1. #68801
    Quote Originally Posted by Rageonit View Post
    Like CDPRed did for Cyberpunk 2077? So they could later blame the same QA company for the plethora of bugs?
    There's no need for this argument here. Whether you test something internally or not, it's always beneficial to also release a public beta if there are people willing to test things. After all, additional tests never hurt.
    FFXIV manages just fine without public testing, even with a decade of technical debt and spaghetti code now. I can't even recall when I last actually encountered a bug in live, save the Raubahn Extreme bottleneck back on Stormblood launch.
    The only reason I see WoW benefitting from public testing is tuning and finding bugs in how abilities/talents/trinkets interact, as WoW's design in that regard is extremely chaotic as opposed to a very sanitized, homogenized FFXIV.

    In the end though you're right in it not being about public testing being there or not: you still need to invest resources and time in QA and professional testing, preferably in-house.
    Blaming external QA is always easy even though the problems always start in design and development.

  2. #68802
    The Lightbringer Lady Atia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Very much so. We cannot judge the expac by the release content. By that standard, WoD was an amazing expansion.
    Well, the first part of WoD (aswell as HFC itself) was a good expansion. So was Shadowlands, besides the drought and Korthia. Honestly, Shadowlands after the ripcord (which was at the time the team came together and started to change shortly after people like Afrasiabi got booted btw) already was miles ahead of BfA so I wouldn't worry about Dragonflight. If they can keep the patch speed we had since Sepulcher everything will turn out great.

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  3. #68803
    Quote Originally Posted by Rageonit View Post
    Like CDPRed did for Cyberpunk 2077? So they could later blame the same QA company for the plethora of bugs?
    There's no need for this argument here. Whether you test something internally or not, it's always beneficial to also release a public beta if there are people willing to test things. After all, additional tests never hurt.
    Yes, like this one singular case...
    Not like Monster Hunter, Yakuza, Forza, God of War, FallGuys, Pokemon Unite, any CoD, FIFA, FF14, Guild Wars 2 (iirc) or tons of other games.
    This "let players beta test" is purely marketing and cost cutting. They don't get any more or better feedback by letting random players test their games.
    And before you come with that, yes, games like CoD have "betas", but with them being like a weekend before launch, they're just glorified demos and have 0 impact on anything

  4. #68804
    Quote Originally Posted by Shakzor View Post
    Yes, like this one singular case...
    Not like Monster Hunter, Yakuza, Forza, God of War, FallGuys, Pokemon Unite, any CoD, FIFA, FF14, Guild Wars 2 (iirc) or tons of other games.
    This "let players beta test" is purely marketing and cost cutting. They don't get any more or better feedback by letting random players test their games.
    And before you come with that, yes, games like CoD have "betas", but with them being like a weekend before launch, they're just glorified demos and have 0 impact on anything
    One question that arises in my mind is which of those games has such complex interactions between (as of now) 38 specs - and if their internal teams (or external QA companies) are as experienced with those mechanics as are WoW players with the mentioned specs. Because for me, it feels like testing FIFA or Monster Hunter is rather different to testing WoW. Also, those WoW betas have a long standing tradition, and were (at least in the past, but I think still are) both praised and enjoyed by many players. So yeah, arguing that it's down to cost cutting is a bit mean spirited. If Blizzard suddenly decided NOT to do a public beta, we'd have a huge outcry.

  5. #68805
    Quote Originally Posted by Rageonit View Post
    One question that arises in my mind is which of those games has such complex interactions between (as of now) 38 specs - and if their internal teams (or external QA companies) are as experienced with those mechanics as are WoW players with the mentioned specs. Because for me, it feels like testing FIFA or Monster Hunter is rather different to testing WoW. Also, those WoW betas have a long standing tradition, and were (at least in the past, but I think still are) both praised and enjoyed by many players. So yeah, arguing that it's down to cost cutting is a bit mean spirited. If Blizzard suddenly decided NOT to do a public beta, we'd have a huge outcry.
    Monster Hunter has... i think 18 weapon types, which all also need extensive testing against all sorts of monsters in different terrains. Meaning you can get into a LOT of different scenarios, to make sure none of them feel useless.
    Other games i mentioned are fricking long in playlength, meaning you need to test like 100+ hours for a casual playthrough, which people can play differently in approach.
    And what about Guild Wars or FF14? Yes, WoW has a lot more specs, but they rarely do HUGE shifts like with Survival going melee or demonology becoming all about summong minor pets and just iterate more on themselves. Most talents are existing spells, passives and abilities or returning ones, which barely need any testing.

    Yes, a game like Red Dead Redemption needs different kinds of testing, but a lot of what you mention is just number tweaking and making sure stuff doesn't go into infinite loops or things like that. But there are plenty of games with FUCKTONS of content that needs to be tested, that make due without player betas. And just because it's "WoW tradition", doesn't mean it's a good tradition. At this point, the game always gets "solved" before it even launches, be it patches or expansions and you get insulted when you set foot in a raid the day it opens and don't already know all bosses in and out (although a lot of that is a playerbase issue)

  6. #68806
    Quote Originally Posted by Shakzor View Post
    And what about Guild Wars or FF14? Yes, WoW has a lot more specs, but they rarely do HUGE shifts like with Survival going melee or demonology becoming all about summong minor pets and just iterate more on themselves. Most talents are existing spells, passives and abilities or returning ones, which barely need any testing.
    Are you serious? WoW has so many interactions between specs that adding a single ability for all of them (remember the Covenant debacle...?) can shift the scales completely, making useless specs OP just like that. Not to mention WoW is A LOT more competitive game than FF14 and people expect perfect balance in all types of content: m+, raids and PvP. No, FF14 or GW2 can't even compare.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shakzor View Post
    At this point, the game always gets "solved" before it even launches, be it patches or expansions and you get insulted when you set foot in a raid the day it opens and don't already know all bosses in and out (although a lot of that is a playerbase issue)
    Yeah, but no. Reading forums these days makes you think if you make a single mistake in the game, you will be eaten alive. Get a grip. How many people do you think even play beta...? But suddenly all the groups you land in expect you to know every single encounter on release day. Yeah, but no.

  7. #68807
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    I'd rather have a PTR then no testing realm at all.
    #TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance #TeamNoBlueHorde

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  8. #68808
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    I'd rather have a PTR then no testing realm at all.
    Honestly, I'm not so sure I would. If the trade off for not having a PTR is the content stays fresher longer & we get to find out the spoilers with the story rather than because of someone in trade chat, I'd be all for it. Some feedback is responded to well enough in PTR, but I have to wonder how much worse it makes things for Blizz when someone's (particularly streamers) specific pet issue they found in PTR isn't fixed by the time the game goes live.

    I have to wonder if they couldn't offset the gain on some features like talent trees or new classes by simply giving us a long pre-patch to report findings (like 2 months or so).

  9. #68809
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngerFork View Post
    Honestly, I'm not so sure I would. If the trade off for not having a PTR is the content stays fresher longer & we get to find out the spoilers with the story rather than because of someone in trade chat, I'd be all for it. Some feedback is responded to well enough in PTR, but I have to wonder how much worse it makes things for Blizz when someone's (particularly streamers) specific pet issue they found in PTR isn't fixed by the time the game goes live.

    I have to wonder if they couldn't offset the gain on some features like talent trees or new classes by simply giving us a long pre-patch to report findings (like 2 months or so).
    You always risk that, unless you are one of the first who complete the story. You can simply avoid any PTR news, most of them post spoilers warning anyway.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  10. #68810
    Has anyone managed to spec a Dracthyr Dev spec decently that its damage is not complete ass?

  11. #68811
    Quote Originally Posted by Highlord Hanibuhl View Post
    I'm not lying; a lot of music seems to be in, if you listen to streamers/testers... I'm sure it's not all final, but I'm hearing a lot new music/sounds!
    There has not been any new music added to Dragonflight yet, not sure what you are talking about. The only MP3 file we have gotten from Dragonflight beta builds is the Cinematic trailer.
    Last edited by Stabhar; 2022-10-05 at 06:27 PM.

  12. #68812
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiriastrasza View Post
    Has anyone managed to spec a Dracthyr Dev spec decently that its damage is not complete ass?
    The damage isn't even bad lol

  13. #68813
    Quote Originally Posted by Stabhar View Post
    There has not been any new music added to Dragonflight yet, not sure what you are talking about. The only MP3 file we have gotten from Dragonflight beta builds is the Cinematic trailer.
    Hoping to get Music either this build or next...

    Hopefully just the Login Music at least...

    We're like 2-3 weeks from a release candidate/potential Pre Patch release.

  14. #68814
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiriastrasza View Post
    Has anyone managed to spec a Dracthyr Dev spec decently that its damage is not complete ass?
    My brief experience with the Dracthyr had DPS output not so dissimilar from my similarly-geared Fire Mage, which wasn't too bad all in all. I was comparing both classes at level 60 at the time, so I can't really speak to the endgame experience for the Evoker in Dragonflight.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  15. #68815
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiriastrasza View Post
    Has anyone managed to spec a Dracthyr Dev spec decently that its damage is not complete ass?
    Is it that bad? I mean I've played Preserver with my Dracthyr but my main issue with Dracthyr was that it sucked in the world as solo, not that it was bad. Also, that it's a bit boring.

  16. #68816
    Why do people even care that much about DPS at this stage? Just focus on whether the abilities flow well, tuning can come literally any time before the first raid opens.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  17. #68817
    Pandaren Monk AngerFork's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    You always risk that, unless you are one of the first who complete the story. You can simply avoid any PTR news, most of them post spoilers warning anyway.
    You do, but it's over a much shorter period of time. If the story comes out all at once, I can simply ignore Reddit/MMO-Champ/Trade Chat/etc for a couple days & be pretty safe. When they come out months in advance, it's much harder to ignore that many voices for that long...hard enough that I almost prefer to read the spoilers ahead of time instead so I can at least see for myself rather than having some rando spoil it for me.

  18. #68818
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Why do people even care that much about DPS at this stage? Just focus on whether the abilities flow well, tuning can come literally any time before the first raid opens.
    I mean, to be honest, they don't for Devastation.

    The only thing they have going for them is raw damage.

  19. #68819
    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    I mean, to be honest, they don't for Devastation.

    The only thing they have going for them is raw damage.
    It's a shame they had the idea for the hold down button attack at the same time as Evoker, because they really don't fit together all that well.

    Like that type of button would just gel perfectly with Aimed Shot for MM, but now we likely won't get it because it supposedly integral to the Evoker identity.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  20. #68820
    Is beta realms up still? Hoping for a build today!

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