictions.

I mean I like personal loot especially without the restrictions which were 100% the most annoying part of the system

Group loot is still my preference simply because I am in a guild and the gear comes quick

[Koollan]

Personal loot artificially took out a social aspect of the game. Also eliminated a lot of the 'drop excitement' that groups would have. Seeing a fat stack of loot on the boss and doling it out. As much as personal loot "helps", it harms more than it helps. Ideally, there would be a combination of the two where you can see what everybody got and freely trade it amongst eachother.

[huth]

good. a bigger material penalty (the durability loss) and less time penalty, since doing any combat with ress sickness is useless having to spirit ress just meant you would afk for 10 minutes waiting out the timer.

That's literally their reasoning for the change even. People just took it as "don't play for 10 minutes", which ultimately isn't in Blizzard's interest.

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No, it's literally the same thing. The only difference is that with perso loot, the game is rolling "need" for anyone who is eligable to get that item. Hence you can end up with an item thats no upgrade for you that you can than either roll out, or just sell or idk put on your bank. At the end of the day, group loot is just as luck dependend as perso loot, as both systems work with a roll. You just don't see the perso loot roll right now :X

It isn't. With Personal Loot, it's the game making the decision of who gets something. With Group Loot, it's YOU.

[Makabreska]

Aaaaand we are back to BiS lists, loot councils and never ending discussion after boss kill.

[huth]

Personal loot artificially took out a social aspect of the game. Also eliminated a lot of the 'drop excitement' that groups would have. Seeing a fat stack of loot on the boss and doling it out. As much as personal loot "helps", it harms more than it helps. Ideally, there would be a combination of the two where you can see what everybody got and freely trade it amongst eachother.

What social aspect? Clicking a button is not a social aspect. Personal Loot is more social than Group on that matter since you actually need to talk to the person that got the drop.

[Lahis]

Aaaaand we are back to BiS lists, loot councils and never ending discussion after boss kill.

That's how it has always been. Last few years just has wasted bunch of loot because we couldn't trade it due to bullshit ilvl requirements.

[Makabreska]

That's how it has always been. Last few years just has wasted bunch of loot because we couldn't trade it due to bullshit ilvl requirements.

"How it has always been" does not mean it was good. I prefer occasional loot wasted than what we are about to get.

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Yay, more guild breaks and arguments to be had...

But this time on Discord/Twitch.

TBH if a person leaves/guild breaks because of loot drama, then there was something more going on and shit would probably go down anyway.

[Revamp Man]

Aaaaand we are back to BiS lists, loot councils and never ending discussion after boss kill.

Sounds like a shit guild

[Makabreska]

Sounds like a shit guild

Ye, only shit guilds form loot councils and tell people to prep their BiS lists for easier loot distribution. And we all know that no decent guild has any type of argument regarding loot when Group Loot is active.

[Bsirk]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/world-o...er-28th-329093

November 28th it is.

[LordyLordy]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/world-o...er-28th-329093

November 28th it is.

Two months! Time to *squee*