Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[huth]

I mean, they turned highly obsolete (or even dead) zones into a great question experience (Azshara, Westfall, Darkshore). Sure, it is not endgame, but considering how many times I leveled through them since Cata, I say it was worth it. But ye, the gameplay improvement was done, so now they would mainly improve visuals and updated the story. Not worth it.

That quickly became obsolete and dead again, so nothing of note was achieved there. Mind, not worth it doesn't mean they didn't get anything out of it; it means they didn't enough out of it to justify the investment.

[Makabreska]

That quickly became obsolete and dead again, so nothing of note was achieved there. Mind, not worth it doesn't mean they didn't get anything out of it; it means they didn't enough out of it to justify the investment.

The leveling experience did not become obsolete. The fact that Azshara (and many other places) was transformed from no quest zone into a full leveling zone was not meaningless. Across both Vanilla continents quest chains got streamlined, auto complete got implemented, we got more choices in where to level up. To this day I see plenty of players leveling in old zones, when logically thinking they should rather go to BfA/SL. Dead and obsolete my ass. Don't look at Cata revamp only in the context of story.

[Cheezits]

That would be nice. Like nothing's changed. I just don't really see them doing that for some reason though. For example, why even take the seed to the Dragon Isles in the first place?

The world tree seeds are SUPPOSED to be blessed by each Aspect, but because Fandral cheated/was corrupt he skipped that, leading to the tree being corrupted itself. So Tyrande is following the old ways.

Why she didn't do it during the timeskip is up in the air.

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That's probably quite a bit of a stretch. It was, however, most definitely a major resource cost that ultimately wasn't worth the effort for the developers, so i still doubt they'd ever do it again.

The revamp wasn't worth it because they did the whole thing in the stretch of one expansion development cycle. As we have seen since WoD, old models have been revamped and retouched, and in BFA we saw that they can simply retexture and recontextualize existing zones with some new buildings. I think that we have a handful of old models that still need to be updated (cows) but other than that? What is left? They just did the Alliance/Horde airships and one of them isn't even used. Same with the Nelf and Belf ships. They are absolutely building towards some use of all these redone models.

[Varodoc]

Danuser's comments on Gilneas are probably the most decisive thing. Plans might change but it really does seem like they will do a reclamation of Gilneas thing, and we know it's not the heritage quest (as that wasn't what happened).

If they want to do Gilneas, what else will happen? And what would the Horde equivalent be? Most importantly... what would the context be?

The Horde equivalent of a restored Gilneas is the Bilgewater city in Azshara, which they have had since Cataclysm.

While the Gilneans were living as refugees in Darnassus and Greymane was Varian's butler, the Bilgewater goblins had built a new city in Azshara and practically took over the entire region.

The Worgen and Goblin were introduced in the same expansion so they are juxtaposed. It just so happens that the Horde race had a whole new city and a new zone they took over, while the Worgen were just refugees in the Night elf capital.

The Night elf capital was also destroyed btw, so the Gilneans were evicted twice from their home; meanwhile, the Bilgewater city in Azshara still stands.

[Xilurm]

The world tree seeds are SUPPOSED to be blessed by each Aspect, but because Fandral cheated/was corrupt he skipped that, leading to the tree being corrupted itself. So Tyrande is following the old ways.

Why she didn't do it during the timeskip is up in the air.

It would be nice if they got their immortality back.

[Makabreska]

It would be nice if they got their immortality back.

What would be nice about it? Sacrificing it in W3 allowed them relate more to mortal races, forced them to open up to the world and form a better alliances. Suddenly regaining it would be weird AF and would serve no real purpose, beside making them suddenly stand out.

[Xilurm]

What would be nice about it? Sacrificing it in W3 allowed them relate more to mortal races, forced them to open up to the world and form a better alliances. Suddenly regaining it would be weird AF and would serve no real purpose, beside making them suddenly stand out.

Relate aka make them purple humans. I'm so tired of this.

Why would it be weird? Don't think they would suddenly stand out either, they already live very long lives, it wouldn't matter.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

What would be nice about it? Sacrificing it in W3 allowed them relate more to mortal races, forced them to open up to the world and form a better alliances. Suddenly regaining it would be weird AF and would serve no real purpose, beside making them suddenly stand out.

Really its almost immortality, if it was they'd never die and well that wasn't true before the lost it. Not succombing to aging is certainly not a bad thing and storywise, I have a hard time believing players give a damn if Nelves can't age/be ageless.

[Makabreska]

Relate aka make them purple humans. I'm so tired of this.

Why would it be weird? Don't think they would suddenly stand out either, they already live very long lives, it wouldn't matter.

So why bring it back, if it doesn't matter? That is a pretty big story development for a single race. Also, it would not suddenly and magically change their writing.

[Xilurm]

So why bring it back, if it doesn't matter? That is a pretty big story development for a single race. Also, it would not suddenly and magically change their writing.

It doesn't matter in the sense it won't matter to the other races. It would be a nice little win for the Nelf players/fans though. Also, if they can put a meaningless wedding in-game they can do this.

Speaking of which, are Dracthyr immortal?

[huth]

It would be nice if they got their immortality back.

It would be completely irrelevant within the timeframe of the game. Even without their immortality, elves can reach over a millenium. The game won't span a timeframe where any elven character even noticeably ages.

[Xilurm]

It would be completely irrelevant within the timeframe of the game. Even without their immortality, elves can reach over a millenium. The game won't span a timeframe where any elven character even noticeably ages.

Yes, but it's the thought that counts.

[Nymrohd]

It would be completely irrelevant within the timeframe of the game. Even without their immortality, elves can reach over a millenium. The game won't span a timeframe where any elven character even noticeably ages.

We did have the plot of an elderly night elf looking to regain their immortality back in MoP. Ofc most of them probably got BBQ'd by the Horde so it's not nearly as important a plot point anymore; the Night Elves had a much more burning confrontation with mortality than just aging.

[Luck4]

The Horde equivalent of a restored Gilneas is the Bilgewater city in Azshara, which they have had since Cataclysm.

This is why we need a World Revamp, while Alliance gets Gilneas back Blizzard can send Bilgewater offshore into the sea and remake it as a minor city because people from both factions want something, but the problem is that only Alliance has been losing stuff, so the only way to avoid drama while giving Alliance stuff back is by revamping the existing Horde counterpart stuff they've never lost.

Yet, it's funny to see that some people think that for every Alliance loss the Horde also lost something, which isn't the case since Cataclysm.

[Kiria]

considering the previous EK/Kalimdor revamp is arguably the single most hated thing in WoW, why on earth do you think they would make the colossal mistake of repeating it?

This is extremely untrue, Cata revamp came with some of the best new questing experience one could want... I was just saying last night how much I enjoyed Cata compared to classic while levelling a new warlock.

[Varodoc]

This is why we need a World Revamp, while Alliance gets Gilneas back Blizzard can send Bilgewater offshore into the sea and remake it as a minor city because people from both factions want something, but the problem is that only Alliance has been losing stuff, so the only way to avoid drama while giving Alliance stuff back is by revamping the existing Horde counterpart stuff they've never lost.

Yet, it's funny to see that some people think that for every Alliance loss the Horde also lost something, which isn't the case since Cataclysm.

Indeed. It wasn't the case in BfA either.

Because, while all of Teldrassil was annihilated, the Forsaken still retained their holdings in Tirisfal around the Capital City (Deathknell, the Bulwark, Calston Estate). This is a truth that some Horde players unfortunately failed to grasp, as they genuinely believed the loss of Teldrassil was mirrored by the loss of Undercity. Even though it wasn't the case, since the elves lost their ENTIRE ZONE, while the Forsaken lost only the capital city, but retained other holdings in the zone.

The Alliance has always lost more than the Horde.

This is evident in Cataclysm, where the Bilgewater goblin built a new city in Azshara and took over the entire region, while the Worgen lived as refugees in Darnassus. And while Gallywix had an entire mountain range sculpted to resemble his face, Greymane was living as a disgraced butler to Varian.

When Gilneas is restored, the Horde doesn't deserve anything in return. The goblin, the Worgen's Horde counterpart, already got their restoration in Cataclysm.

So the Night elves will restore their homeland by using the new world seed (mirroring the restoration of the Ruins of Lordaeron), and the Worgen will restore Gilneas. But the Horde is done with their restorations, they don't deserve anything else.

[Makabreska]

We did have the plot of an elderly night elf looking to regain their immortality back in MoP. Ofc most of them probably got BBQ'd by the Horde so it's not nearly as important a plot point anymore; the Night Elves had a much more burning confrontation with mortality than just aging.

In that questline he realized the folly of that endeavour, when he sees his daughter die during the fight with Mogu. He then sacrifices himself to bring her back. This story basically shows nelves ditching any attempts at immortality. Sure, it's a side quest from 8y ago, but it nicely shown they really don't need pre-W3 state to be restored.

[Nymrohd]

In that questline he realized the folly of that endeavour, when he sees his daughter die during the fight with Mogu. He then sacrifices himself to bring her back. This story basically shows nelves ditching any attempts at immortality. Sure, it's a side quest from 8y ago, but it nicely shown they really don't need pre-W3 state to be restored.

Sure, he believed that. Fandral did not and many night elves did not either or else he wouldn't have had such an easy job recruiting. And after the War of Thorns more of them will be questioning their culture as we can see with plenty of them joining the Primalists. All I am saying is, this can easily be revisited by Blizzard. If anything, the futility of the Afterlife being laid bare for all to see should make more night elves seek back immortality, not less. And given it was once handed by the Aspects who refused it the second time (with Noz not blessing Teldrassil), claiming it by force via the Primalist cause could be a storyline for them. Sadly so far in Dragonflight the villains lack any nuance in their stories.

[Murlocos]

I imagine Blizzard saw the world revamp as a poison pill: it absolutely needed to be done at some point, questing was rapidly evolving and the stuff we have in 2010 Cata is much closer to 2022 modern questing than 2004 vanilla to Cata, but it was a huge amount of effort just for a good chunk of the playerbase to mostly ignore it and complain about a lack of endgame content. It was a long term investment that's paid off down the line, some of the revamped zones (Silverpine, Hillsbrad, Redridge, Duskwood, Loch Modan, etc.) still see plenty of players because the questing flow is so smooth and the exp rates so high.

Semi-related, am I crazy or did Blizzard comment at some point that splitting up the 80-85 zones was a mistake and not something they wanted to repeat again? Either way, SL showed it definitely doesn't work out well. Hell, BfA could get annoying with loading screens hopping back and forth between the islands.

[Makabreska]

Sure, he believed that. Fandral did not and many night elves did not either or else he wouldn't have had such an easy job recruiting. And after the War of Thorns more of them will be questioning their culture as we can see with plenty of them joining the Primalists. All I am saying is, this can easily be revisited by Blizzard. If anything, the futility of the Afterlife being laid bare for all to see should make more night elves seek back immortality, not less. And given it was once handed by the Aspects who refused it the second time (with Noz not blessing Teldrassil), claiming it by force via the Primalist cause could be a storyline for them. Sadly so far in Dragonflight the villains lack any nuance in their stories.

Is this a reliable metric? Do we have some info specifically saying nelves ale plenty in their ranks? Because most big cults so far (Cult of the Damned or Twilight) had basically all races in the fold. Also, Fandral example should rather show them how foolish it is to chase immortality and how hard it can backfire on them when they ally themselves with dubious powers.