Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Revamp Man]

And we're supposed to take your word for it?

nah just take their screenname at face value

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An'she is the sun. Mu'sha would be Elune/the moon

well keep in mind there are two moons in azeroth

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You confuse what DF is; it's shadowlands with most of the borrowed-power baked in. The rest? Same systems, same design philosophy, same everything. I have been following beta closely this time, if you haven't, let me enlighten you; they ignored pretty much all the feedback. In SL, the ignored the problems with covenants. In DF, they are ignoring problems with talents. Retri is a fucking joke. DH is ok number wise, but the design philosophy there is a fucking joke. Evoker is not ready to ship. And from what I read, Shadow Priests, Guardian Druids are fucked too. They are now preparing the addict masses to the new idea that each expansion is going to have 8 and only 8 new dungeons. Half of it at the start and other half after months, and the rest is rehashed shit. That's effectively 4 new dungeons. It is beyond me why there is not a community outrage about the amount of content we are getting...Dragonflight will go live with broken classes and extremely poor content to bump 4th quarterly results.

This expansion is bound to fail.

"from what i read"
you mean you saw a tier list and figured bottom specs are garbage

shadow priest is the worst spec but guardian is more than fine
ret troubles have been fixed for the most part in terms of design and DH not being forced into momentum is a welcome change unless you are talking tank spec in which case its aces and doesnt need changed.

The dungeons dont really matter because a very very small % of players ran CMs and as we can see the legion dungeons are already being changed.

just dont play the game
tell your brother you arent going to play and he can find a new dps

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"by any chance"

Shadowlands, Ardenweald and the Winter Queen have confirmed that Elune is being from the plane of Life.

i mean kinda

shes the winter queens sister that left and joined the pantheon of life
we dont know where she originated from

[Dracullus]

You confuse what DF is; it's shadowlands with most of the borrowed-power baked in. The rest? Same systems, same design philosophy, same everything. I have been following beta closely this time, if you haven't, let me enlighten you; they ignored pretty much all the feedback. In SL, the ignored the problems with covenants. In DF, they are ignoring problems with talents. Retri is a fucking joke. DH is ok number wise, but the design philosophy there is a fucking joke. Evoker is not ready to ship. And from what I read, Shadow Priests, Guardian Druids are fucked too. They are now preparing the addict masses to the new idea that each expansion is going to have 8 and only 8 new dungeons. Half of it at the start and other half after months, and the rest is rehashed shit. That's effectively 4 new dungeons. It is beyond me why there is not a community outrage about the amount of content we are getting...Dragonflight will go live with broken classes and extremely poor content to bump 4th quarterly results.

This expansion is bound to fail.

Oh snap it's my favourite time in the cycle.

[Xilurm]

An'she is the sun. Mu'sha would be Elune/the moon

Ye but that's metaphorical.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Hopefully, Dragonflight will be a huge success and Blizzard will shift their focus from cosmic plane exploration.

Hopefully! Then again, Blizzard has a habit of looking at confirmation of something, hearing it repeated ad nauseum, and deciding that they actually know better about what people want than the people who want what they do. They may think that we're just not ready for their super-kewl story in which Danuser's ohsees totally overpower all the dumb old lore by the last guys who totally aren't as kewl as he is.

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Oh snap it's my favourite time in the cycle.

I would be reluctant to dismiss these predictions as doomsaying—I'm decently optimistic regarding Dragonflight's prospects, but the last few times these sorts of claims were dismissed as doomsaying they were effectively entirely validated.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I feel like there's only a few people that are upset about cosmic stuff and its overstated. This goes for the doom and gloom but its MMO-champion so..it comes with the territory. >.>

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Denathrius and Azshara join forces and we have an entire expansion listening to voice lines were they are trying to out-camp each other.

Having it happen all the time would wear out the charm quickly enough, but at least a pair of snarky (or faux-snarky, depending on the quality of the dialogue) fucks would be far more entertaining than the Bald Man's complete absence of personality.

[huth]

I guess I forgot about that.

That makes me wonder though, did she originate there? How are the priestesses of Elune and the Sunwalkers, (assuming An'she and Elune are from the same plane or even the same person) using holy abilities? Why would Elune give them powers from another plane? Unless of course she is more like the Titans, and can use abilities from all the planes at will.

They aren't. That's just for game mechanics. Same way you have Void Elf Holy Priests or Lightforged Shadow Priests.

[Dracullus]

I would be reluctant to dismiss these predictions as doomsaying—I'm decently optimistic regarding Dragonflight's prospects, but the last few times these sorts of claims were dismissed as doomsaying they were effectively entirely validated.

Sure, when doomsayers shits on literally everything, they are 'correct' about some stuff, because game always have some problems. But BfA and SL are total failures only in reddit world, in reality shit ton of people enjoy game and more or less same crowd returns every expac. If whole BfA + SL beta were as bad as on forums, how they hell SL launch would be so popular?

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Sure, when doomsayers shits on literally everything, they are 'correct' about some stuff, because game always have some problems. But BfA and SL are total failures only in reddit world, in reality shit ton of people enjoy game and more or less same crowd returns every expac. If whole BfA + SL beta were as bad as on forums, how they hell SL launch would be so popular?

The launch was popular because it was an expansion launch and there were things to actually do. When the expansion actually reached its apex, subs dropped substantially and people generally dismissed it as subpar. During Shadowlands, numbers dropped to their lowest point since the launch of the game at a rate which clearly suggested this was beyond expected wear and tear to subscription numbers.

[huth]

The launch was popular because it was an expansion launch and there were things to actually do. When the expansion actually reached its apex, subs dropped substantially and people generally dismissed it as subpar. During Shadowlands, numbers dropped to their lowest point since the launch of the game at a rate which clearly suggested this was beyond expected wear and tear to subscription numbers.

And you know this how?

Besides, that's the normal and expected behaviour. We've seen that for over a decade. That doesn't show that BfA or SL were any better or worse than previous expansions, just that they were expansions that were released.

[Dracullus]

The launch was popular because it was an expansion launch and there were things to actually do. When the expansion actually reached its apex, subs dropped substantially and people generally dismissed it as subpar. During Shadowlands, numbers dropped to their lowest point since the launch of the game at a rate which clearly suggested this was beyond expected wear and tear to subscription numbers.

Well, people quit when there is no content. Or rather more quit, since many people are only for launch no matter what. It's not just WoW, whole industry had massive problems with regular releases during 2021.

What is had to do with doomsayers being 'right' about anything again?

[AOL Instant Messenger]

And you know this how?

Besides, that's the normal and expected behaviour. We've seen that for over a decade. That doesn't show that BfA or SL were any better or worse than previous expansions, just that they were expansions that were released.

The extent to which subscription numbers dropped seems to have been more significant than usual. Yes, it is true that subscription numbers are most inclined to drop around the middle of the expansion, but Shadowlands saw a more substantial reduction than is usually seen. It's not a good sign if an expansion abruptly ends at a .2 patch.

Admittedly, it is difficult to produce a consolidated population metric due to Blizzard no longer revealing subscription numbers (not a bad sign at all they're doing great guys), as well as the general shift from a purely subscription-based model to one which is split between in-game currency and a real-money subscription. What I am chiefly using as a metric is a generalized trend of engagement in- and out-of-game, so I will admit that I cannot draw much in the way of precise numbers. One of the points that inspired my concern is a drip in the Google Trends page, which does show that out-of-game engagement with World of Warcraft dropped substantially shortly after Shadowlands' release to a degree which was generally greater than the drops in engagement following previous expansion releases and only recently began to recover with the imminent release of Dragonflight. This does provide at least marginal quantitative support for the claim that there is some proportionality between general disinterest in the game and Shadowlands as an expansion.

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What is had to do with doomsayers being 'right' about anything again?

What I'm saying is that it's dangerous to presume that all predictions of failure are just hollow doomsaying. There does exist a precedent of expansions failing after detractors were disregarded as "doomsayers".

[Dracullus]

What I'm saying is that it's dangerous to presume that all predictions of failure are just hollow doomsaying. There does exist a precedent of expansions failing after detractors were disregarded as "doomsayers".

Dangerous? It's other way around, more doomsaying and shitting on everything = less room for constructive criticism. Not to mention Blizzard can go away with more things if community is in constant hysteria instead of being loud only when actually some really bad change or cash grab is going on.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Dangerous? It's other way around, more doomsaying and shitting on everything = less room for constructive criticism. Not to mention Blizzard can go away with more things if community is in constant hysteria instead of being loud only when actually some really bad change or cash grab is going on.

Who is to determine what constitutes constant hysteria, or at that what constitutes a "really bad chance" or "cash grab"? Are we expected to all form some kind of senatus behind the scenes and determine when the time has come to complain?

[huth]

Admittedly, it is difficult to produce a consolidated population metric due to Blizzard no longer revealing subscription numbers (not a bad sign at all they're doing great guys), as well as the general shift from a purely subscription-based model to one which is split between in-game currency and a real-money subscription. What I am chiefly using as a metric is a generalized trend of engagement in- and out-of-game, so I will admit that I cannot draw much in the way of precise numbers. One of the points that inspired my concern is a drip in the Google Trends page, which does show that out-of-game engagement with World of Warcraft dropped substantially shortly after Shadowlands' release to a degree which was generally greater than the drops in engagement following previous expansion releases and only recently began to recover with the imminent release of Dragonflight.

I'd say this mostly shows that outside of expansion announcements and releases, it doesn't get talked about much anymore outside of specialised sources - which matches what we see in gaming news and which isn't really unexpected given that we're talking about a nearly 20 year old MMORPG in a time when MMORPGs are not a big topic anymore. That doesn't really say much about the game itself, though, more about how the rest of the world has changed.

Where's your evidence for exceptional sub drops? And what do you mean "abruptly ends"? It's not like they just dropped the story halfway through.

[Revamp Man]

Who is to determine what constitutes constant hysteria, or at that what constitutes a "really bad chance" or "cash grab"? Are we expected to all form some kind of senatus behind the scenes and determine when the time has come to complain?

i think its more of
when the guy has a history of just screeching "garbage design" its bad to take them seriously

[huth]

Who is to determine what constitutes constant hysteria, or at that what constitutes a "really bad chance" or "cash grab"? Are we expected to all form some kind of senatus behind the scenes and determine when the time has come to complain?

At the very least that would force people to actually think about it. Just yelling every time you don't like something doesn't help.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

So the Nathrezim are interesting to me because we have one that died a demon and got resurrected on Argus then killed again which for demons would mean permanent death but we see again in Shadowlands

Which one is this? I don't quite recall who you're talking about.

[Dracullus]

Who is to determine what constitutes constant hysteria, or at that what constitutes a "really bad chance" or "cash grab"? Are we expected to all form some kind of senatus behind the scenes and determine when the time has come to complain?

You. Are you telling me you can't difference shitpost from actual critique?

Same with every drama, all you need is to do is basic research if complain is valid before you shout with everybody else.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

At the very least that would force people to actually think about it. Just yelling every time you don't like something doesn't help.

What would force people to "actually think about it"? You're talking about a sentiment, not an object that can prompt a substantial change in behavior.

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You. Are you telling me you can't difference shitpost from actual critique?

Same with every drama, all you need is to do is basic research if complain is valid before you shout with everybody else.

Define what constitutes "basic research" according to your standards.

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I'd say this mostly shows that outside of expansion announcements and releases, it doesn't get talked about much anymore outside of specialised sources - which matches what we see in gaming news and which isn't really unexpected given that we're talking about a nearly 20 year old MMORPG in a time when MMORPGs are not a big topic anymore. That doesn't really say much about the game itself, though, more about how the rest of the world has changed.

Where's your evidence for exceptional sub drops? And what do you mean "abruptly ends"? It's not like they just dropped the story halfway through.

The wrap-up was quite awkward, I'd say. It seems like it was certainly shoved in there to get everything over with as soon as possible, much like seemed to be the case with WoD where the Legion suddenly popped in to give us a segue into the subsequent expansion and drop the Iron Horde plot as quickly as humanly possible. It seems difficult to imagine that Blizzard planned all along for the expansion to end at the .2 patch, and it certainly is difficult to interpret that as a good sign for that expansion. At the very least, it seems plausible that a raid tier was cut.

Your other argument is mostly fair. However, it still strike me as odd that there occurred a substantial drop in searches specifically simultaneous with the apex of Shadowlands. There was previously a very consistent rate at which the search rate was decreasingly steadily. The drop-off which occurred after Shadowlands was far more severe.