Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Varodoc]

Even then it's not so easy. He literally watched Xe'ra die. Got really pissed for a few minutes (and rightfully so, he watched some demonic looking guy kill her) but then calmed down and kept going.

Now the vocal haters online are trying to argue that Turalyon wanting tight security around the Dracthyr is a sign of "villainy".

Even though, as Turalyon calmly explains to his subordinates, his advisors informed him that the last time a dragon went to Stormwind under mortal guise, the entire kingdom was engulfed by civil war and corruption, which were all started by said dragon disguised as mortal.

Turalyon is very wise and reasonable to place the Dracthyr and their visage forms under strict security.

[Revamp Man]

Doesn't fix the underlying issue.

People who do normal/heroic raid can subscribe for the launch and get to experience the launch + the entire raid and its accompanying story.

Casual players can subscribe for launch, but then have to subscribe again for the rest of the raid.

Or they pug into normal
They give you the tools it's up to you to use them

[Koollan]

Lolno. Any half serious raiding guild will be using Council and wont allow loot being distributed willy-nilly. How strong is this trinket for X spec? How many tier pieces this guy already has? How good is haste on this ring for that guy? All this will be taken into consideration.

I can concede that as a group people would be considering what item is good for what person. Though, if you have a 'loot council' in your guild, you're either a Mythic Prog guild that has strict requirements in the first place, or you're in an overly controlling tryhard guild that won't last more than two tiers.

It needs to be fair for everybody involved. Just because people take advantage of the system isn't a knock on the system itself. It's a knock on playing with assholes.

So, pro tip - don't play the game with assholes.

[Murlocos]

Turalyon has been so consistently portrayed as calm and relatively open-minded that it makes the entire concept of the Light becoming an antagonistic force feel increasingly contrived. Some people really seem to want it to become the Void but yellow.

[Makabreska]

I can concede that as a group people would be considering what item is good for what person. Though, if you have a 'loot council' in your guild, you're either a Mythic Prog guild that has strict requirements in the first place, or you're in an overly controlling tryhard guild that won't last more than two tiers.

It needs to be fair for everybody involved. Just because people take advantage of the system isn't a knock on the system itself. It's a knock on playing with assholes.

So, pro tip - don't play the game with assholes.

Overreaction. Even hc guilds want to optimize gear to help with progress, and "mythic guild" is a broad term. Is a guild that's 4/11 Sepulcher Mythic guild or not? Using Council does not automatically make a guild assholes.

[Varodoc]

Turalyon has been so consistently portrayed as calm and relatively open-minded that it makes the entire concept of the Light becoming an antagonistic force feel increasingly contrived. Some people really seem to want it to become the Void but yellow.

I would say that having a Light faction as the main villainous faction of an expansion would be an interesting breath of fresh air for WoW, where the main antagonistic factions are usually armies of monsters or the Horde (same thing tbh).

The Scarlet Crusade is a villainous faction associated with the Light, but they were never relevant to the main storyline of an expansion.

Having the Lightbound led by Yrel as main antagonistic force of a future expansion makes sense and was established in BfA with the Mag'har scenario. It just makes no sense for Turalyon and the Alliance Lightforged to join them, since they are not zealots. They literally fought alongside Illidari and Ren'dorei, putting aside their differences for the sake of the world.

[Caiphon]

Followed by so desired by some hordies Siege of SW. Like, srsly. How people want to make Turalyon a villain in a DF expansion setting? He shows zero fanaticism/ill will, you gotta need Naaru to make him go bad. And sure, we can have them suddenly descent from the sky in final patch, but that would be a total switch of setting and going back to cosmic themes, something Blizz wants to take a break from.

Yrel was just as benevolent and open minded as Turalyon, if not more. Somehow she's become hell-bent on conquering Draenor and beyond though, Blizzard absolutely loves the corruption theme. Though it's unlikely to happen in DF, if we do get to fight the Light in a future expansion he's certainly on the list of potential villains - he was devoted enough to let X'era imprison his wife after all. Alleria rallying the PCs in a battle against her husband would fit the Blizzard cliche perfectly, ripping off the Arthas-Jaina plot.

And considering we've laid siege to Orgrimmar twice now (though the second didn't get past the gates) it'd be a nice change of scenery to raid Stormwind. Doesn't have to be another faction war expansion as Blizz has clearly shown they can't handle that theme. Have a cosmic expansion focused on the Light, push back their version of the Burning Crusade then in 1x.1 or 1x.2 have the Naaru Prime or whatever pull off something in the lines of 'you resist us yet the Light is at the very heart of your world!', descend upon Stormwind and lightforge Turalyon and the clergy.

If I were to write a Light-themed expansion I'd have us fight off Yrel's invasion in the first raid tier, return her to her senses, fight Turalyon with her in the second tier and finally travel to the realm of Light to battle whatever that's taken hold of the place. It would be like a sequel to Legion, with something like 'believe your own justice' as the central theme.


...But for DF yeah my bet's definitely on Galakrond. We've already taken down Murozond, would be a bit weird to fight him again right away without an extensive amount of buildup showing how he's screwing over the timelines. Maybe have him turn Murozond at the end of the Galakrond raid and fly off like Garrosh did after SoO. Then we can have him shape the world up for a time themed expansion or something.

[Koollan]

Overreaction. Even hc guilds want to optimize gear to help with progress, and "mythic guild" is a broad term. Is a guild that's 4/11 Sepulcher Mythic guild or not? Using Council does not automatically make a guild assholes.

Yet people complain about Loot Council? I personally would be uncomfortable in a world where a group of 2-4 people dictate who in the raid gets what gear. Everybody should have the chance to have a say. If people aren't being reasonable about the importance of their gear, then it's the guild's decision as a group to say 'no'.

[Makabreska]

Turalyon has been so consistently portrayed as calm and relatively open-minded that it makes the entire concept of the Light becoming an antagonistic force feel increasingly contrived. Some people really seem to want it to become the Void but yellow.

Uh, completely false reasoning. Turalyon was freed from Naaru influence in Legion. What Naaru did in Mag'har AR quest alone, how they warped Yrel character, clearly clearly shows they are set up as villains in the future.

[Cosmicpreds]

A pointless distinction to make.

Gul'dan technically wasn't the "final boss" in gameplay sense, but he was still the final villain of the story, replacing Grommash/Iron Horde after 6.1. Archimonde wasn't even a character in WoD, he appeared for 2 minutes, got his hooves stabbed by the players, and died. Gul'dan was pretty much the final villain.



Turalyon is just a meme answer from the vocal minority of Horde players that still hasn't gotten over SoO. Odyn also seems like a meme answer, he was on good terms with the champions in Legion.

That you brought up 11.0 is irrelevant to me as I wasn't talking about it.

- - - Updated - - -



Yeah... it's literally just some Horde diehard fanboys online that are still salty about SoO.

You'd think they would give up after Blizzard repeated SoO with Battle of Dazar'alor, but nope! They do not desist in their wishes to see an Alliance city turned into a raid. It's not happening.

They're not meme answers...

People actually believe that.

[Nymrohd]

Yrel was just as benevolent and open minded as Turalyon, if not more. Somehow she's become hell-bent on conquering Draenor and beyond though, Blizzard absolutely loves the corruption theme. Though it's unlikely to happen in DF, if we do get to fight the Light in a future expansion he's certainly on the list of potential villains - he was devoted enough to let X'era imprison his wife after all. Alleria rallying the PCs in a battle against her husband would fit the Blizzard cliche perfectly, ripping off the Arthas-Jaina plot.

He was devoted enough that he petitioned his God to spare his wife who was missing for aeons and returned infused with the void. Like, keeping her imprisoned at least for a while is the only rational thing to do when you are at war with an army known for shapeshifters and infilitrators (and one of them is you BFF).

- - - Updated - - -

Uh, completely false reasoning. Turalyon was freed from Naaru influence in Legion. What Naaru did in Mag'har AR quest alone, how they warped Yrel character clearly clearly shows they are set up as villains in the future.

I think Naaru should have nuance. There is X'era but there is also A'dal. I think Turalyon is there to be tempted and maybe go villain for a single patch before he turns back to us. Same way they pretty much created Calia to give the Horde a Light-themed hook for such an expansion.

[Jastall]

I'd be quite surprised if the final boss isn't Murozond at this point. I guess Galakrond is also possible but either way he'd be raised or somehow brought back by Murozond anyhow.

Turalyon as the final boss would require a bunch of risible retcons. The guy has been portrayed as nothing but quite sensible since Legion. His goddess was nuked in front of him and he was maybe cross for one scene before getting over it. Making him a Garrosh tier baddy to everyone isn't the direction his story is going towards at all.

[Makabreska]

I think Naaru should have nuance. There is X'era but there is also A'dal.

Sure. They already have it, as you shown. Very possible we will be against Naaru at some point, but not all of them will be these controlling freaks.

[Varodoc]

Yrel was just as benevolent and open minded as Turalyon, if not more. Somehow she's become hell-bent on conquering Draenor and beyond though, Blizzard absolutely loves the corruption theme. Though it's unlikely to happen in DF, if we do get to fight the Light in a future expansion he's certainly on the list of potential villains - he was devoted enough to let X'era imprison his wife after all. Alleria rallying the PCs in a battle against her husband would fit the Blizzard cliche perfectly, ripping off the Arthas-Jaina plot.

And considering we've laid siege to Orgrimmar twice now (though the second didn't get past the gates) it'd be a nice change of scenery to raid Stormwind. Doesn't have to be another faction war expansion as Blizz has clearly shown they can't handle that theme. Have a cosmic expansion focused on the Light, push back their version of the Burning Crusade then in 1x.1 or 1x.2 have the Naaru Prime or whatever pull off something in the lines of 'you resist us yet the Light is at the very heart of your world!', descend upon Stormwind and lightforge Turalyon and the clergy.

If I were to write a Light-themed expansion I'd have us fight off Yrel's invasion in the first raid tier, return her to her senses, fight Turalyon with her in the second tier and finally travel to the realm of Light to battle whatever that's taken hold of the place. It would be like a sequel to Legion, with something like 'believe your own justice' as the central theme.


...But for DF yeah my bet's definitely on Galakrond. We've already taken down Murozond, would be a bit weird to fight him again right away without an extensive amount of buildup showing how he's screwing over the timelines. Maybe have him turn Murozond at the end of the Galakrond raid and fly off like Garrosh did after SoO. Then we can have him shape the world up for a time themed expansion or something.

Yrel was also essentially a teenager (by Draenei standards) who went from a slave, to the de-facto Prophet leader of the Draenei race, all in the span of a few weeks/months. She also experienced great personal trauma when she saw her sister sacrificed to the Void powers and her mentor's sacrifice to save Karabor from destruction. It makes sense that she would be more unstable/naive and easier to manipulate for the Naaru. She is clearly a very young adult who has been messed up by all the traumas and shocking events that happened back to back in short time. Such people tend to be manipulated easily.

Turalyon is not like Yrel. He is wise and experienced enough to understand that cooperation is more important than blind faith, as he proved in Legion, BfA, and continues to prove to the present expansion.

[wowrefugee]

Or they pug into normal
They give you the tools it's up to you to use them

Or they can just remove the time gating on LFR.

[Makabreska]

Or they can just remove the time gating on LFR.

Not gonna happen for now. So the only choice you got is pug, or find a guild. And it's really easy to find a guild.

Kay raid testing starts.

[Caiphon]

I think Naaru should have nuance. There is X'era but there is also A'dal. I think Turalyon is there to be tempted and maybe go villain for a single patch before he turns back to us. Same way they pretty much created Calia to give the Horde a Light-themed hook for such an expansion.

I mean we could totally have a X'era-like Naaru Prime essentialy take Zovaal's position and have A'dal help Azerothians resist it, kinda like the Eternal Ones who are Shadowland's pantheon yet do not wish for Death to conquer all existence.

[Nymrohd]

I mean we could totally have a X'era-like Naaru Prime essentialy take Zovaal's position and have A'dal help Azerothians resist it, kinda like the Eternal Ones who are Shadowland's pantheon yet do not wish for Death to conquer all existence.

The Light has made a deal with the enemy of all or something? I think the Light expansion will introduce us to the seventh force (and I think Calia is the cat's paw for their scheme on Azeroth, not Turalyon).

[Caiphon]

Yrel was also essentially a teenager (by Draenei standards) who went from a slave, to the de-facto Prophet leader of the Draenei race, all in the span of a few weeks/months. She also experienced great personal trauma when she saw her sister sacrificed to the Void powers and her mentor's sacrifice to save Karabor from destruction. It makes sense that she would be more unstable/naive and easier to manipulate for the Naaru. She is clearly a very young adult who has been messed up by all the traumas and shocking events that happened back to back in short time. Such people tend to be manipulated easily.

Turalyon is not like Yrel. He is wise and experienced enough to understand that cooperation is more important than blind faith, as he proved in Legion, BfA, and continues to prove to the present expansion.

That assuems the Naaru actually bother to persuade people through logic. X'era clearly didn't have such intentions when she tried to 'convert' Illidan, and as others have pointed out Turalyon actually loses the glow in his eyes after X'era is destroyed. If this means that he was freed of her sway over him, it wouldn't be unreasonable to have another Naaru Prime (or something even higher up in the Naaru hierarchy) take control again. It's probably easier for light-based beings to control light-wielding individuals rather than fel-wielding ones like Illidan anyway.

The Light has made a deal with the enemy of all or something? I think the Light expansion will introduce us to the seventh force (and I think Calia is the cat's paw for their scheme on Azeroth, not Turalyon).

I don't really see Calia being enough of a threat even if she is controlled by the Light. She's merely a member of the Desolate Council and even if she suceeds in swaying half the Forsaken it's a minority in the Horde (which generally sways towards shamanism and druidism). Turalyon on the other hand is actin in stead of the High King and the Light is also very prevalent with the major Alliance races. Turalyon being controlled by the Naaru along with human/dwarven/draenei priests would be capable of far more damage than the Light having one seat in the Forsaken council.

[Varodoc]

That assuems the Naaru actually bother to persuade people through logic. X'era clearly didn't have such intentions when she tried to 'convert' Illidan, and as others have pointed out Turalyon actually loses the glow in his eyes after X'era is destroyed. If this means that he was freed of her sway over him, it wouldn't be unreasonable to have another Naaru Prime (or something even higher up in the Naaru hierarchy) take control again. It's probably easier for light-based beings to control light-wielding individuals rather than fel-wielding ones like Illidan anyway.

Curious that you are so focused on Turalyon, but pay no attention whatsoever to Lady Liadrin, who is directly paralleled with Turalyon in the Stromgarde Warfront, and does actually have golden eyes.

Maybe we'll have a villain Liadrin and a Siege of Silvermoon. They even have a giant magical source of Light in the middle of their kingdom.