Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[8bithamster]

Unfortunately there is zero Mythic raiding guilds that won't require max level M+ clears for the gear they give.

If you want to raid mythic, you should put in the effort. If you can't be bothered to do a 30-40 minute dungeon run twice or thrice a week, why are you even wanting to raid mythic?
There are 19 people depending on you in there...

[Nymrohd]

thats exactly what like 99% of people are asking
they dont really explain this stuff

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"the dragons have taken our homes so lets bomb our own city and aim for max casualty"

The island was sleeping but the Tuskar and Centaur civilizations kept going just fine given their houses and places are all in good repair. Meanwhile half the dragon structures are in ruins. My assumption is (which is not properly explained) that many draconid/dragonspawn were left behind at the Dragon Isles but most of them pulled back to Thaldraszus (both Valdrakken and the neighbouring outposts) with only a few other structures maintained properly (e.g. the Ruby Life Pools) while minor outposts in other zones were left to ruin.

It would be interesting to see how the different draconian races kept going over the years and what their system of government was. There is no evidence of a regency left by the Aspects after all. But realistically they formed a society that was just waiting for the Aspects to come back for 10k years. It's no wonder there is dissatisfaction with the Aspects.

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It was more of a Morton's Fork situation. Not fighting her wasn't an option, but to fight her we had to do something that was just as bad. So it was a bad outcome no matter what we do, not mind control.
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I don't think the MC comment is about Azshara. We did have to fight Azshara. It's about Xal'atath. We find the dagger, do its bidding and then help deliver it to N'zoth. Like, wtf? Though I still think letting Gul'dan go at the start of WoD is the peak plot-enforced stupidity inflicted on us.

[Caiphon]

I think I've seen somewhere in the patch notes that class glyphs have been added for testing, anyone see any new glyphs going around?

[Lahis]

If you want to raid mythic, you should put in the effort. If you can't be bothered to do a 30-40 minute dungeon run twice or thrice a week, why are you even wanting to raid mythic?
There are 19 people depending on you in there...

Have you tried pugging 22s?

It not even the dungeon that is the horrible part. It is getting a group for them. It is impossible to get invited without 3.5k rio.

[Nymrohd]

Have you tried pugging 22s?

It not even the dungeon that is the horrible part. It is getting a group for them. It is impossible to get invited without 3.5k rio.

I know this is not how it works for most people but imo if a guild wants to require members to run M+, it needs to set a day aside and have M+ guild runs then.

[Lady Atia]

Have you tried pugging 22s?

It not even the dungeon that is the horrible part. It is getting a group for them. It is impossible to get invited without 3.5k rio.

I dunno, that's why you have a guild, right?

[Lahis]

I know this is not how it works for most people but imo if a guild wants to require members to run M+, it needs to set a day aside and have M+ guild runs then.

I dunno, that's why you have a guild, right?

The guild M+ pushers would rather push keys with their alts than run keys with people outside of their buttbuddy group.

[Nymrohd]

The guild M+ pushers would rather push keys with their alts than run keys with people outside of their buttbuddy group.

My experience, that's what kills most guilds. Took me a while to face that truth and since then I've done my best not to fall in that trap. Having the GM and officers create their own circle and just use the rest of the guild members to fill the raid is the worst idea. But what can you do

[Dracullus]

Again we are discussing irrelevant problems. Since AP grind gone game is more than fine for hardcore crowd. Now keeping more casual people after launch (cause obviously you cant keep all) is main issue.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

How many hours long is the main questline?

[Soikona]

I know this is not how it works for most people but imo if a guild wants to require members to run M+, it needs to set a day aside and have M+ guild runs then.

Raiding 3 days is a lot to dedicate, and now a 4th for keys. A lot can’t do that now.

[Gorsameth]

Raiding 3 days is a lot to dedicate, and now a 4th for keys. A lot can’t do that now.

Then don't demand M+ runs?

[CaptainAlk]

I dont see much changing honestly, maybe the first few weeks will be a bit grindier with Mythic Raid releasing instantly and M+ scaling higher but after that you just run your weekly +20 as you ran your weekly +15 before. And if you play a bit more casually, you just still run your +15s or whatever level you can do.

Raiding 3 days is a lot to dedicate, and now a 4th for keys. A lot can’t do that now.

Then you shouldnt be in a 3 day raiding guild but in a 2 day raiding guild? And i dont see how DF changes things from how they were the last two expacs, you always ran your M+ if you wanted to raid somewhat competitively.

[Lahis]

I dont see much changing honestly, maybe the first few weeks will be a bit grindier with Mythic Raid releasing instantly and M+ scaling higher but after that you just run your weekly +20 as you ran your weekly +15 before. And if you play a bit more casually, you just still run your +15s or whatever level you can do.



Then you shouldnt be in a 3 day raiding guild but in a 2 day raiding guild? And i dont see how DF changes things from how they were the last two expacs, you always ran your M+ if you wanted to raid somewhat competitively.

20 is much, much harder to get in than 15. And DF 20 being equal to SL 22 it will be even harder to get in unless you play the meta MDI comp.

[Gorsameth]

I'm not sure you can compare the difficulty of getting into a 20 (or 22) now with how it will be in DF, simply because for the vast majority of people there is no reason to go beyond 15.

[Makorus]

If you want to raid mythic, you should put in the effort. If you can't be bothered to do a 30-40 minute dungeon run twice or thrice a week, why are you even wanting to raid mythic?
There are 19 people depending on you in there...

Because I want to progress through raids, not do M+ and then get nothing from 90% of the raiding content.

I hate doing dungeons. I will do my 8 +20s every week, but I will hate doing it, and I won't enjoy it in the slightest. The fact that M+ gives the best and most consistent gear (especially with the Catalyst existing) is a big, big design flaw. Wiping to a boss for the whole night, just to kill it and then having to DE every item because it's worse than what M+ drops is just crap. Doesn't help that Dungeon trinkets are consistently overtuned.

It was fine when Tier was exclusively from raids, but even since 9.2 it's even worse. Heroic might as well give Cosmetics now considering how bad the rewards are in comparison.

[CaptainAlk]

20 is much, much harder to get in than 15. And DF 20 being equal to SL 22 it will be even harder to get in unless you play the meta MDI comp.

Yeah so the percentage of people getting the max vault might go down a bit but i havent really read a compelling argument why that is a problem yet. And honestly the MDI Meta argument falls a bit flat, people are running "meta" in +10s already (because they are quite stupid) so whatever level the max reward will be on, its just always a problem to play offmeta.

And yeah, if you dont enjoy M+ at all and want to competitively raid, this change sucks a bit but thats also a very tiny subset of the WoW population. For everyone else its a reason to engage in higher keys, maybe find a group or a guild which you didnt need before and feel even more rewarded for doing so. And if you dont enjoy M+ AND dont want to raid competitively, this change doesnt even affect you.

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Because I want to progress through raids, not do M+ and then get nothing from 90% of the raiding content.

I hate doing dungeons. I will do my 8 +20s every week, but I will hate doing it, and I won't enjoy it in the slightest. The fact that M+ gives the best and most consistent gear (especially with the Catalyst existing) is a big, big design flaw. Wiping to a boss for the whole night, just to kill it and then having to DE every item because it's worse than what M+ drops is just crap. Doesn't help that Dungeon trinkets are consistently overtuned.

It was fine when Tier was exclusively from raids, but even since 9.2 it's even worse. Heroic might as well give Cosmetics now considering how bad the rewards are in comparison.

Yeah tbf Heroic will be a bit underwhelming beyond the first few weeks. But the rest is just very exaggerated, you can upgrade M+ gear to early level Mythic bosses (with 2.5k rio which 95% of raiders will not reach in the first few weeks) so its still very worthwhile to raid Mythic for gear and not just the bosskills. Especially with the new "special" high Ilvl Gear. And yeah at the end of the patch Mythic Gear besides the end bosses will be pretty irrelevant due to the months of vault but honestly who cares. At that point you are either in extend-hell if you are a late CE guild and are happy for a few upgrades from M+ or you farm the raid in one evening for mounts or even are on break already.

[Lahis]

And if you dont enjoy M+ AND dont want to raid competitively, this change doesnt even affect you.

I hate M+ and want to raid and I am not alone in this boat.

[CaptainAlk]

I hate M+ and want to raid and I am not alone in this boat.

And as I said, it does suck for those that hate M+ and want to raid competitively. And I also said that those people are a tiny subset of the WoW population and Blizzard probably thinks that the benefits for the other players outweighs the negatives. They will never make everybody happy and yes this hits some raiders but i still think it is overall a good change.

[Kiria]

Life magic has infinitely more lore these days than it was before (titans/elune(?) did it) so they are absolutely doing more these days. This is not about what the old lore was, this is about what the new lore is.

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I was speaking about lore AND game reasons in my original post, we agree on why they did it for the game.

Your "visage forms are a choice" argument is wrong and that is what I addressed. It is not a choice because they are not dragons.

You are wrong my friend, even in game before you get your visage you are told your visage is your choice of appearance to the mortal race, to the point its like its about to let you choose your race appearance.

Neither Wrathion or Ebonhorn appear to make such a distinction.

To Dracthyr : "A visage form is a expression of how you wish to wish to be seen by others. It is a personal choice you alone can make"

Ebonhorn : " I chose my form because I wished to live quietly among the Highmountain Tauren. Your choice will be your own"

This is the exact wording used, Thank you Khaza

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I hate M+ and want to raid and I am not alone in this boat.

I'm with you, I hate M+ aswell and with Raiding being completely shafted I'm debating on whether I will not just quit after reaching max lvl in DF