Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Nymrohd]

Honestly though does balance matter all that much unless you're interested in PVP?

Yes? Specs that are considered awful in the meta will struggle to find groups for anything.

[Xilurm]

Yes? Specs that are considered awful in the meta will struggle to find groups for anything.

But isn't that more of a community issue? Surely there's groups that just allow for anything unless they are racing or something.

[Makabreska]

But isn't that more of a community issue? Surely there's groups that just allow for anything unless they are racing or something.

Pretty much. So many M+/raid leaders who just glance over weekly DPS ranking and form their judgement based on that.

[Nymrohd]

But isn't that more of a community issue? Surely there's groups that just allow for anything unless they are racing or something.

Does it matter? Are we really challenging the idea that there should be at least a reasonable level of balance among classes? While the meta will give an advantage and a disadvantage to people trying to find a group, the community is not insane, it's just very sensitive to differences. You are not going to be outright denied unless the balance is very bad. Which it usually isn't because effort is made to keep it within reasonable bounds. Are you really advocating it shouldn't matter?

[Makabreska]

Does it matter? Are we really challenging the idea that there should be at least a reasonable level of balance among classes? While the meta will give an advantage and a disadvantage to people trying to find a group, the community is not insane, it's just very sensitive to differences. You are not going to be outright denied unless the balance is very bad. Which it usually isn't because effort is made to keep it within reasonable bounds. Are you really advocating it shouldn't matter?

Seems like you never played Feral. Or Survival pre-9.2.

[Xilurm]

Does it matter? Are we really challenging the idea that there should be at least a reasonable level of balance among classes? While the meta will give an advantage and a disadvantage to people trying to find a group, the community is not insane, it's just very sensitive to differences. You are not going to be outright denied unless the balance is very bad. Which it usually isn't because effort is made to keep it within reasonable bounds. Are you really advocating it shouldn't matter?

I'm just saying it's probably a minority that actually takes that stuff into account and rest play whatever they want. Besides, complain about it to Blizz for a while and they will change it up.

[Nymrohd]

Seems like you never played Feral. Or Survival pre-9.2.

I guess for Survival. I did play Feral. You had to have a lot more rating than needed but you could find groups. And again, it is because the spec sucked. So yeah, balance is pretty important.

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I'm just saying it's probably a minority that actually takes that stuff into account and rest play whatever they want. Besides, complain about it to Blizz for a while and they will change it up.

I mean sure it is a minority. It is a minority that raids and does M+ too.

[Lady Atia]

Yeah I noticed this aswell, reported it as soon as it started as it can get annoying very quickly.

Now that you say the stuff about the sounds, I'm also not a fan of that weird "glossy" filter the dragonriding mounts have sometimes. It's ok if they would get them during the flight but imo it looks ugly when they are on the earth.

[Nymrohd]

Btw I keep reporting these because they are all over the place, they go live as they are far too often and they ruin any sense of immersion while questing.
The majority of voiced discussions I've seen so far have fucked up timing with the NPCs constantly talking over each other. If you encounter them, please report them as well. Seriously I'd rather have slightly akward pauses than whatever this is and I don't even get how they can be that poorly hooked in the first place. Like, basic addition?

[Xilurm]

Btw I keep reporting these because they are all over the place, they go live as they are far too often and they ruin any sense of immersion while questing.
The majority of voiced discussions I've seen so far have fucked up timing with the NPCs constantly talking over each other. If you encounter them, please report them as well. Seriously I'd rather have slightly akward pauses than whatever this is and I don't even get how they can be that poorly hooked in the first place. Like, basic addition?

I always found that a problem with the NPC dialogues in WoW. Especially when coming from other games where that kind stuff is polished and is pretty smooth.

[micwini]

While it sucks it is harder to get good gear from M+ now, I feel like it is a bit more fair now between M+ and raiding. A 15 is by far easier than killing a mythic raid boss and I think timing 20's is a bit more on par.
It sucks, but it's fair.

[Nymrohd]

I always found that a problem with the NPC dialogues in WoW. Especially when coming from other games where that kind stuff is polished and is pretty smooth.

Honestly for me this ruins the immersion so much. I tend to take time off when expacs launch yet I never rush. I'll walk if the NPCs walk, read everything, check every interactible and ofc I want to listen to dialogue. And it just messes up immersion so much.

[Worldshaper]

Do we know if the 28 Nov release date is Sunday -> Monday at midnight, or Monday -> Tuesday?

Also do we know if it's a global launch? Trying to plan things out.

Nvm found an article. It's midnight between Monday and Tuesday if you're in Sweden like me.

[Zebir95]

Assuming the leak is real and that the pre patch arrives on October 25th, we're probably going to get an announcement on Mon/Tues to give players the usual 2 weeks notice.

[Niwes]

While it sucks it is harder to get good gear from M+ now, I feel like it is a bit more fair now between M+ and raiding. A 15 is by far easier than killing a mythic raid boss and I think timing 20's is a bit more on par.
It sucks, but it's fair.

generally, i have the exact same opinion as you.

but in reality, it drives me away from the game. here is why:

i am a pug player since years. my weekly shedule is difficult and there is low chance i will ever again return to organized raiding or guild. so, let’s take this as a given fact. when i play wow, i play pugs.

and there is where the problem shows up. the SOLE reason i played second half BfA and all of SL only M+ (and nearly no raiding at all) is the fact: i can do something, without wasting my time. when you join heroic pug raids, for every wipe oy boss, you have to wait 20mins to fill up grp with ppls again (cause every try 1-5 ppls leave). at some times you need 3 days, just to clear 1 HC raid. you wait 80% of the time and play 20% of the time. pug raiding, designed as it is, is such a giant waste of time. additionally i can not even do quests, while grp is formed. because of that idiotic you-are-in-a-raid 2005 rule.

in m+, in contrast, i can do quests while grp is formed. i am not standing in Oribos and waiting. and even if the grp sucks, or you have a leaver, you at least played the game until that point. i was not just standing around in the dungeon, for 20 mins, again and again. also, when the grp breaks or the dungeon is over, i can find another grp and be ready to play the game in a dungeon again, in like 5 minutes. not another 20 mins, like when waiting for the next raid.

in short: playing pug raids, in contrast to m+, is soooo much more of wasting time without actually playing the game. that’s the reason why i prefer m+, (as long as there is no desserteur debuff in pug raids, or something else that counters raid hopping). its just way more „playing the game“ and way less „wasting your time and standing around“.

and here i see the problem with the upcoming changes: it directs m+ more into some „get grp, try, declare it as not good enough at 10% of dungeon, leave, repeat“ direction. it is still way better than pug raiding, but it will move it more into a „quickshot try and repeat“ direction imo.

summary: the changes counters directly, what made pug m+ attractive (or way more attractive than pug raiding) to me and others. and therefore i don’t like it. even when i have in general the same opinion as quoted poster.

[Catastrophy349]

Can we get back to lore? Please? Yo. Every action has its equal, opposite reaction. The expansion before shat the bed, I loved Sylvanas, but she’s in traction. Poor Anduin Wrynn, he is missing in action. So now we’re left with, Tyrande Whisperwind, with her own faction.

[Niwes]

Yes? Specs that are considered awful in the meta will struggle to find groups for anything.

this is the simple truth.

and while there will be always a spec on top (even doing 0.005% more dps) and a spec on the bottom (even when doing 0.005% les dps), balance is important, when it comes down to a specific overall picture.

an example: i play on 2,5-2,8k rating in m+ pugs at the moment. survival hunters and outlaw rogues do around 5% more dps in m+ these days than everyone else. coincidentally (for completely different reasons, BfA style stuff) i play hunter and rogue this xpac. and i had zero problems getting into every m+ dungeon as BM hunter (the worst hunter spec at the moment). also i have zero problems to get into every dungeon as Sub Rogue at the moment.

in contrast, when you played a non-meta spec in the past, that had 10% less dps, no one takes you into account. ferals, shadow priests, rets. all of them have/had fukin hard times in pug m+ playing.

why i showed that 2 examples: i wanna show that the amount of (missing) balance matters. wow ppls are not that stupid that they are going „you are not meta, we dont want you“, when meta does 2-3% more dps. but they are also realizing, when a spec does 10% less than average, is not designed for some specific game niche, or not brings anything to the table, they take the other specs.

summary: balance don’t matter to a 1-2% degree. and balance don’t matter for „everyone is just playing meta cause of 1-2% and all other specs suck“. but balance DOES matter, when specs falling 10% behind, are not designed for a specific game niche at all, or bring nothing to the table. so yes, balance matters (to a specific degree)!

[Nymrohd]

summary: the changes counters directly, what made pug m+ attractive (or way more attractive than pug raiding) to me and others. and therefore i don’t like it. even when i have in general the same opinion as quoted poster.

I think there are solutions to this, they just require a lot more effort from Blizzard.


First, OpenRaid should have been part of the game UI. PuGing a raid is not in any way elegant and while someone can on the fly spend 30-40 minutes in an activity, many people need to schedule for 3-4 hours. Wasting far more than that to build the raid is horrible. Having a tool to schedule a raid ahead of time to a time that suits you so that when the time comes you can have the group ready within 10-15 minutes would get so many more people involved.

Second, raid design should help make raids easier to experience in smaller and distinct chunks. LFR does this already for the raids; you can pick a specific part with specific bosses, there is usually a capstone in rewards at the end (LFR wing endbosses corresponding to tier bosses). This should be something easier to schedule and communicate for PuG leaders and it seems the reward system in DF is built for that; e.g. less running Castle Nathria, more running Leeching Vaults.

Third and alternatively, design more and smaller raids. Instead of one raid with 10-12 bosses, two raids with 4-6 bosses (and a third with 1-2). Give us similar number of encounters but more environments. Less bosses who are filler in the story. Yes, probably would mean more art reuse but as long as each tier has some new art, the World art already is strong enough to carry themes and raids.

[huth]

i have learned they are simply here to stir the pot
you could prove 1+1=2 and they would still argue for it being 35

More like 1+1=Blizzard bad, no matter how nonsensical that is.

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

Do we know if the 28 Nov release date is Sunday -> Monday at midnight, or Monday -> Tuesday?

Also do we know if it's a global launch? Trying to plan things out.

Nvm found an article. It's midnight between Monday and Tuesday if you're in Sweden like me.

2/3pm PDT and 5/6pm EST iirc.