1. #69541
    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Man View Post
    So the Nathrezim are interesting to me because we have one that died a demon and got resurrected on Argus then killed again which for demons would mean permanent death but we see again in Shadowlands
    Which one is this? I don't quite recall who you're talking about.

  2. #69542
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Conceptuel View Post
    Who is to determine what constitutes constant hysteria, or at that what constitutes a "really bad chance" or "cash grab"? Are we expected to all form some kind of senatus behind the scenes and determine when the time has come to complain?
    You. Are you telling me you can't difference shitpost from actual critique?

    Same with every drama, all you need is to do is basic research if complain is valid before you shout with everybody else.

  3. #69543
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    At the very least that would force people to actually think about it. Just yelling every time you don't like something doesn't help.
    What would force people to "actually think about it"? You're talking about a sentiment, not an object that can prompt a substantial change in behavior.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    You. Are you telling me you can't difference shitpost from actual critique?

    Same with every drama, all you need is to do is basic research if complain is valid before you shout with everybody else.
    Define what constitutes "basic research" according to your standards.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    I'd say this mostly shows that outside of expansion announcements and releases, it doesn't get talked about much anymore outside of specialised sources - which matches what we see in gaming news and which isn't really unexpected given that we're talking about a nearly 20 year old MMORPG in a time when MMORPGs are not a big topic anymore. That doesn't really say much about the game itself, though, more about how the rest of the world has changed.

    Where's your evidence for exceptional sub drops? And what do you mean "abruptly ends"? It's not like they just dropped the story halfway through.
    The wrap-up was quite awkward, I'd say. It seems like it was certainly shoved in there to get everything over with as soon as possible, much like seemed to be the case with WoD where the Legion suddenly popped in to give us a segue into the subsequent expansion and drop the Iron Horde plot as quickly as humanly possible. It seems difficult to imagine that Blizzard planned all along for the expansion to end at the .2 patch, and it certainly is difficult to interpret that as a good sign for that expansion. At the very least, it seems plausible that a raid tier was cut.

    Your other argument is mostly fair. However, it still strike me as odd that there occurred a substantial drop in searches specifically simultaneous with the apex of Shadowlands. There was previously a very consistent rate at which the search rate was decreasingly steadily. The drop-off which occurred after Shadowlands was far more severe.
    Last edited by Le Conceptuel; 2022-10-18 at 04:09 AM.

  4. #69544
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Conceptuel View Post
    Define what constitutes "basic research" according to your standards..
    Check if information drama is based on is a lie or not. If something is not confirmed, wait few hours before it's clarified. It's that simple.

  5. #69545
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    Check if information drama is based on is a lie or not. If something is not confirmed, wait few hours before it's clarified. It's that simple.
    That's much easier said than done. What if information is vague, unavailable, or subject to differing interpretations? What if there isn't strictly a confirmed time at which something can be "clarified"? You're thinking simplistically.

  6. #69546
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Conceptuel View Post
    Which one is this? I don't quite recall who you're talking about.
    my bad i got mal switched with varimathras

  7. #69547
    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Man View Post
    my bad i got mal switched with varimathras
    Ah, that's fair. Yes, as far as I know we've got confirmation that the Dreadlords are beings of the Twisting Nether now for all intents and purposes, so I was wondering if there was someone I missed.

  8. #69548
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Conceptuel View Post
    That's much easier said than done. What if information is vague, unavailable, or subject to differing interpretations? What if there isn't strictly a confirmed time at which something can be "clarified"? You're thinking simplistically.
    depends on the subject
    take dragon riding for example
    you will find people saying it takes forever for vigor to recharge and its slower than regular flying because of it and requires hours to collect upgrades

    videos showing upgrades quickly gained and vigor recharge baseline requiring maybe a minute for full charge

  9. #69549
    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Man View Post
    depends on the subject
    take dragon riding for example
    you will find people saying it takes forever for vigor to recharge and its slower than regular flying because of it and requires hours to collect upgrades

    videos showing upgrades quickly gained and vigor recharge baseline requiring maybe a minute for full charge
    That's entirely fair, but covers only the breadth of a very specific topic. What of topics on which information is scarce? These will require more in the way of intuition since it's difficult to find concrete information. Conversations on the overall health of the game will be very different from conversations regarding individual facets.

  10. #69550
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Conceptuel View Post
    That's entirely fair, but covers only the breadth of a very specific topic. What of topics on which information is scarce? These will require more in the way of intuition since it's difficult to find concrete information. Conversations on the overall health of the game will be very different from conversations regarding individual facets.
    but with the guy who is saying its a doomed game he isnt being vague
    he had listed reasons all of which can be dismissed because he himself admits only limited secondhand knowledge

  11. #69551
    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Man View Post
    but with the guy who is saying its a doomed game he isnt being vague
    he had listed reasons all of which can be dismissed because he himself admits only limited secondhand knowledge
    In that particular case, I'd certainly say the objection is fair. I was saying that broadly dismissing "doomsayers" is dangerous, not that anybody in particular had a very strong point.

  12. #69552
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Conceptuel View Post
    Ah, that's fair. Yes, as far as I know we've got confirmation that the Dreadlords are beings of the Twisting Nether now for all intents and purposes, so I was wondering if there was someone I missed.
    They're beings of the Shadowlands. Denathrius' decree that they be banished from the Shadowlands inadvertently (but intentionally) created a situation where they stay in the plane of the living when they are killed.

    The Mal'ganis questline in Korthia was about how the Venthyr & Stoneborn became tilted that Denathrius created a combination of both (Venthyr + Stoneborn = Nathrazim) so he banished them, but that was what he wanted to do all along; so they could be his spies throughout the universe. Any prior explanation was just them pretending to be demons.
    Last edited by Ersula; 2022-10-18 at 05:50 AM.

  13. #69553
    In other news, I really hope they get to squashing more profession bugs next update cause right now the UI is borked and work orders are still not working properly. But at least they got World Quests to work again. I still keep randomly crashing left and right though.

  14. #69554
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    You confuse what DF is; it's shadowlands with most of the borrowed-power baked in. The rest? Same systems, same design philosophy, same everything. I have been following beta closely this time, if you haven't, let me enlighten you; they ignored pretty much all the feedback. In SL, the ignored the problems with covenants. In DF, they are ignoring problems with talents. Retri is a fucking joke. DH is ok number wise, but the design philosophy there is a fucking joke. Evoker is not ready to ship. And from what I read, Shadow Priests, Guardian Druids are fucked too. They are now preparing the addict masses to the new idea that each expansion is going to have 8 and only 8 new dungeons. Half of it at the start and other half after months, and the rest is rehashed shit. That's effectively 4 new dungeons. It is beyond me why there is not a community outrage about the amount of content we are getting...Dragonflight will go live with broken classes and extremely poor content to bump 4th quarterly results.

    This expansion is bound to fail.
    Aah found one! The paladin discord already said the unknowing would screech that retri is shit.
    They went from way way overtuned to in line with others. Sorry that Blizzard pissed in your cereals and you can't be op during release. Guess you'll have to find the next fotm to go to!

  15. #69555
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    I guess I forgot about that.

    That makes me wonder though, did she originate there? How are the priestesses of Elune and the Sunwalkers, (assuming An'she and Elune are from the same plane or even the same person) using holy abilities? Why would Elune give them powers from another plane? Unless of course she is more like the Titans, and can use abilities from all the planes at will.
    Canon Priestess of the moon abilities are closer to Balance Druid kit than any priest spec.

    Every race's priests using the same holy spells is justgame mechanics.

  16. #69556
    Quote Originally Posted by 8bithamster View Post
    Aah found one! The paladin discord already said the unknowing would screech that retri is shit.
    They went from way way overtuned to in line with others. Sorry that Blizzard pissed in your cereals and you can't be op during release. Guess you'll have to find the next fotm to go to!
    Funny, that you say that and right after wowhead posts this article-

    https://www.wowhead.com/news/retribu...nt-tree-329400

    Their ret paladin guide writer is not happy with the current state of the spec on beta.
    unclench your jaw

  17. #69557
    Quote Originally Posted by 8bithamster View Post
    Aah found one! The paladin discord already said the unknowing would screech that retri is shit.
    They went from way way overtuned to in line with others. Sorry that Blizzard pissed in your cereals and you can't be op during release. Guess you'll have to find the next fotm to go to!
    I honestly expected them to nerf Prot before Ret. The ST AS build was oppressive in PvP and could match most dps in PvE while building constant absorb shields.

  18. #69558
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    In other news, I really hope they get to squashing more profession bugs next update cause right now the UI is borked and work orders are still not working properly. But at least they got World Quests to work again. I still keep randomly crashing left and right though.
    I crash in combat now compared to just crashing while herbing

    The ui I'd screwed but at least it's only the visuals and I can look at WQs now and tailoring has shown me that professions are overall really quick and easy so while leveling I'm enchanting tailor then at cap after I make my cape and speed enchants I'll either drop for herbalist inscription or keep for a raid level cloak

    Debating doing all dragon races for the mog reward since I have no interest in grinding in beta

  19. #69559
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Er... about that...
    There is nothing about that...

    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Also, because the First Ones told them not to, just like with the pantheon of Death. And if there's anybody in the multiverse that is going to follow a rule, it's the Order guys.
    Given that the Titans are straight out trying to conceal the existence of the First Ones, it seems unlikely that they hold them in high enough regard, to follow unquestionably their rules.
    unclench your jaw

  20. #69560
    Quote Originally Posted by 8bithamster View Post
    Aah found one! The paladin discord already said the unknowing would screech that retri is shit.
    They went from way way overtuned to in line with others. Sorry that Blizzard pissed in your cereals and you can't be op during release. Guess you'll have to find the next fotm to go to!
    A big issue is mainly its boring and the class tree has little choice but yeah people saying it's trash or broken are just toddlers

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