Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Jastall]

Odyn as the final boss of SL is silly. Now that they are revisiting the concept that he is a big asshole, a little more publicly than his backstory with Helya, I think its possible that he will be A boss sometime down the road. There isn't an Order/Titan character more suited to be a villain other than the constellars, who are just doing their jobs, and Sargeras who doesn't count.

The recent lore book doubles down on his arrogance and I kind of think its building up to some kind of reveal that he wants the Titan's glory all for himself.

We already fought him twice. I'm not sure what a third fight would bring to the table, aside from having to massively villain bat one of the few remaining characters that is neither a paragon of virtue (much as he thinks otherwise I'm sure) nor a mustache twirling baby eater.

If anything he's kinda like Bwonsamdi; an asshole, but our asshole. Except not as likeable.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

that is neither a paragon of virtue (much as he thinks otherwise I'm sure) nor a mustache twirling baby eater.

Honestly, I do get that sentiment. It is true that he is one of the more nuanced villains—as cathartic as it would be to put my whole fist in his skull (or, rather, break my hand on the thick metallic alloy that constitutes his head), he is one of the few villains left who actually has a sensible, simple motive. He wants to preserve the order of the Titans, and in this otherwise-benevolent interest he is willing to do terrible things. It makes him more compelling than the Jailer who is achktually playing 7d chess and is simultaneously secretly a super-nuanced character For Sure Guys and a one-dimensional bastard whose surface interest is effectively "lol make death happen" (which could even make for an interesting Satan allegory if the banality of evil were actually at play here). It's nice to have villains with actual motives again, a la Daelin Proudmoore.

[Makabreska]

Honestly, I do get that sentiment. It is true that he is one of the more nuanced villains—as cathartic as it would be to put my whole fist in his skull (or, rather, break my hand on the thick metallic alloy that constitutes his head), he is one of the few villains left who actually has a sensible, simple motive. He wants to preserve the order of the Titans, and in this otherwise-benevolent interest he is willing to do terrible things. It makes him more compelling than the Jailer who is achktually playing 7d chess and is simultaneously secretly a super-nuanced character For Sure Guys and a one-dimensional bastard whose surface interest is effectively "lol make death happen" (which could even make for an interesting Satan allegory if the banality of evil were actually at play here). It's nice to have villains with actual motives again, a la Daelin Proudmoore.

So like, he is 100% confirmed villain now? Those text were very old.

[Jastall]

Honestly, I do get that sentiment. It is true that he is one of the more nuanced villains—as cathartic as it would be to put my whole fist in his skull (or, rather, break my hand on the thick metallic alloy that constitutes his head), he is one of the few villains left who actually has a sensible, simple motive. He wants to preserve the order of the Titans, and in this otherwise-benevolent interest he is willing to do terrible things. It makes him more compelling than the Jailer who is achktually playing 7d chess and is simultaneously secretly a super-nuanced character For Sure Guys and a one-dimensional bastard whose surface interest is effectively "lol make death happen" (which could even make for an interesting Satan allegory if the banality of evil were actually at play here). It's nice to have villains with actual motives again, a la Daelin Proudmoore.

I see him more as dark grey than a villain. He's definitely more bad than good and you could certainly make him go off the deep end ala Kael or Malygos or a hundred others who suddenly decided to genocide all the things so we could beat them up for purples, but I personally don't see the point. For one, you can already smack him in the face in two separate fights. For two, he brings more interesting drama by being an asshole that still has a clean and simple motive than by being a vile villain out to exterminate everyone that doesn't have golden skin and a fire beard because space gods say so. For three, Dragonflight has no lack of potential baddies and thus there's no real need to drag him out as raid boss fodder, especially when you consider the now inevitable timey whimey shenanigans to come with Nozdormu.

[Makabreska]

Ye, Oding seems like a dick towards mortals (and others), especially in those ancient texts. But honestly, pretty much everyone from Team Titan had a more or less "lol mortals, inferior and cursed" approach. We proven to the guy time and time again since Legion, so I really do not think he will come out as villainous, and especially not as a raid boss.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

I see him more as dark grey than a villain. He's definitely more bad than good and you could certainly make him go off the deep end ala Kael or Malygos or a hundred others who suddenly decided to genocide all the things so we could beat them up for purples, but I personally don't see the point. For one, you can already smack him in the face in two separate fights. For two, he brings more interesting drama by being an asshole that still has a clean and simple motive than by being a vile villain out to exterminate everyone that doesn't have golden skin and a fire beard because space gods say so. For three, Dragonflight has no lack of potential baddies and thus there's no real need to drag him out as raid boss fodder, especially when you consider the now inevitable timey whimey shenanigans to come with Nozdormu.

All a fair point. Regardless of the specifics, my primary point is that I agree that he's a far more nuanced character than most of his peers. I definitely hope he stays around for a bit, bastard he is.

[Ersula]

Ye, Oding seems like a dick towards mortals (and others), especially in those ancient texts. But honestly, pretty much everyone from Team Titan had a more or less "lol mortals, inferior and cursed" approach. We proven to the guy time and time again since Legion, so I really do not think he will come out as villainous, and especially not as a raid boss.

That's why Odyn & Murozond in a time-travel raid, where we go back in time to protect Avaloren from them, showing Odyn the strengths of mortals, would be an appropriate climax to that storyline.

[Makabreska]

That's why Odyn & Murozond in a time-travel raid, where we go back in time to protect Avaloren from them, showing Odyn the strengths of mortals, would be an appropriate climax to that storyline.

We already shown it to Odin in Legion, when we defeated him and Helya. Why should we do it again? Even if it's time travel, it is tiresome to prove ourselves over and over again.

[Auxis]

I mean, he is literally called Arthas. Doesn't get much more obvious he is partially inspired by Arthur.

And yes, Arthurian legend is very much referenced constantly, but the idea is quite clearly a dark reverse take, where the golden prince of a prosperous kingdom leads it to ruin, rather than a commoner leading his fallow kingdom to glory.

And his mentor is Uther. Arthur's father is Uther.

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We already shown it to Odin in Legion, when we defeated him and Helya. Why should we do it again? Even if it's time travel, it is tiresome to prove ourselves over and over again.

Then that would open a paradox, wouldn't it? Odyn wanted to test us in Legion.
We go back in time to.. post Sundering? Avaloren to prove to him that mortals are worthy. Either we get something from Odyn to do something in the present and allow the Bronze Flight to wipe their memories of the event, or.. IDK what else they could do. They'd have to wipe his memory or write him into a corner where he wanted to prove our worth again in Legion.

[Jastall]

That's why Odyn & Murozond in a time-travel raid, where we go back in time to protect Avaloren from them, showing Odyn the strengths of mortals, would be an appropriate climax to that storyline.

That wouldn't make much sense. Odyn wants us to prove ourselves (over and over) during Legion. That's when we show him the strength of mortals.

Gameplay wise it would also be the third time we fight him in an instance without killing him. Pretty stale if you ask me.

[Cheezits]

That is actually a fantastic question...
I don't think the ships Moores there are even used for any questlines anymore, so it shouldn't be a conflict with any of those.

They said there would be a new Stormwind dock, and it didn't happen. There is a brand new Alliance Airship model and tower model that weren't used, while Horde got their tower and revised airship. Also a brand new Night Elf ship that would make sense to be there, but isn't in Dragonflight (AFAIK)

So its pretty clear the Stormwind revisions got cancelled. However I think this is because it would have to be in the city: the Horde airship is just outside, but there is no place they could put a Stormwind version that would make sense.

I think they just postponed the tower and airship until Stormwind is revamped. Or they realized it wouldn't be fair if they didn't update Orgrimmar in some way, so they scrapped both ideas and just put the Horde tower outside of the city.

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That wouldn't make much sense. Odyn wants us to prove ourselves (over and over) during Legion. That's when we show him the strength of mortals.

Gameplay wise it would also be the third time we fight him in an instance without killing him. Pretty stale if you ask me.

It would be kind of poetic if we fight him a third time and we actually do kill him. Similarly to how Murozond can't die anywhere but Cata outside of some really weird shit happening.

[huth]

Then that would open a paradox, wouldn't it? Odyn wanted to test us in Legion.
We go back in time to.. post Sundering? Avaloren to prove to him that mortals are worthy. Either we get something from Odyn to do something in the present and allow the Bronze Flight to wipe their memories of the event, or.. IDK what else they could do. They'd have to wipe his memory or write him into a corner where he wanted to prove our worth again in Legion.

Over the course of ten thousand years with him not being the most fond of mortals to begin with? I'd say it wouldn't be to unreasonable that he simply forgets about it.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Over the course of ten thousand years with him not being the most fond of mortals to begin with? I'd say it wouldn't be to unreasonable that he simply forgets about it.

I'd prefer that he's just too proud of where he comes from to admit mortals are worth anything.

[Sondrelk]

They said there would be a new Stormwind dock, and it didn't happen. There is a brand new Alliance Airship model and tower model that weren't used, while Horde got their tower and revised airship. Also a brand new Night Elf ship that would make sense to be there, but isn't in Dragonflight (AFAIK)

So its pretty clear the Stormwind revisions got cancelled. However I think this is because it would have to be in the city: the Horde airship is just outside, but there is no place they could put a Stormwind version that would make sense.

I think they just postponed the tower and airship until Stormwind is revamped. Or they realized it wouldn't be fair if they didn't update Orgrimmar in some way, so they scrapped both ideas and just put the Horde tower outside of the city.

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It would be kind of poetic if we fight him a third time and we actually do kill him. Similarly to how Murozond can't die anywhere but Cata outside of some really weird shit happening.

Completely forgot about the potential revamped Stormwind. Unless it's an untested surprise feature I think it's fair to say it has been scrapped for now.

Best case scenario i suppose it might be coming later in the expansion.
The ship going to the Dragon Isles does make perfect sense so far, but that might change depending on stuff happening. A new World Tree being planted there is exactly the kind of thing that could lead to a new form of transportation being required.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Completely forgot about the potential revamped Stormwind. Unless it's an untested surprise feature I think it's fair to say it has been scrapped for now.

Best case scenario i suppose it might be coming later in the expansion.
The ship going to the Dragon Isles does make perfect sense so far, but that might change depending on stuff happening. A new World Tree being planted there is exactly the kind of thing that could lead to a new form of transportation being required.

I know that everything your saying is probably just reading into everything too deeply, but I'm frankly on so much fucking copium right now I'll agree with you on the principle of "I sure hope so".

[FlubberPuddy]

Ye, Oding seems like a dick towards mortals (and others), especially in those ancient texts. But honestly, pretty much everyone from Team Titan had a more or less "lol mortals, inferior and cursed" approach. We proven to the guy time and time again since Legion, so I really do not think he will come out as villainous, and especially not as a raid boss.

Except for Tyr, he's a real one.

[Cheezits]

This is going to sound like bullshit, but my Dracthyr on Beta was able to see a WIP model of armor covering its head, torso etc on the beta when previewing armor sets. I got DC'd and it reverted back to the shoulders/belt only.

Has anyone seen this before?

[loras]

All a fair point. Regardless of the specifics, my primary point is that I agree that he's a far more nuanced character than most of his peers. I definitely hope he stays around for a bit, bastard he is.

This.
Guy's one of the most interesting characters they've introduced in years.

[Tartys]

Ye, Oding seems like a dick towards mortals (and others), especially in those ancient texts. But honestly, pretty much everyone from Team Titan had a more or less "lol mortals, inferior and cursed" approach. We proven to the guy time and time again since Legion, so I really do not think he will come out as villainous, and especially not as a raid boss.

I wouldn't bet on it... its since Legion that he was claimed as a future "bad guy" not only because he is an "abusive father", that lost an eye to peer into the shadowlands (helped Mueh'zala btw).

Also, Odyn was vehemently against made Dragons as Aspect because, to him, only titan-forged could be trusted to defend Azeroth. De facto, we are the real defender of Azeroth and now we are working to give back the Dragons theyr power.

I dont think Odyn is happy by that.

[loras]

They don't need to be expansion plots in themselves, I'm just saying you got 3 plots that COULD bring the islands there:

1. Backside of Azeroth could be an expac in itself. Maybe it can be floating islands? Idk

2. Give us a Civil War expac, with Undermine as a megadungeon or something like that. Have Tel'abim and Plunder Isles be their own thing for the expac.

3. Give us an Underground expac with more Nerubian stuff, Void implications, Titanic structures underground, Azeroth soul stuff, etc.

We could also, y'know, reshape the land.
Put the old into chromie time.

Plenty of powers that can do that nowadays, thanks in part to our own meddling.
But beyond that the world can be built, broken, altered, whatever by nature, magic, men and more. No shortage of options.
And wouldn't it be neat to look at, say, the outlands, or rather what remains of them nowadays?
Maybe something new has happened to make it relevant again.

Also the broken isles weren't hidden, just remote and partially submerged, raised to the surface by the original Gul'dan in his quest for Sargeras' power.
But yeah the Dragon Isles do seem somewhat similar to Pandaria, though from what i've heard so far the Dragon Isles were less truly "lost" and more "impossible to reach if you don't get help from someone / something already there", supposedly due to being storm-shrouded or something.
Compare "Lands in the mists" to "Land unreachable because of endless storm", similar but not the same.

Oh and there is the option for simply building new land, in my own country we joke that God made the earth, but the dutch made the Netherlands. ^^

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This is going to sound like bullshit, but my Dracthyr on Beta was able to see a WIP model of armor covering its head, torso etc on the beta when previewing armor sets. I got DC'd and it reverted back to the shoulders/belt only.

Has anyone seen this before?

Let's hope this is a sign for things to come, the Drac'thyr desperately need more meaningful customisation instead of yet more excuses.