1. #69341
    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    Oh that's so cool actually. I guess the rotation takes time, but people who don't care can go use the portal. I'll gladly wait on the docks.
    Takes just as long as before honestly. When one ship leaves the other one almost immediately shows up.

    It is however quite annoying hat they use the same ship model for both, at least in the case of the Alliance. The names are obviously different, and you see a Dracthyr on the Dragon Isles ship so it's not difficult to tell, but would have preferred two different ships being used, so it's obvious at a glance which ship is currently docked.
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  2. #69342
    Banned Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    Yep, that's what I mean when I say they are not very likely to come to the game. They would have fit perfectly into BfA yet they choose not to do them, which makes me believe they'll never be a thing.
    Thing is though that Blizzard devs stated that Undermine survived the cataclysm, and that they want us to go to Undermine at some point in the future.

  3. #69343
    I'm not sure why they used the same dock as the Kultiras one when there are two free spaces right next to it.

  4. #69344
    Quote Originally Posted by Gifdwarf View Post
    I'm not sure why they used the same dock as the Kultiras one when there are two free spaces right next to it.
    That is actually a fantastic question...
    I don't think the ships Moores there are even used for any questlines anymore, so it shouldn't be a conflict with any of those.
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  5. #69345
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    Odyn as the final boss of SL is silly. Now that they are revisiting the concept that he is a big asshole, a little more publicly than his backstory with Helya, I think its possible that he will be A boss sometime down the road. There isn't an Order/Titan character more suited to be a villain other than the constellars, who are just doing their jobs, and Sargeras who doesn't count.

    The recent lore book doubles down on his arrogance and I kind of think its building up to some kind of reveal that he wants the Titan's glory all for himself.
    We already fought him twice. I'm not sure what a third fight would bring to the table, aside from having to massively villain bat one of the few remaining characters that is neither a paragon of virtue (much as he thinks otherwise I'm sure) nor a mustache twirling baby eater.

    If anything he's kinda like Bwonsamdi; an asshole, but our asshole. Except not as likeable.
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  6. #69346
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    that is neither a paragon of virtue (much as he thinks otherwise I'm sure) nor a mustache twirling baby eater.
    Honestly, I do get that sentiment. It is true that he is one of the more nuanced villains—as cathartic as it would be to put my whole fist in his skull (or, rather, break my hand on the thick metallic alloy that constitutes his head), he is one of the few villains left who actually has a sensible, simple motive. He wants to preserve the order of the Titans, and in this otherwise-benevolent interest he is willing to do terrible things. It makes him more compelling than the Jailer who is achktually playing 7d chess and is simultaneously secretly a super-nuanced character For Sure Guys and a one-dimensional bastard whose surface interest is effectively "lol make death happen" (which could even make for an interesting Satan allegory if the banality of evil were actually at play here). It's nice to have villains with actual motives again, a la Daelin Proudmoore.

  7. #69347
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Conceptuel View Post
    Honestly, I do get that sentiment. It is true that he is one of the more nuanced villains—as cathartic as it would be to put my whole fist in his skull (or, rather, break my hand on the thick metallic alloy that constitutes his head), he is one of the few villains left who actually has a sensible, simple motive. He wants to preserve the order of the Titans, and in this otherwise-benevolent interest he is willing to do terrible things. It makes him more compelling than the Jailer who is achktually playing 7d chess and is simultaneously secretly a super-nuanced character For Sure Guys and a one-dimensional bastard whose surface interest is effectively "lol make death happen" (which could even make for an interesting Satan allegory if the banality of evil were actually at play here). It's nice to have villains with actual motives again, a la Daelin Proudmoore.
    So like, he is 100% confirmed villain now? Those text were very old.
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2022-10-22 at 04:22 PM.
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  8. #69348
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Conceptuel View Post
    Honestly, I do get that sentiment. It is true that he is one of the more nuanced villains—as cathartic as it would be to put my whole fist in his skull (or, rather, break my hand on the thick metallic alloy that constitutes his head), he is one of the few villains left who actually has a sensible, simple motive. He wants to preserve the order of the Titans, and in this otherwise-benevolent interest he is willing to do terrible things. It makes him more compelling than the Jailer who is achktually playing 7d chess and is simultaneously secretly a super-nuanced character For Sure Guys and a one-dimensional bastard whose surface interest is effectively "lol make death happen" (which could even make for an interesting Satan allegory if the banality of evil were actually at play here). It's nice to have villains with actual motives again, a la Daelin Proudmoore.
    I see him more as dark grey than a villain. He's definitely more bad than good and you could certainly make him go off the deep end ala Kael or Malygos or a hundred others who suddenly decided to genocide all the things so we could beat them up for purples, but I personally don't see the point. For one, you can already smack him in the face in two separate fights. For two, he brings more interesting drama by being an asshole that still has a clean and simple motive than by being a vile villain out to exterminate everyone that doesn't have golden skin and a fire beard because space gods say so. For three, Dragonflight has no lack of potential baddies and thus there's no real need to drag him out as raid boss fodder, especially when you consider the now inevitable timey whimey shenanigans to come with Nozdormu.
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  9. #69349
    Elemental Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Ye, Oding seems like a dick towards mortals (and others), especially in those ancient texts. But honestly, pretty much everyone from Team Titan had a more or less "lol mortals, inferior and cursed" approach. We proven to the guy time and time again since Legion, so I really do not think he will come out as villainous, and especially not as a raid boss.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  10. #69350
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    I see him more as dark grey than a villain. He's definitely more bad than good and you could certainly make him go off the deep end ala Kael or Malygos or a hundred others who suddenly decided to genocide all the things so we could beat them up for purples, but I personally don't see the point. For one, you can already smack him in the face in two separate fights. For two, he brings more interesting drama by being an asshole that still has a clean and simple motive than by being a vile villain out to exterminate everyone that doesn't have golden skin and a fire beard because space gods say so. For three, Dragonflight has no lack of potential baddies and thus there's no real need to drag him out as raid boss fodder, especially when you consider the now inevitable timey whimey shenanigans to come with Nozdormu.
    All a fair point. Regardless of the specifics, my primary point is that I agree that he's a far more nuanced character than most of his peers. I definitely hope he stays around for a bit, bastard he is.

  11. #69351
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Ye, Oding seems like a dick towards mortals (and others), especially in those ancient texts. But honestly, pretty much everyone from Team Titan had a more or less "lol mortals, inferior and cursed" approach. We proven to the guy time and time again since Legion, so I really do not think he will come out as villainous, and especially not as a raid boss.
    That's why Odyn & Murozond in a time-travel raid, where we go back in time to protect Avaloren from them, showing Odyn the strengths of mortals, would be an appropriate climax to that storyline.

  12. #69352
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    That's why Odyn & Murozond in a time-travel raid, where we go back in time to protect Avaloren from them, showing Odyn the strengths of mortals, would be an appropriate climax to that storyline.
    We already shown it to Odin in Legion, when we defeated him and Helya. Why should we do it again? Even if it's time travel, it is tiresome to prove ourselves over and over again.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  13. #69353
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    I mean, he is literally called Arthas. Doesn't get much more obvious he is partially inspired by Arthur.

    And yes, Arthurian legend is very much referenced constantly, but the idea is quite clearly a dark reverse take, where the golden prince of a prosperous kingdom leads it to ruin, rather than a commoner leading his fallow kingdom to glory.
    And his mentor is Uther. Arthur's father is Uther.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    We already shown it to Odin in Legion, when we defeated him and Helya. Why should we do it again? Even if it's time travel, it is tiresome to prove ourselves over and over again.
    Then that would open a paradox, wouldn't it? Odyn wanted to test us in Legion.
    We go back in time to.. post Sundering? Avaloren to prove to him that mortals are worthy. Either we get something from Odyn to do something in the present and allow the Bronze Flight to wipe their memories of the event, or.. IDK what else they could do. They'd have to wipe his memory or write him into a corner where he wanted to prove our worth again in Legion.
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  14. #69354
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    That's why Odyn & Murozond in a time-travel raid, where we go back in time to protect Avaloren from them, showing Odyn the strengths of mortals, would be an appropriate climax to that storyline.
    That wouldn't make much sense. Odyn wants us to prove ourselves (over and over) during Legion. That's when we show him the strength of mortals.

    Gameplay wise it would also be the third time we fight him in an instance without killing him. Pretty stale if you ask me.
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  15. #69355
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    That is actually a fantastic question...
    I don't think the ships Moores there are even used for any questlines anymore, so it shouldn't be a conflict with any of those.
    They said there would be a new Stormwind dock, and it didn't happen. There is a brand new Alliance Airship model and tower model that weren't used, while Horde got their tower and revised airship. Also a brand new Night Elf ship that would make sense to be there, but isn't in Dragonflight (AFAIK)

    So its pretty clear the Stormwind revisions got cancelled. However I think this is because it would have to be in the city: the Horde airship is just outside, but there is no place they could put a Stormwind version that would make sense.

    I think they just postponed the tower and airship until Stormwind is revamped. Or they realized it wouldn't be fair if they didn't update Orgrimmar in some way, so they scrapped both ideas and just put the Horde tower outside of the city.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    That wouldn't make much sense. Odyn wants us to prove ourselves (over and over) during Legion. That's when we show him the strength of mortals.

    Gameplay wise it would also be the third time we fight him in an instance without killing him. Pretty stale if you ask me.
    It would be kind of poetic if we fight him a third time and we actually do kill him. Similarly to how Murozond can't die anywhere but Cata outside of some really weird shit happening.
    Last edited by Cheezits; 2022-10-22 at 06:32 PM.

  16. #69356
    Quote Originally Posted by Auxis View Post
    Then that would open a paradox, wouldn't it? Odyn wanted to test us in Legion.
    We go back in time to.. post Sundering? Avaloren to prove to him that mortals are worthy. Either we get something from Odyn to do something in the present and allow the Bronze Flight to wipe their memories of the event, or.. IDK what else they could do. They'd have to wipe his memory or write him into a corner where he wanted to prove our worth again in Legion.
    Over the course of ten thousand years with him not being the most fond of mortals to begin with? I'd say it wouldn't be to unreasonable that he simply forgets about it.

  17. #69357
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Over the course of ten thousand years with him not being the most fond of mortals to begin with? I'd say it wouldn't be to unreasonable that he simply forgets about it.
    I'd prefer that he's just too proud of where he comes from to admit mortals are worth anything.
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  18. #69358
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    They said there would be a new Stormwind dock, and it didn't happen. There is a brand new Alliance Airship model and tower model that weren't used, while Horde got their tower and revised airship. Also a brand new Night Elf ship that would make sense to be there, but isn't in Dragonflight (AFAIK)

    So its pretty clear the Stormwind revisions got cancelled. However I think this is because it would have to be in the city: the Horde airship is just outside, but there is no place they could put a Stormwind version that would make sense.

    I think they just postponed the tower and airship until Stormwind is revamped. Or they realized it wouldn't be fair if they didn't update Orgrimmar in some way, so they scrapped both ideas and just put the Horde tower outside of the city.

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    It would be kind of poetic if we fight him a third time and we actually do kill him. Similarly to how Murozond can't die anywhere but Cata outside of some really weird shit happening.
    Completely forgot about the potential revamped Stormwind. Unless it's an untested surprise feature I think it's fair to say it has been scrapped for now.

    Best case scenario i suppose it might be coming later in the expansion.
    The ship going to the Dragon Isles does make perfect sense so far, but that might change depending on stuff happening. A new World Tree being planted there is exactly the kind of thing that could lead to a new form of transportation being required.
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  19. #69359
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Completely forgot about the potential revamped Stormwind. Unless it's an untested surprise feature I think it's fair to say it has been scrapped for now.

    Best case scenario i suppose it might be coming later in the expansion.
    The ship going to the Dragon Isles does make perfect sense so far, but that might change depending on stuff happening. A new World Tree being planted there is exactly the kind of thing that could lead to a new form of transportation being required.
    I know that everything your saying is probably just reading into everything too deeply, but I'm frankly on so much fucking copium right now I'll agree with you on the principle of "I sure hope so".

  20. #69360
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Ye, Oding seems like a dick towards mortals (and others), especially in those ancient texts. But honestly, pretty much everyone from Team Titan had a more or less "lol mortals, inferior and cursed" approach. We proven to the guy time and time again since Legion, so I really do not think he will come out as villainous, and especially not as a raid boss.
    Except for Tyr, he's a real one.

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