Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Xilurm]

Apparently both ships come into the same dock on a rotation so you could easily get on and end up going to the wrong zone.

Oh that's so cool actually. I guess the rotation takes time, but people who don't care can go use the portal. I'll gladly wait on the docks.

[Bsirk]

We already did that. If you go to Chromie again as a lvl 80 toon she gives you a quest to go help your past self.

So your level 74 or whatever toon gets help from your lvl 80 toon.

Well I must have missed that and it makes me sad. lol

[Nyel]

But why? Dragon Isles was just an idea really, we had one picture with an octopus thing and I doubt that's even going to be in the game. If you're talking about Azeroth in general they are never going to leave Azeroth completely behind.

Dragon Isles is a decade old thing, even if it was just mentioned before. I don't know any other places like that except Undermine / Tel'Abim as others have mentioned. They can't make up infinite amounts of archipelagos on Azeroth, it just feels wrong. Dragon Isles are already quite a stretch. How often are we going to, all of a sudden, find and explore mysteriously hidden islands? Happened three times now (Pandaria, Broken Isles, Dragon Isles) - the trope is overused already.

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Actually...no...

Undermine, backside of Azeroth (which is but a rumor), Tel'abim, Plunder Isle, MAYBE more of underground Azeroth, lots of mainland Azeroth plotlines, etc...

That's like 3 potential expansion plots there...

I give you the underground expansion stuff, but all the other islands are just no going to make it imho.

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Balance has one new button and that is the mushroom.

And Stellar Flare which is pretty much baseline and mandatory now for the spec. It's not about new skills, it's about all the interactions and they made it just too complicated for specs like Balance and Shadow.

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They both sound like single zone ideas, maybe two each at a stretch.
Undermine is said to be large, but it's still effectively just the goblin capital, there are limits to how large you can make a wow city before it stretches credibility.
Tel'abim meanwhile is essentially a joke location, and while i don't see a problem with it being a zone, i think it's an issue to have carry an expansion.

Really lots of these locations would fit into a south Seas expansion along with other single zone ideas like Plunder isle. However not of these got taken by BfA, and I find it difficult to assume we will have another island based expansion after BfA took most of the good ideas.

Yep, that's what I mean when I say they are not very likely to come to the game. They would have fit perfectly into BfA yet they choose not to do them, which makes me believe they'll never be a thing.

[Jaggler]

Dragon Isles is a decade old thing, even if it was just mentioned before. I don't know any other places like that except Undermine / Tel'Abim as others have mentioned. They can't make up infinite amounts of archipelagos on Azeroth, it just feels wrong. Dragon Isles are already quite a stretch. How often are we going to, all of a sudden, find and explore mysteriously hidden islands? Happened three times now (Pandaria, Broken Isles, Dragon Isles) - the trope is overused already.

We didn't really find the Broken Isles, did we? We just didn't have much reason to go there.

[Gifdwarf]

Pandaria and the Dragon Isles are the only continents that were hidden to us, and Uldum too but that was just a zone.

[Sondrelk]

Oh that's so cool actually. I guess the rotation takes time, but people who don't care can go use the portal. I'll gladly wait on the docks.

Takes just as long as before honestly. When one ship leaves the other one almost immediately shows up.

It is however quite annoying hat they use the same ship model for both, at least in the case of the Alliance. The names are obviously different, and you see a Dracthyr on the Dragon Isles ship so it's not difficult to tell, but would have preferred two different ships being used, so it's obvious at a glance which ship is currently docked.

[Teriz]

Yep, that's what I mean when I say they are not very likely to come to the game. They would have fit perfectly into BfA yet they choose not to do them, which makes me believe they'll never be a thing.

Thing is though that Blizzard devs stated that Undermine survived the cataclysm, and that they want us to go to Undermine at some point in the future.

[Gifdwarf]

I'm not sure why they used the same dock as the Kultiras one when there are two free spaces right next to it.

[Sondrelk]

I'm not sure why they used the same dock as the Kultiras one when there are two free spaces right next to it.

That is actually a fantastic question...
I don't think the ships Moores there are even used for any questlines anymore, so it shouldn't be a conflict with any of those.

[Jastall]

Odyn as the final boss of SL is silly. Now that they are revisiting the concept that he is a big asshole, a little more publicly than his backstory with Helya, I think its possible that he will be A boss sometime down the road. There isn't an Order/Titan character more suited to be a villain other than the constellars, who are just doing their jobs, and Sargeras who doesn't count.

The recent lore book doubles down on his arrogance and I kind of think its building up to some kind of reveal that he wants the Titan's glory all for himself.

We already fought him twice. I'm not sure what a third fight would bring to the table, aside from having to massively villain bat one of the few remaining characters that is neither a paragon of virtue (much as he thinks otherwise I'm sure) nor a mustache twirling baby eater.

If anything he's kinda like Bwonsamdi; an asshole, but our asshole. Except not as likeable.

[Le Conceptuel]

that is neither a paragon of virtue (much as he thinks otherwise I'm sure) nor a mustache twirling baby eater.

Honestly, I do get that sentiment. It is true that he is one of the more nuanced villains—as cathartic as it would be to put my whole fist in his skull (or, rather, break my hand on the thick metallic alloy that constitutes his head), he is one of the few villains left who actually has a sensible, simple motive. He wants to preserve the order of the Titans, and in this otherwise-benevolent interest he is willing to do terrible things. It makes him more compelling than the Jailer who is achktually playing 7d chess and is simultaneously secretly a super-nuanced character For Sure Guys and a one-dimensional bastard whose surface interest is effectively "lol make death happen" (which could even make for an interesting Satan allegory if the banality of evil were actually at play here). It's nice to have villains with actual motives again, a la Daelin Proudmoore.

[Makabreska]

Honestly, I do get that sentiment. It is true that he is one of the more nuanced villains—as cathartic as it would be to put my whole fist in his skull (or, rather, break my hand on the thick metallic alloy that constitutes his head), he is one of the few villains left who actually has a sensible, simple motive. He wants to preserve the order of the Titans, and in this otherwise-benevolent interest he is willing to do terrible things. It makes him more compelling than the Jailer who is achktually playing 7d chess and is simultaneously secretly a super-nuanced character For Sure Guys and a one-dimensional bastard whose surface interest is effectively "lol make death happen" (which could even make for an interesting Satan allegory if the banality of evil were actually at play here). It's nice to have villains with actual motives again, a la Daelin Proudmoore.

So like, he is 100% confirmed villain now? Those text were very old.

[Jastall]

Honestly, I do get that sentiment. It is true that he is one of the more nuanced villains—as cathartic as it would be to put my whole fist in his skull (or, rather, break my hand on the thick metallic alloy that constitutes his head), he is one of the few villains left who actually has a sensible, simple motive. He wants to preserve the order of the Titans, and in this otherwise-benevolent interest he is willing to do terrible things. It makes him more compelling than the Jailer who is achktually playing 7d chess and is simultaneously secretly a super-nuanced character For Sure Guys and a one-dimensional bastard whose surface interest is effectively "lol make death happen" (which could even make for an interesting Satan allegory if the banality of evil were actually at play here). It's nice to have villains with actual motives again, a la Daelin Proudmoore.

I see him more as dark grey than a villain. He's definitely more bad than good and you could certainly make him go off the deep end ala Kael or Malygos or a hundred others who suddenly decided to genocide all the things so we could beat them up for purples, but I personally don't see the point. For one, you can already smack him in the face in two separate fights. For two, he brings more interesting drama by being an asshole that still has a clean and simple motive than by being a vile villain out to exterminate everyone that doesn't have golden skin and a fire beard because space gods say so. For three, Dragonflight has no lack of potential baddies and thus there's no real need to drag him out as raid boss fodder, especially when you consider the now inevitable timey whimey shenanigans to come with Nozdormu.

[Makabreska]

Ye, Oding seems like a dick towards mortals (and others), especially in those ancient texts. But honestly, pretty much everyone from Team Titan had a more or less "lol mortals, inferior and cursed" approach. We proven to the guy time and time again since Legion, so I really do not think he will come out as villainous, and especially not as a raid boss.

[Le Conceptuel]

I see him more as dark grey than a villain. He's definitely more bad than good and you could certainly make him go off the deep end ala Kael or Malygos or a hundred others who suddenly decided to genocide all the things so we could beat them up for purples, but I personally don't see the point. For one, you can already smack him in the face in two separate fights. For two, he brings more interesting drama by being an asshole that still has a clean and simple motive than by being a vile villain out to exterminate everyone that doesn't have golden skin and a fire beard because space gods say so. For three, Dragonflight has no lack of potential baddies and thus there's no real need to drag him out as raid boss fodder, especially when you consider the now inevitable timey whimey shenanigans to come with Nozdormu.

All a fair point. Regardless of the specifics, my primary point is that I agree that he's a far more nuanced character than most of his peers. I definitely hope he stays around for a bit, bastard he is.

[Ersula]

Ye, Oding seems like a dick towards mortals (and others), especially in those ancient texts. But honestly, pretty much everyone from Team Titan had a more or less "lol mortals, inferior and cursed" approach. We proven to the guy time and time again since Legion, so I really do not think he will come out as villainous, and especially not as a raid boss.

That's why Odyn & Murozond in a time-travel raid, where we go back in time to protect Avaloren from them, showing Odyn the strengths of mortals, would be an appropriate climax to that storyline.

[Makabreska]

That's why Odyn & Murozond in a time-travel raid, where we go back in time to protect Avaloren from them, showing Odyn the strengths of mortals, would be an appropriate climax to that storyline.

We already shown it to Odin in Legion, when we defeated him and Helya. Why should we do it again? Even if it's time travel, it is tiresome to prove ourselves over and over again.

[Auxis]

I mean, he is literally called Arthas. Doesn't get much more obvious he is partially inspired by Arthur.

And yes, Arthurian legend is very much referenced constantly, but the idea is quite clearly a dark reverse take, where the golden prince of a prosperous kingdom leads it to ruin, rather than a commoner leading his fallow kingdom to glory.

And his mentor is Uther. Arthur's father is Uther.

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We already shown it to Odin in Legion, when we defeated him and Helya. Why should we do it again? Even if it's time travel, it is tiresome to prove ourselves over and over again.

Then that would open a paradox, wouldn't it? Odyn wanted to test us in Legion.
We go back in time to.. post Sundering? Avaloren to prove to him that mortals are worthy. Either we get something from Odyn to do something in the present and allow the Bronze Flight to wipe their memories of the event, or.. IDK what else they could do. They'd have to wipe his memory or write him into a corner where he wanted to prove our worth again in Legion.

[Jastall]

That's why Odyn & Murozond in a time-travel raid, where we go back in time to protect Avaloren from them, showing Odyn the strengths of mortals, would be an appropriate climax to that storyline.

That wouldn't make much sense. Odyn wants us to prove ourselves (over and over) during Legion. That's when we show him the strength of mortals.

Gameplay wise it would also be the third time we fight him in an instance without killing him. Pretty stale if you ask me.

[Cheezits]

That is actually a fantastic question...
I don't think the ships Moores there are even used for any questlines anymore, so it shouldn't be a conflict with any of those.

They said there would be a new Stormwind dock, and it didn't happen. There is a brand new Alliance Airship model and tower model that weren't used, while Horde got their tower and revised airship. Also a brand new Night Elf ship that would make sense to be there, but isn't in Dragonflight (AFAIK)

So its pretty clear the Stormwind revisions got cancelled. However I think this is because it would have to be in the city: the Horde airship is just outside, but there is no place they could put a Stormwind version that would make sense.

I think they just postponed the tower and airship until Stormwind is revamped. Or they realized it wouldn't be fair if they didn't update Orgrimmar in some way, so they scrapped both ideas and just put the Horde tower outside of the city.

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That wouldn't make much sense. Odyn wants us to prove ourselves (over and over) during Legion. That's when we show him the strength of mortals.

Gameplay wise it would also be the third time we fight him in an instance without killing him. Pretty stale if you ask me.

It would be kind of poetic if we fight him a third time and we actually do kill him. Similarly to how Murozond can't die anywhere but Cata outside of some really weird shit happening.