Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Fahrad Wagner]

Love the bit with the violin. Going to assume that is the music for the Azure Span, to really make it sound similar to Grizzly Hills and Howling Fjords.

I was just about to comment on this, it's definitely a throwback to Grizzly Hills, and a well executed one I must say! Looking forward to hear all the other music pieces they have in store for this expansion!

[Nymrohd]

A new warcraft mmo would be amazing, but they don't really have a reason to develop it. Wow is 18 years old and is still the top (second top, depending on what you believe) of its genre. They have no reason to push for another mmo especially considering the cost. Maybe things will change once the riot mmo is out.

First off, was joking. Second the joke was not for the new game to be an MMO, it was for it to be a Sims real estate game completely about building properties (and maybe selling them?)

[Prenderghast]

Didnt Ion mention housing in some interview where he talked about Dragonflight not being the right time for housing? Or did I just imagine him saying something to that effect?
I know that I argued that housing would only really work if it was coupled with a world revamp, or otherwise some expansion with heavy emphasis on Stormwind and Orgrimmar, but I feel like Ion vaguely said something in that direction as well.

I don't think the issue with housing is that it's impossible to have in WoW. Just that it would be excessively difficult to implement in any way that satisfies those that are used to stuff like Wildstar or similar.
The amount of effort that would be required just for the basic stuff like asset placement would be immense, and I doubt they would do all of that in one go.

Yep - it was in Ion's interview with Hazelnuttygames the week of DF reveal (full thing is on youtube if you want to watch it). Hazel asked what sorts of considerations take features such as player housing on or off of the table.

Ion said that player housing is something many people on the team want, but that they want to do it the right way, and to do so would take a huge amount of effort and probably wouldn't be something they implement all in one go. He called back to WoD garrisons and addressed how they were a let-down in regards to customizability, and elaborated on the "it would cost a raid tier" line that is often thrown around. Basic jist of his answer: The devs want it, it would be really hard and would come at the cost of something else, they're not planning on it for Dragonflight, but the dream lives on.

All in all it was a pretty well-explained and reasonable answer. If she had just asked something like "player housing when" I think she wouldn't have gotten so much out of him; but asking more about the considerations that go into that sort of decision lent itself to a more interesting take.

That interview was in April of this year and is the most recent insight on player housing that I know of, although based on other comments in this thread it sounds like Preach may have addressed it recently as well.

[infinitemeridian]

Yep - it was in Ion's interview with Hazelnuttygames the week of DF reveal (full thing is on youtube if you want to watch it). Hazel asked what sorts of considerations take features such as player housing on or off of the table.

Ion said that player housing is something many people on the team want, but that they want to do it the right way, and to do so would take a huge amount of effort and probably wouldn't be something they implement all in one go. He called back to WoD garrisons and addressed how they were a let-down in regards to customizability, and elaborated on the "it would cost a raid tier" line that is often thrown around. Basic jist of his answer: The devs want it, it would be really hard and would come at the cost of something else, they're not planning on it for Dragonflight, but the dream lives on.

All in all it was a pretty well-explained and reasonable answer. If she had just asked something like "player housing when" I think she wouldn't have gotten so much out of him; but asking more about the considerations that go into that sort of decision lent itself to a more interesting take.

That interview was in April of this year and is the most recent insight on player housing that I know of, although based on other comments in this thread it sounds like Preach may have addressed it recently as well.

The real problem is the playerbase doesn't want it. Bring up housing and half of this website will tell you it's "pointless". They just want to raidlog and call it a day.

[Sondrelk]

The real problem is the playerbase doesn't want it. Bring up housing and half of this website will tell you it's "pointless". They just want to raidlog and call it a day.

I think it's more that making housing good would take an extremely large amount of upfront development before it could end up good. And that endpoint is basically just another collection tab like transmog and battle pets.

Just doesn't seem worth it for what should ideally not interact with player power at all.

[Raetary]

The real problem is the playerbase doesn't want it. Bring up housing and half of this website will tell you it's "pointless". They just want to raidlog and call it a day.

MMO Champion is not in any way, shape or form an indicator for general sentiment of the playerbase.

[Berkilak]

So happy there is a long version indeed!

Likewise, but I would still like to see a dragon or two in flight on the Dragonflight login screen...

- - - Updated - - -

I think it's more that making housing good would take an extremely large amount of upfront development before it could end up good. And that endpoint is basically just another collection tab like transmog and battle pets.

Just doesn't seem worth it for what should ideally not interact with player power at all.

A certain other entry into the genre has shown that systems that do not interact with player power can indeed be worthy of investment...

... assuming the developer actually respects their own content.

[Koollan]

I think it's more that making housing good would take an extremely large amount of upfront development before it could end up good. And that endpoint is basically just another collection tab like transmog and battle pets.

Just doesn't seem worth it for what should ideally not interact with player power at all.

I know of a specific WoW server that will remain unnamed that does player housing right - but it's a passion project with zero money funneling into it. It simply would not be profitable for Blizzard, other than filling up more subscriptions. Player housing is more of a server issue than an implementation issue. The tools are there to get it done, but server volume is the limiting factor here.

[infinitemeridian]

MMO Champion is not in any way, shape or form an indicator for general sentiment of the playerbase.

Sure, but the sentiment is not uncommon in other areas (Reddit, in-game, forums, discord, etc.). And if we can't leverage that when talking about it, then how can you expect any sort of discussion?

[Raetary]

Sure, but the sentiment is not uncommon in other areas (Reddit, in-game, forums, discord, etc.). And if we can't leverage that when talking about it, then how can you expect any sort of discussion?

Is it?
Or are the people with the sentiment merely the vocal ones?

People pushing for player housing get tons of views, shares and upvotes across every piece of media.
Even on this site whenever there is a poll it's always more positively received.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I know of a specific WoW server that will remain unnamed that does player housing right - but it's a passion project with zero money funneling into it. It simply would not be profitable for Blizzard, other than filling up more subscriptions. Player housing is more of a server issue than an implementation issue. The tools are there to get it done, but server volume is the limiting factor here.

Is said unnamed server actually playable wow or is it just a customization tool wearing wows skin?

[Koollan]

Is said unnamed server actually playable wow or is it just a customization tool wearing wows skin?

More the latter than the former. It's made for roleplayers, storytellers and campaign enthusiasts.

[Catastrophy349]

Soooo gooood!!! https://www.wowhead.com/news/dragonf...apter-2-329649

[Makabreska]

[Lorgar Aurelian]

More the latter than the former. It's made for roleplayers, storytellers and campaign enthusiasts.

Ah, if that’s the case wouldn’t be surprised if they got around the code problem by just cutting out abunch of needed code for gameplay or just taking the assets and putting them on new Rp based code.

[Koollan]

Ah, if that’s the case wouldn’t be surprised if they got around the code problem by just cutting out abunch of needed code for gameplay or just taking the assets and putting them on new Rp based code.

Nah, the gameplay code is definitely still there. It's not like you can just cut out parts of the game to add new ones. The reason the gameplay portions are gone is because of scripting encounters, behaviors - you can even make NPCs cast things, move, patrol, and all sorts of stuff like that. Combat and encounters are simply not necessary or feasible with such a system. It would require every person on that server to learn how to code WoW. It's meant for D&D type experiences.

[Sondrelk]

[video]

Noice.
Guess the missing piece of the puzzle that Nozdormu wants is related to the Dracthyr then, and whatever they realized when they fought the Primalists or whoever. My guess will be that Nozdormu will learn that they were all experiments of the Titans, as shown by the Halls of Infusion.
I would also guess that we will learn that Neltharion didnt fall entirely because of the Old Gods, but rather because he too learned about what the Titans had done to them.

This cinematic definitely feels a step above the last one in terms of impact, have to say. Though all I can think is how much I want a HD revamp of the Warrior set from Dragon Soul. The old one obviously being based on Deathwing, and a new one hopefully being based on his uncorrupted version.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Nah, the gameplay code is definitely still there. It's not like you can just cut out parts of the game to add new ones. The reason the gameplay portions are gone is because of scripting encounters, behaviors - you can even make NPCs cast things, move, patrol, and all sorts of stuff like that. Combat and encounters are simply not necessary or feasible with such a system. It would require every person on that server to learn how to code WoW. It's meant for D&D type experiences.

I’m not a coder but I’d think it would be like the old classic servers where the host will piece stuff together to make things more or less work even if it’s not the same functionality as actual wow.

Like the code might be there like the old classic rips but getting it all working together is beyond the average hobbyist without the tools blizzard use and adding some new functionality may cause conflicts leading to parts being turned off.

[Koollan]

I’m not a coder but I’d think it would be like the old classic servers where the host will piece stuff together to make things more or less work even if it’s not the same functionality as actual wow.

Like the code might be there like the old classic rips but getting it all working together is beyond the average hobbyist without the tools blizzard use and adding some new functionality may cause conflicts leading to parts being turned off.

This is by and large correct. However, the point being is that the server runs mostly off of WoW developer tools and functions off of how assets are stored in the game. These are tools that are simply redirected from developer hands and into player hands. Did you know that WoW zone developers place items in the world (like fences, pillows, lamps, houses, etc.) by spawning them onto their player-character and adjusting the placement? Same thing applies on that server. It's just giving players access to the tools developers use ingame to make their world.

[Polybius]

I know people like to shit on Shadowlands for not having Shaman content, but now that we're seeing Shaman stuff in Dragonflight... I think this was intentional?

The ancestral spirit stuff is not confirmed a retcon yet. There may absolutely be a place that some shamanistic spirits go that is NOT the Shadowlands. Or, the Shaman afterlife will get mentioned here now that Shamanism is relevant to the expansion. We already see that Wild Gods go to restore in the Dream and multiple gods snatch up souls on Azeroth.

We're getting heavy hints that Elements come from the Lifelands or some sector of it, so I think that the Ancestral Plane being retconed into a place for Shaman spirits to chill in the Lifelands would be cool and make some sense.

Also: Monks and Shamans use the same energy. It was 100% intentional to leave them out at the same time.

We technically have the elemental planes on Azeroth and Emerald Dream. The one mention we never saw in SL was the Astral plane.