1. #68621
    Quote Originally Posted by Saracens View Post
    I can't even tell if it's laziness at this point or if they just forgot and were flippant about it not being a real concern.
    If the shoulders/belt buckle was, by design, easily matched with theit barber shop armour I would have accepted it at least, expecting yhe next tier to do it instead. But this one just fails completely soooo...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gloriandus View Post
    Couple of weeks or so left until pre-patch; still hopeful more refinements are made to the revamped UI and that what we currently have is the "ship it" version. One in particular -- minimal option for unitframes and either integrated or detachable class/spec power.

    Just seeing it now but that holy power artwork has a chain that now just.... ends in mid-air. Oouf!

  2. #68622
    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Man View Post
    so mythic players can get gear within 3ilvl of the highest mythic except for certain pieces like the bow in their vault
    they can also upgrade gear within 6ilvls of their vault loot

    the only thing that has changed is that this happens in a +20 instead of a plus 15 but now you'll get more loot from it as well since the extra 5 levels gives 100% chance at an extra piece of loot

    why is this bad?? (it might be but as a raider that just does m+ on off nights idk)
    Well M+ will also be significantly harder from 11 going up. None of this is bad. THey are essentially getting rewards to match effort. It's only bad for people who did one M15 a week because many of them will have no chance to complete one M20. Honestly I cannot see myself ever trying to PuG a M20 either (it will be effectively at the level of a current M22-23 and I can only clear those confidently with the better players of my guild).

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    Btw can I add how bad the changes to rep quests are? Blizzard keeps trying to make the game a chore. They really need to stop making so many activities reset daily. When the guides try and produce a list of activities you'll want to do to keep up with reputation in DF, that list will be far too long. And instead of making more of those weekly or biweekly they are changing more of them to daily instead. Horrible design choice.

  3. #68623
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Well M+ will also be significantly harder from 11 going up. None of this is bad. THey are essentially getting rewards to match effort. It's only bad for people who did one M15 a week because many of them will have no chance to complete one M20. Honestly I cannot see myself ever trying to PuG a M20 either (it will be effectively at the level of a current M22-23 and I can only clear those confidently with the better players of my guild).
    Which makes me dread these changes. Max M+ is required for gearing, but now it will be impossible to pug.

  4. #68624
    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    Which makes me dread these changes. Max M+ is required for gearing, but now it will be impossible to pug.
    Well maybe the paradigm will change. Not early on S1 but soon after. I am a raid leader and guild leader since TBC. I did require people who are in the main raiding team to run at least one M15. Not because I think it is needed but because it was better than letting people choose and possibly having to deal with resentment (plus we set aside an evening for guild M+ runs and both of us tanks will usually run a couple dungeons that evening to help boost people who struggle to get groups).
    We haven't decided yet but we think we will NOT require it this expansion. Honestly because I know the weaker people of a mainly Heroic guild/community that just fools around on Mythic after AotC and the meta achievement would be useless in what is effectively a M+23 run. You simply cannot carry weaker players through that, not unless you are BiS geared veteran players who run 25+ regularly (and we are not). So we will check out the difficulty and then judge. If most PuGs fail to even complete a M20 (forget timing it) and if keys for those runs become fairly scarce, people will give up on trying to gear through that way anyway.
    And imo that is a very positive thing. Most of the problematic community in M+ is at those 15 keys full of people who do not want to be there, just want to get their loot and want to be done with it as fast as possible. If that part of the community is removed, maybe the total keys run per season will decrease but I think groups will be far happier for it.

  5. #68625
    The gear is going to be ilvl 421 for a vault piece for a +20, however doing a +16 will drop ilvl 415 from the vault just 6 levels lower. This isn't bad at all imo and gives people who want to push that high the incentive for doing it.

  6. #68626
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    I'm pretty sure Blizzard by now knows that making something harder doesn't drive engagement. But they felt (imo rightfully) that they needed to balance the difficulty to gear gap between M+ and Raids.

    And that this change will piss off a lot of M+ players who were used to getting near the best gear for to little effort is something they simply accept.
    I don't think we should consider people who PuG'd ONE M15 every week as M+ players tbh.

  7. #68627
    Quote Originally Posted by cantrip View Post
    Exactly that. But i doubt you will believe me. As like you thought the designer change was a joke. You do you.
    "Exactly that" about being saying the spec is fine..

    complains the spec is bad

    One of these things is not like the other

  8. #68628
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Well M+ will also be significantly harder from 11 going up. None of this is bad. THey are essentially getting rewards to match effort. It's only bad for people who did one M15 a week because many of them will have no chance to complete one M20. Honestly I cannot see myself ever trying to PuG a M20 either (it will be effectively at the level of a current M22-23 and I can only clear those confidently with the better players of my guild).

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    Btw can I add how bad the changes to rep quests are? Blizzard keeps trying to make the game a chore. They really need to stop making so many activities reset daily. When the guides try and produce a list of activities you'll want to do to keep up with reputation in DF, that list will be far too long. And instead of making more of those weekly or biweekly they are changing more of them to daily instead. Horrible design choice.
    The biggest complaint I have about the rep changes is how the post is worded to make it sound like they made it better
    "Yeah we doubled your rep quests while more than doubling the required rep...but you can unlock stuff at renown 5 instead of renown 8...even though it requires more rep to get to 5 than it used to require it to get 8 but it's better we promise."
    The change to daily rewards from weekly instead of just increasing the speed is like they saw shadowlands and said "nah those are too easy we need dailies"

    For m+ I'm just gonna end up doing the 20s on Fridays like I do now for 17s

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    Which makes me dread these changes. Max M+ is required for gearing, but now it will be impossible to pug.
    I think we need to keep in mind that m+ won't be tuned around 200 systems on top of the class anymore

    I don't see 20s being too difficult for anyone who is currently timing 15s and those who are doing 20s will likely end up doing 30s

  9. #68629
    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Man View Post
    I think we need to keep in mind that m+ won't be tuned around 200 systems on top of the class anymore

    I don't see 20s being too difficult for anyone who is currently timing 15s and those who are doing 20s will likely end up doing 30s
    That's a weird assumption given we know that M+ will scale harsher from 11+ than it does now. It will be HARDER than now with both higher scaling and less power gained.

  10. #68630
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    That's a weird assumption given we know that M+ will scale harsher from 11+ than it does now. It will be HARDER than now with both higher scaling and less power gained.
    Not to mention M+ is the easiest it has ever been right now. The dungeons are likely to feel exponentially more difficult when they are scaled normally, instead of scaled to teh experimental funsies SL Season 4.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bsirk View Post
    The gear is going to be ilvl 421 for a vault piece for a +20, however doing a +16 will drop ilvl 415 from the vault just 6 levels lower. This isn't bad at all imo and gives people who want to push that high the incentive for doing it.
    I think people just got spoiled with getting a weekly Mythic piece for what is the equivalent effort of a HC raid. Hopefully this should make it so more players start considering their personal ceiling of M+, rather than just going for a +15 because that is the highest level of tangible reward.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  11. #68631
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    I think people just got spoiled with getting a weekly Mythic piece for what is the equivalent effort of a HC raid. Hopefully this should make it so more players start considering their personal ceiling of M+, rather than just going for a +15 because that is the highest level of tangible reward.
    It was a stupid choice that harmed heroic raiding significantly and also harmed the M+ community. I hope both can bounce back. People who'd rather raid than do M+ can get back to raiding for their progression and will stay longer on farm, people who do not like M+ will not feel forced to do it and sour things for everyone else and finally those who are actually great at M+ will be the ones rewarded best.

  12. #68632
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    That's a weird assumption given we know that M+ will scale harsher from 11+ than it does now. It will be HARDER than now with both higher scaling and less power gained.
    It will be 2% harder per level
    The difference between a 15 and a 17 currently (which will be harder than a 15 in DF) is negligible for most

    Also we have to keep in mind that SL was tuned with all the systems in mind while DF won't have that issue along with the broken combos people can make with talents (going OoM on an arcane mage is almost impossible)

    This also ignores players being stronger on average via gear progression that SL didn't have

  13. #68633
    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Man View Post
    It will be 2% harder per level
    The difference between a 15 and a 17 currently (which will be harder than a 15 in DF) is negligible for most

    Also we have to keep in mind that SL was tuned with all the systems in mind while DF won't have that issue along with the broken combos people can make with talents (going OoM on an arcane mage is almost impossible)

    This also ignores players being stronger on average via gear progression that SL didn't have
    You would need to do a 20 to get gear comparable to what you'd get with a 15 now. 2% per level, compounded over 10 levels is not that little.
    What gear progression did SL lack? You had easier access to high ilvl gear from doing your weekly M15, you had great gear from PvP in early SL, gear from just doing the campaign was pretty solid pre-raid gear. DF launches with harder gear from M+ you an possibly get decent gear from crafting but that will take a crazy amount of grinding (and profession knowledge is very much timegated anyhow) so you will not be able to get it early on. Your best bet is to wait for Elemental Invasions but the game will likely NOT launch with those (they are meant to happen later on, not clear when) or to do war mode pvp.

  14. #68634
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    It was a stupid choice that harmed heroic raiding significantly and also harmed the M+ community. I hope both can bounce back. People who'd rather raid than do M+ can get back to raiding for their progression and will stay longer on farm, people who do not like M+ will not feel forced to do it and sour things for everyone else and finally those who are actually great at M+ will be the ones rewarded best.
    Unfortunately there is zero Mythic raiding guilds that won't require max level M+ clears for the gear they give.

  15. #68635
    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Man View Post
    It will be 2% harder per level
    The difference between a 15 and a 17 currently (which will be harder than a 15 in DF) is negligible for most

    Also we have to keep in mind that SL was tuned with all the systems in mind while DF won't have that issue along with the broken combos people can make with talents (going OoM on an arcane mage is almost impossible)

    This also ignores players being stronger on average via gear progression that SL didn't have
    I don't think you fully understand how compounding percentages work. A level 10 key is scaled 4% higher than a +10 now. An 11 is scaled 8% higher. 12 is scaled 13% higher. A +20 in Dragonflight will be scaled higher than a +22 is now.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  16. #68636
    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    Unfortunately there is zero Mythic raiding guilds that won't require max level M+ clears for the gear they give.
    Well yeah. But those are Mythic raiding guilds. Pretty much every Heroic raiding guild that I knew required that you run a 15. Those guilds probably will no longer do, at least not as soon as they realize that even some of their officers cannot manage to clear a 20 every week.

  17. #68637
    I tried to search through this thread - is it confirmed that Primordial Trolls were scrapped? There was no news from what I gathered since April and apparently Alpha testers haven't found any of them during their gameplay.

    My colleagues are speculating that they were replaced with that Dajarin race- or how it was called? (Feels odd, considering that it's really close to Mandalorian's last name).
    I miss Mists of Pandaria

  18. #68638
    Quote Originally Posted by Ramz View Post
    I tried to search through this thread - is it confirmed that Primordial Trolls were scrapped? There was no news from what I gathered since April and apparently Alpha testers haven't found any of them during their gameplay.

    My colleagues are speculating that they were replaced with that Dajarin race- or how it was called? (Feels odd, considering that it's really close to Mandalorian's last name).
    This is first time I have heard of Primodial Trolls.

  19. #68639
    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    This is first time I have heard of Primodial Trolls.
    They were first mentioned in this article but it was 20th April, and since then no mentions

    https://www.gamerbraves.com/world-of...aura-sardinha/
    I miss Mists of Pandaria

  20. #68640
    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    This is first time I have heard of Primodial Trolls.
    They were on the concept art but it's quite frequent for things in the concept art to be scrapped.

    That said, the only actual clue we have from datamining about future content is about an underground zone. Primordial Trolls could live there.

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