Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Raetary]

People get REALLY heated about the Order terminology and it's odd. Did you ever consider that it may have been changed to be the normal use of the word so that lore casuals know what it is?

The lore casuals know what it is, it's impossible not to.

"Arcane" has been the magic label for warcraft since its inception, and has always been closely tied to the Pantheon.
And since they revamped their cosmology, even more so.

Suddenly trying to shove in a brand new label is what makes it confusing, jarring and incosistent.

The "lore casuals" may be casuals, but i certainly doubt they are so stupid as to not be able to connect 2 dots together and recognize that the word "Arcane" and "Order" belong to the same thing.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Pretty sure all the dragons have the potential to be casters (not just the blue) and Deathwing liberally used charm magic in his Visage form as Daval Prestor

Is there any thing to actually back that up? The blues use arcane and the greens use nature but I can’t think of the reds blacks or bronze ever using any thing beyond there flight powers.

[Makorus]

It's because calling certain type of magic and concepts "Order" is easier than trying to make people forget their former association of "Arcane", which is that of an Arcane Mage.

Arcane was ALWAYS associated with the basis of Magic, unaspected and pure.

Calling it Order Magic places a distinction on whether you refer to the Cosmic force, or "basic" Arcane Magic.

[Berkilak]

Lore casuals would have heard arcane numinous times through out there time playing wow but never once heard of order unless they looked into chronicles.

This change is the opposite of making it for lore casuals.

I just checked with a lore casual who I wrangled back into the game for Dragonflight. Yes, he has heard of Arcane magic. No, he had no idea that it had anything to do with "order" as a concept. Referring to it as Order magic rather than Arcane magic helped him to understand the specifics of what that artifact was doing.

But honestly, they could have just said "magic" or "power" and spared us this whole discussion.

[Nymrohd]

Is there any thing to actually back that up? The blues use arcane and the greens use nature but I can’t think of the reds blacks or bronze ever using any thing beyond there flight powers.

I mean one of the reds sat at the Council of Six for forever.

[Ersula]

"Arcane" has been the magic label for warcraft since its inception, and has always been closely tied to the Pantheon.
And since they revamped their cosmology, even more so.

But the linked Portergage tweet above describes Azeroth's leylines being elemental in nature, and Tyrhold was used to "convert" that elemental nature to "order magic" and what magic type are Azeroth's leylines in Legion? Arcane

[Raetary]

But the linked Portergage tweet above describes Azeroth's leylines being elemental in nature, and Tyrhold was used to "convert" that elemental nature to "order magic" and what magic type are Azeroth's leylines in Legion? Arcane

Ok, what does that have to do with what we are discussing?

[8bithamster]

the nozdormu we quest with isnt moruzond
the one in the shorts is
say it with me
TIME
TRAVEL

Please provide evidence.. say it with me

EVIDENCE

[Ersula]

Ok, what does that have to do with what we are discussing?

That Arcane is synonymous with Order magic. If what you stated were true the Order Magic would simply be making things inert, which is clearly not the case.

[Berkilak]

That Arcane is synonymous with Order magic. If what you stated were true the Order Magic would simply be making things inert, which is clearly not the case.

We understand that because we're huge nerds that care about cosmology charts.

Casual fans might be aware of the Titans, but they don't think of "order" as a force at all, let alone one associated with Arcane. That isn't made clear in-game at all.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I mean one of the reds sat at the Council of Six for forever.

Before the 3rd war the council members were secret, we have no way of knowing how they got the roll or even if they need to show great arcane power to get the job or if a dragon could fake it or even take some one else’s place with there visage.

So that really isn’t evidence that they can become casters beyond there flight powers.

[Nymrohd]

Before the 3rd war the council members were secret, we have no way of knowing how they got the roll or even if they need to show great arcane power to get the job or if a dragon could fake it or even take some one else’s place with there visage.

So that really isn’t evidence that they can become casters beyond there flight powers.

Krasus taught Rhonin the arcane, he was recognized as an archmage.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Krasus taught Rhonin the arcane, he was recognized as an archmage.

I haven’t read this book so the wiki could be wrong given how unreliable it is but the first mention of Krasus on Rhonins page is about them teaming up for a mission not any teaching.

Rhonin didn't grow up in a mage family. A rift appeared between him and his kin when he decided to enter the ranks of wizardry, not ever seeing any of them again after acting on his chosen calling.[5]

As a student of magic, Rhonin's nose was once broken by a fellow apprentice.[6] Rhonin decided by his own choice to not get it properly fixed by magic.[5]

Second War


Rhonin was once a promising mage of the Kirin Tor until a disastrous mission involving the reckless use of magic during the Second War — whilst Rhonin was casting a spell, others in his group got in the path of his attack. Rhonin's action succeeded in preventing a band of orc warlocks from raising a demon from the dead, but it also cost the lives of all his comrades. Rhonin was cast into probation until the opportunity for penance arose with a dangerous mission into Khaz Modan. He was assisted in this mission by the high elven ranger Vereesa Windrunner, the warrior dwarf Falstad Dragonreaver, and the dragon-mage Krasus (who was the instigator of this mission).

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Rhonin#cite_note-6

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I find it hard to believe that Krasus didn't use Magic as he was on the council of Six. It wasn't said but that doesn't mean he couldn't. Its like saying well if its not documented it doesn't exist.

[Nymrohd]

I mean he is called a Dragon Mage, he fought together with the Council in Visage form as a mage and no one there knew he was a dragon, he used divination and scrying, he could even assist with time magic, he gave shape to the Sunwell into the form of Anveena. I mean he was a caster.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I find it hard to believe that Krasus didn't use Magic as he was on the council of Six. It wasn't said but that doesn't mean he couldn't. Its like saying well if its not documented it doesn't exist.

The question isn’t really rather he used magic it’s rather he used arcane magic or could get by with the flight magic.

The blues/greens we know use arcane/nature but the blacks have there own magic and don’t use the elements, same with the bronze and time magic and presumably the reds and what ever they focus in. Rather a dragon can just pick up a magic school and go beyond what they were made for is the dubious count.

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I mean he is called a Dragon Mage, he fought together with the Council in Visage form as a mage and no one there knew he was a dragon, he used divination and scrying, he could even assist with time magic, he gave shape to the Sunwell into the form of Anveena. I mean he was a caster.

See these are better examples just being on a secret council or even fighting with mages doesn’t really display that he’s using arcane and not say just doing What dracthyr do with there red powers but stuff like scrying time magic ect is outside of the reds wheel house.

[Jaggler]

Why would a Dragon, one of the wisest and oldest races on Azeroth NOT be able to become a mage? There is literally nothing that would prevent them from doing that.

[Ersula]

Why would a Dragon, one of the wisest and oldest races on Azeroth NOT become a mage? There is literally nothing that would prevent them from doing that.

Because Evoker is like Mage, but better. No need to channel frost & fire when you can spit/fart/poop it directly from your body

[Cheezits]

So in Dragonflight questing, there is a small questline about there being "something" underground that is able to mind control draconic creatures.

Did someone restart Neltharion's work on the command artifact, or did Neltharion himself restart work on it as Deathwing? If he could somehow reach the Isles from Deepholm...

Also, if Neltharion used a void portal to suck Razsageth away, and Razsageth is in a vault on the Forgotten Reach... does that mean that the Forgotten Reach has a void portal in it?

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Because Evoker is like Mage, but better. No need to channel frost & fire when you can spit/fart/poop it directly from your body

Dragons besides Neltharion did not know Evokers existed until two days ago in lore. And we still don't know how he made them.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Why would a Dragon, one of the wisest and oldest races on Azeroth NOT become a mage? There is literally nothing that would prevent them from doing that.

Same reason many class restrictions existed some races just aren’t made for X power and dragons could be the same which is why they rarely go beyond there flight powers.

As the lore moves forward and things get retconned these restrictions go away which is why I asked if they could always do so or if it was new.