1. #70101
    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    inb4 the twist is that there never was Nozdormu. Like Neltharion he was corrupted even before they were turned from proto dragons and has just been holding up a facade all this time.
    I would prefer if both Neltharion and Nozdormu went insane after the Old Gods showed them what the Titans did to the Dragons to begin with. A sort of lie by omission on the Titan Keepers behalf that the Old Gods would make them insane, leaving out the part where the truth they were shown was the involvement of the Titans.

    Them holding up the facade isnt really all that satisfying. It takes all the pathos out of Neltharion turning into Deathwing and being killed, or Nozdormu being good until he decided to just torch it all.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  2. #70102
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    I would prefer if both Neltharion and Nozdormu went insane after the Old Gods showed them what the Titans did to the Dragons to begin with. A sort of lie by omission on the Titan Keepers behalf that the Old Gods would make them insane, leaving out the part where the truth they were shown was the involvement of the Titans.

    Them holding up the facade isnt really all that satisfying. It takes all the pathos out of Neltharion turning into Deathwing and being killed, or Nozdormu being good until he decided to just torch it all.
    I think Deathwing being driven insane by the Old Gods literally sitting in the earth he has a connection to is fitting.

    maybe that's what Nozdormu want to discover/confirm in the Legacies shorts: The reason the primalists fight and what the Titans did to them (the dragons).

  3. #70103
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaggler View Post
    I think Deathwing being driven insane by the Old Gods literally sitting in the earth he has a connection to is fitting.

    maybe that's what Nozdormu want to discover/confirm in the Legacies shorts: The reason the primalists fight and what the Titans did to them (the dragons).
    I guess we will find out today with the last Legacies short.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  4. #70104
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    We are definitely going to see him this expansion. Time travel or is he secretly alive?

    I had a thought that if Avaloren is Light-based, he might be in stasis there or secretly working with them.

  5. #70105
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    I'm not sure that's actually a sensible request. We have no evidence they're actually clearly distinct phases of his life, rather than, say, a gradual shift.
    So yea.. all the theorycrafters saying "Bruh this is Murozond! Not nozdormu" have absolutely 0 basis to go on except "just trust me bro"

  6. #70106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Here is the thing. It took an entire titan facility and significant effort for Tyr to convert the Wellspring into Arcane over Elemental and it still is a fairly unstable process given that the Primalists can reverse it.
    WTF then happened to allow for the Well of Eternity to be transmuted from presumably Elemental into Arcane? The Well is the largest wound on Azeroth, bleeding her lifeblood. Would that mean the keepers build a massive facility (at a much larger scale than Uldorus) at the bottom of the well to do this?
    It could be that titans are mutable and adapt to what ever power is the most present at the time and the wells stay once made even if Azeroth changes.

    So the elements were the only ones around making an elemental well, the titans then show up putting the balance in arcanes favour, then by the time of BFA all the forces are in balance leading to azerite being something new.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  7. #70107
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    It could be that titans are mutable and adapt to what ever power is the most present at the time and the wells stay once made even if Azeroth changes.

    So the elements were the only ones around making an elemental well, the titans then show up putting the balance in arcanes favour, then by the time of BFA all the forces are in balance leading to azerite being something new.
    Is there any reason, at this point in time, to not assume Titans are made the same way as Eternal Ones: The First Ones used a Zereth to build their bodies & shoved a world-soul inside them? I don't think there is. (You wanting Shadowlands to be non-canon isn't a good enough reason)

  8. #70108
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    Is there any reason, at this point in time, to not assume Titans are made the same way as Eternal Ones: The First Ones used a Zereth to build their bodies & shoved a world-soul inside them? I don't think there is. (You wanting Shadowlands to be non-canon isn't a good enough reason)
    Because Argus and Azeroth exist. Unless the First Ones can create Titans and then beam them into the core of planets, World Souls don't make sense to be First One Pantheon Constructs.

    All we know is that the Titans found Zereth Ordos.

  9. #70109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    Because Argus and Azeroth exist. Unless the First Ones can create Titans and then beam them into the core of planets, World Souls don't make sense to be First One Pantheon Constructs.

    All we know is that the Titans found Zereth Ordos.
    Ah, I would love to see Marvel Eternals happen when the planet becomes strong enough to awaken the Titan inside! Shadowlands Infinity War wasn’t good enough! Give me more Marvel!

  10. #70110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catastrophy349 View Post
    Ah, I would love to see Marvel Eternals happen when the planet becomes strong enough to awaken the Titan inside! Shadowlands Infinity War wasn’t good enough! Give me more Marvel!
    And what's wrong with marvel? It's the most succesful movie franchise out there lol.

  11. #70111
    Quote Originally Posted by Catastrophy349 View Post
    Ah, I would love to see Marvel Eternals happen when the planet becomes strong enough to awaken the Titan inside! Shadowlands Infinity War wasn’t good enough! Give me more Marvel!
    LOL, the Titan plot was going on for a decade + before Eternals came out...

  12. #70112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    LOL, the Titan plot was going on for a decade + before Eternals came out...
    It’s very clear that you took my comment seriously when it wasn’t meant to be.

  13. #70113
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    Because Argus and Azeroth exist. Unless the First Ones can create Titans and then beam them into the core of planets, World Souls don't make sense to be First One Pantheon Constructs.
    What are you talking about?

    1.) Nowhere does it say Azeroth is a titan already. She is just a world soul. All we know is that the Titans clearly wanted her to become a Titan IE: Stick her world soul in a body made at Zereth Ordus in all likelyhood.

    2.) There's noting to contradict the same thing didn't happen to Argus: The planet didn't have a core when we see it, it's a shell. It's described as had been sundered the same way Sargeras intended to do to Azeroth. Either the corruption of Argus happened after the First Ones made him a body or Sargeras himself knew how to make him one.

  14. #70114
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    LOL, the Titan plot was going on for a decade + before Eternals came out...
    It's almost as if you didn't know about comic books.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
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    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  15. #70115
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    What are you talking about?

    1.) Nowhere does it say Azeroth is a titan already. She is just a world soul. All we know is that the Titans clearly wanted her to become a Titan IE: Stick her world soul in a body made at Zereth Ordus in all likelyhood.

    2.) There's noting to contradict the same thing didn't happen to Argus: The planet didn't have a core when we see it, it's a shell. It's described as had been sundered the same way Sargeras intended to do to Azeroth. Either the corruption of Argus happened after the First Ones made him a body or Sargeras himself knew how to make him one.
    Titans are World Souls that hatch from worlds, UNLESS that is a lie. However, we have seen how First One Pantheon Constructs (FOPC from here on out) are made: they have a construct body + a magic soul that they obtain from somewhere (these are the things in the big orbs we find during the Arbiter questline) that fuse to become an entity.

    If Titans are FOPCs, why do they need to incubate in a world? And why did Argus's soul turn into a realized form when he beamed into the Seat of the Pantheon, without use of any kind of robot construct? Because he isn't an FOPC.

  16. #70116
    So, any prediction on what the last animated short will contain?

    My guess is a reveal on the Titan Keepers being the cause in some way of the conflict with the Primals, and that Nozdormu will be taken aback by this revelation.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  17. #70117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    Is there any reason, at this point in time, to not assume Titans are made the same way as Eternal Ones: The First Ones used a Zereth to build their bodies & shoved a world-soul inside them? I don't think there is. (You wanting Shadowlands to be non-canon isn't a good enough reason)
    There’s no way to know how it works or if it’s the same way as shadowlands.

    The externals were souls from ??? Put into robot body’s, the titans could be souls from ??? Put into planets and then left to evolve beyond that or they could be planet souls that went to the zerith and were then given body’s or Mabye the planet and the soul was made in the Zerith and then shot out into the great dark waiting to wake up.

    It’s all guess work until we get more info and find out rather chronicles origin is a full retcon or a partially retcon.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  18. #70118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    So, any prediction on what the last animated short will contain?

    My guess is a reveal on the Titan Keepers being the cause in some way of the conflict with the Primals, and that Nozdormu will be taken aback by this revelation.
    I think just backstory for Dracthyrs and first tier villain.

  19. #70119
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    I think just backstory for Dracthyrs and first tier villain.
    I suppose that is the boring, but realistic answer. Just a simple showing of the Dracthyr fighting the Primals and then being sealed after Neltharion asys something cryptic about them being needed at some other conflict.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  20. #70120
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    Titans are World Souls that hatch from worlds, UNLESS that is a lie. However, we have seen how First One Pantheon Constructs (FOPC from here on out) are made: they have a construct body + a magic soul that they obtain from somewhere (these are the things in the big orbs we find during the Arbiter questline) that fuse to become an entity.

    If Titans are FOPCs, why do they need to incubate in a world? And why did Argus's soul turn into a realized form when he beamed into the Seat of the Pantheon, without use of any kind of robot construct? Because he isn't an FOPC.
    • You're suggesting that Argus appearing in front of us as players in Antorus, was when he was literally being 'born' rather than some point in the last million years. It's not. Why would you assume that? Given what we know about Shadowlands, corrupting Argus was probably the beginning point of the Jailer's millennia-spanning plan.
    • The Sepulcher is designed to use world souls. The Jailer didn't remodel the Sepulcher to extract Azeroth's world soul; it does that by the first ones' design. That's how they made the Eternal Ones. Clearly, Titans are not the only thing that use World Souls.
    • "we have seen how First One Pantheon Constructs (FOPC from here on out) are made: they have a construct body + a magic soul that they obtain from somewhere (these are the things in the big orbs we find during the Arbiter questline) that fuse to become an entity." Okay, now use your brain: What did we also find there? In that exact same spot where they got the Eternal One's souls? In the climax of the Zereth Mortis campaign? ARGUS, The Titan of Death

    The First Ones build bodies for World Souls: Their identifier is just what their job is: Eternal Ones are in charge of the Shadowlands; the Titans are in charge of the material plane.
    Last edited by Ersula; 2022-11-08 at 04:11 PM.

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