Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Sondrelk]

I love getting attacked on the forums for just making an observation. Obviously, we have an "idea" for when the pre-patch will launch based on that "leak". I just found it interesting that a long maintenance would be occurring THIS Tuesday.

We don't have an "idea" for when the Pre-patch hits. We KNOW when the Pre-patch hits. It's the reset after this one. We know since SL Season 4 ends that week.

[Valysar]

LONG maintenance on Tuesday. Hopefully, to prep for Pre-Patch in the next week or so.

Only 2h in Europe

[Civciv]

Yeah, that guy is super sensitive....

[Catastrophy349]

These forums....lord help us. Thank god only .0005% of people visit here.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Attacked? Holy Mother of Hypersensitivity.

It's MMO-Champion. People have a habit of blowing things way out of proportion.

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Suddenly pulling up these post...








This person was leaking information with Scaleface... did they see the new dwarves ahead of time?

If we get Allied Races, that would certainly be quite unexpected.

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People are already tantruming over the First Ones and Zereth Ordus being mentioned but its the only way it makes sense for the Titans to be so powerful.

It's not "tantruming" (not a word)—people are simply upset because it's redundant and cheapens preexisting lore. There's no reason to expand the hierarchy to include the "KEWL NEW BIGGER GODS!!!" other than the introduce an increasingly-powerful sequence of new enemies for our characters to fight. It's a means by which to substitute retroactively-introduced relevance and Power Level-tier nonsense for extensions of the lore which possess depth or substance.

[Revamp Man]

ok so this is how is see DF going
9.0 primalists and incarnates with the other incarnates being released leading to underground patch
9.1 black empire secrets after the revelation of Tyr and the keepers lying is revealed and Xal takes front line
9.2 Hour of twilight stuff and Odyn war with chromatus being revived and Odyn going scorched earth wanting to kill all mortals and reboot the world with followers of the titans
9.3 Moruzond goes back in time to have the aspects lose against galakrond and we follow him ensuring the battles happened and that galakrond is defeated all while creating moruzond and him going off to be defeated by us in Cata and the dragons seeing mortal races thus allowing them to create their visages (this also closes the plot hole of them having visages before mortal races existed)

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Neat.

Blatant retcon, but it does make sense, and is fitting in making the Titans more morally grey.

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I guess because it's straight out admitting that old lore will be treated as Keeper propaganda, which is kinda weak considering it's further undermining the Chronicles books.

"Oh shit, we wrote ourselves into a corner. I guess we may as well just decide to arbitrarily retcon out all contradictory information!!!!!!!!!!!"

I actually do have to say that it's at least a breath of fresh air to return to the initial state of the Titans as more morally-convoluted beings instead of the Super-Good Guizzz we were reintroduced to in Chronicles. Still, it doesn't work as well now that the Titans aren't distant alien beings whose nature and objectives are inscrutable to us, but instead essentially Giant Spehs Robits whose motives boil down to the vague object of "ORDER!!!" which they will presumably fail to substantially define throughout the entirety of the new lore right up until the next retcon which ditches all the previous cosmology and introduces the Initial Integers.

Another thing which could produce some interesting lore is the suggestion that the Black Empire had any more substance to it than a benighted quagmire of dread and barbarity. Aside from the irrevocable consequences of the implicit retroactive hamfisting of the First Ones into old lore, this introduces the potential for a more nuanced approach to conflicts which were previously portrayed as fairly black-and-white.

Yogg remains the MVP. Sad N'zoth can go cry in a corner

I find it amusing how much time and effort Blizzard spent on making N'Zoth look like the Big Bad Evuhl Genius, but this whole time Yogg-Saron has maintained the most consistent track record of actually succeeding at any enterprise he undertook.

[Luck4]

Pre-Patch Event - Primal Storms

The new event is called Primal Storms, where hordes of Primalist mobs invade specific zones. We were able to pinpoint that the invasions seem to be static, with each zone getting a specific invasion:

- Earth Invasions happen in Northern Barrens;
- Fire Invasions happen in Tirisfal Glades;
- Storm Invasions happen in Un'Goro Crater;
- Water Invasions happen in Badlands.

Pre-patch event is gonna show everybody why we desperately need a World Revamp, every time we go back to the core zones of Warcraft, the base of the franchise, it looks uglier than before, it's so bad now that it's starting to break the immersion.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Pre-patch event is gonna show everybody why we desperately need a World Revamp, every time we go back to the core zones of Warcraft, the base of the franchise, it looks uglier than before, it's so bad now that it's starting to break the immersion.

So, in the event for Shadowlands, they explicitly retread the ground of Wrath of the Lich King—now, in the event for Dragonflight, they're explicitly retreading the ground of Cataclysm. Of course.

[Ersula]

ok so this is how is see DF going
9.0 primalists and incarnates with the other incarnates being released leading to underground patch
9.1 black empire secrets after the revelation of Tyr and the keepers lying is revealed and Xal takes front line
9.2 Hour of twilight stuff and Odyn war with chromatus being revived and Odyn going scorched earth wanting to kill all mortals and reboot the world with followers of the titans
9.3 Moruzond goes back in time to have the aspects lose against galakrond and we follow him ensuring the battles happened and that galakrond is defeated all while creating moruzond and him going off to be defeated by us in Cata and the dragons seeing mortal races thus allowing them to create their visages (this also closes the plot hole of them having visages before mortal races existed)

More like
9.3 Nozdormu takes us back in time to Avaloren stop Odyn from initially purging all curse of flesh life on the planet, as we were predestined to do, & Murozond tries to stop us.

[Nymrohd]

Pre-patch event is gonna show everybody why we desperately need a World Revamp, every time we go back to the core zones of Warcraft, the base of the franchise, it looks uglier than before, it's so bad now that it's starting to break the immersion.

Also it's going to remind everyone that a ten year old apparently redesigned Badlands and added a massive dragon dick spanning half the zone.

[Pyrophax]

More like
9.3 Nozdormu takes us back in time to Avaloren stop Odyn from initially purging all curse of flesh life on the planet, as we were predestined to do, & Murozond tries to stop us.

I think that Avaloren -> Avalon and we should expect more Arthurian story. With Knights of Round Table, normal Maiden of the Lake, Camelot and Excalibur. With that new Keeper Innaria being new King Arthur lying on death door and all of that.

[Nymrohd]

I actually do have to say that it's at least a breath of fresh air to return to the initial state of the Titans as more morally-convoluted beings instead of the Super-Good Guizzz we were reintroduced to in Chronicles. Still, it doesn't work as well now that the Titans aren't distant alien beings whose nature and objectives are inscrutable to us, but instead essentially Giant Spehs Robits whose motives boil down to the vague object of "ORDER!!!" which they will presumably fail to substantially define throughout the entirety of the new lore right up until the next retcon which ditches all the previous cosmology and introduces the Initial Integers..

See here is the thing. At no point do the notes state that the Pantheon is actually the Pantheon of Order. They are still creatures of the Physical Realm. It's just that Order WON their attention and alignment early on. The Six Forces are at war. EVERYONE was likely trying to recruit the Titans in their way. The Void Lords very clearly are trying to do this; that's the entire plan with the Old Gods and the glee of Xal to get a foothold in the Seat of the Pantheon. The entire Nathrezim plot in Death lead to that; not just to knock the Arbiter out but then to create a new one powered by a Titan Soul.

My opinion is this. The universe is an experiment by the First Ones and the Titans are the desired end product. They set up six forces and then the physical reality for them to interact in. The APEX result of that interaction is the Pantheon (and above them all, Azeroth). Xal'atath suggests that the war between Void and Light and likely the war between all the forces has lasted far longer than the Pantheon existed.

When the Titans came to be the force that managed to get them on their side was Order. Some element of Order (possibly the Constellar) brought the Titans to Zereth Ordos, taught them the Purpose but through Order's lense and let them go.

[Jaggler]

See here is the thing. At no point do the notes state that the Pantheon is actually the Pantheon of Order. They are still creatures of the Physical Realm. It's just that Order WON their attention and alignment early on. The Six Forces are at war. EVERYONE was likely trying to recruit the Titans in their way. The Void Lords very clearly are trying to do this; that's the entire plan with the Old Gods and the glee of Xal to get a foothold in the Seat of the Pantheon. The entire Nathrezim plot in Death lead to that; not just to knock the Arbiter out but then to create a new one powered by a Titan Soul.

My opinion is this. The universe is an experiment by the First Ones and the Titans are the desired end product. They set up six forces and then the physical reality for them to interact in. The APEX result of that interaction is the Pantheon (and above them all, Azeroth). Xal'atath suggests that the war between Void and Light and likely the war between all the forces has lasted far longer than the Pantheon existed.

When the Titans came to be the force that managed to get them on their side was Order. Some element of Order (possibly the Constellar) brought the Titans to Zereth Ordos, taught them the Purpose but through Order's lense and let them go.

Going with that thery we have Titans influenced by order, one influenced by Chaos and MAYBE one influenced by death? The Void Lords try to corrupt one. That leaves Light and Life as the ones who haven't shown their hands in that regard yet. Though it stands to reason that Eonar could easily be working for Life with nobody noticing it. And that Light isn't a wholly benevolent force isn't anything new.

[Nymrohd]

And that Light isn't a wholly benevolent force isn't anything new.

Light is working with the Seventh Force (made a deal with the enemy of all). As for Life, I guess we'll get some idea of what it might be working on soon. Imo Elune's influence and interest on Azeroth suggests to me that Life's focus is on getting Azeroth on their side.

[Pyrophax]

Going with that thery we have Titans influenced by order, one influenced by Chaos and MAYBE one influenced by death? The Void Lords try to corrupt one. That leaves Light and Life as the ones who haven't shown their hands in that regard yet. Though it stands to reason that Eonar could easily be working for Life with nobody noticing it. And that Light isn't a wholly benevolent force isn't anything new.

With that in mind - Elune as Life deity can try to turn Azeroth via Night Elves.
Light - via paladins and priest orders. But in slow rate.

[Nymrohd]

With that in mind - Elune as Life deity can try to turn Azeroth via Night Elves.
Light - via paladins and priest orders. But in slow rate.

For me Light has a very clear plot going on Azeroth and that's Calia Menethil. Light directly intervened via S'ara (sp?) and raised her into a unique form at about the time when Blizzard was coming up with the new cosmology. She is very likely the catspaw for any Light-based schemes on Azeroth. But given that we know there is an enemy of all, a Seventh Force, it makes sense for one of the Six to betray the others and having that one be Light works just fine.

As for Life I think we will get to that plot more with the Botani who escaped on Azeroth than with Elune and the Night Elves.

[Nyel]

Pre-patch event is gonna show everybody why we desperately need a World Revamp, every time we go back to the core zones of Warcraft, the base of the franchise, it looks uglier than before, it's so bad now that it's starting to break the immersion.

I don't know if I agree with this. I was playing WotLK Classic for the last weeks and logged onto the live servers just yesterday. It was... really weird to see "new" WoW and "old" WoW. While spell effects and animations look better, they are very cartoonish and almost too unreal compared to "back in the days". While retail might look way better from a technical standpoint, it lost a lot of its earlier charme (which only is apparent when you can compare both 1:1). Everything in retail is just too vibrant and flashy and there's waaaaaaaaaaay too much going on all of the time.

[Dracullus]

So, in the event for Shadowlands, they explicitly retread the ground of Wrath of the Lich King—now, in the event for Dragonflight, they're explicitly retreading the ground of Cataclysm. Of course.

Almost every single expansion use nostalgia. Better, source of that nostalgia was also based on nostalgia for something even older.

Warcraft III -> TBC -> Legion
Frozen Throne -> Wotlk -> Shadowlands
Vanilla -> Cataclysm -> Dragonflight

I don't get why are you surprised, it's powerful tool, would be stupid to not use it. Hell, SL story would be perceived better if they would go full in with nostalgia (like Legion) not just bits here and there.

[Jaggler]

For me Light has a very clear plot going on Azeroth and that's Calia Menethil. Light directly intervened via S'ara (sp?) and raised her into a unique form at about the time when Blizzard was coming up with the new cosmology. She is very likely the catspaw for any Light-based schemes on Azeroth. But given that we know there is an enemy of all, a Seventh Force, it makes sense for one of the Six to betray the others and having that one be Light works just fine.

As for Life I think we will get to that plot more with the Botani who escaped on Azeroth than with Elune and the Night Elves.

TBH, i don't think the Light really needs a spy or undercover agent on Azeroth. Half the Alliance is deeply connected with the Light (including their current leader) and if the Light calls to them i am sure you would find wnough fanatics to act on its behalf without Calia.