1. #70581
    Dreadlord Berkilak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    DF starts with a new, completely unrelated story that has nothing to do with what you were doing before. They come out of nowhere with a "random" quest because this is the first your character is even getting involved in the whole thing.
    Not to mention a three year timeskip, post-SL.

  2. #70582
    I think the expansions can roughly be grouped into trilogies, with Cataclysm and Legion being deemed as a sort of 2.0 and 3.0 respectively given the larger gameplay and class overhauls they brought with them. Playing Wrath Classic reminded just how much did end up changing with Cata and how much of vanilla was still baked into Wrath. I think Dragonflight will continue this given the talent, profession, and gameplay flow design (shifting away from Legion's borrowed power/chore focus), but it's too early to say.

    The frustrating part of Cata's revamp is that it was both inconsistent, and has dated itself. You have zones that were virtually untouched outside of some QoL changes for the quests there, zones that were completely revamped in geography, questing and story, zones that only had one of those change, etc. The human zones are a perfect example of this:

    Elwynn is practically identical to its vanilla version outside of Northshire swapping kobolds and Defias for orcs. The zone hasn't moved forward at all.
    Westfall is largely revamped and carries on the aftermath of the vanilla story, only a few of the older quests that are just generic kill quests remain.
    Redridge tells the same story as the vanilla version with different quests, just with the developers copy-pasting Rambo lines in nonstop. The zone hasn't actually advanced; they rebuilt the bridge, but the same NPCs are in the same places causing the same problems.
    Duskwood is an uneven mix; the quests are cleaned up with some new ones, some storylines have advanced, some haven't. It's jarring.

    That's not getting into zones like the Barrens or Badlands where they date themselves to immediately after the Cataclysm and just age worse and worse. I'm on the side that I don't think they have the resources or intent to redo the leveling experience once again, but it'd be nice to see a longer term, more comprehensive revamp that would include endgame content as well.

  3. #70583
    Quote Originally Posted by Murlocos View Post
    I'm on the side that I don't think they have the resources or intent to redo the leveling experience once again, but it'd be nice to see a longer term, more comprehensive revamp that would include endgame content as well.
    The thing is, the old world is not the leveling experience. The intent right now seems to be to send people to BfA. Which imo is an amazing choice; BfA had solid zones and decent world building (Zandalar could have been better but Kul Tiras feels like the most organic kingdom in wow with multiple families and towns, a proper capital and only real issue being the side quests in Stormsong).

    I'd say that if they redid the old world it should be to add it as evergreen content and a place for continuous storytelling.

  4. #70584
    Mandatory BFA leveling for new players is going to have to be replaced eventually as the war and timeline do not fit the new era. That's one of the reasons I think that we are getting a new leveling campaign sometime soon.

    You can make a revamp with max level content AND new leveling campaign.
    Last edited by Cheezits; 2022-11-07 at 04:38 PM.

  5. #70585
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    Mandatory BFA leveling for new players is going to have to be replaced eventually as the war and timeline do not fit the new era. That's one of the reasons I think that we are getting a new leveling campaign sometime soon.

    You can make a revamp with max level content AND new leveling campaign.
    Dragon Isles will work just fine tbh as soon as the next expac rolls in. The Isles are massive, have a crazy amount of side quests and with world quests and Renown activities unlocked while leveling it will be a pretty solid leveling experience.

  6. #70586
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    The thing is, the old world is not the leveling experience. The intent right now seems to be to send people to BfA. Which imo is an amazing choice; BfA had solid zones and decent world building (Zandalar could have been better but Kul Tiras feels like the most organic kingdom in wow with multiple families and towns, a proper capital and only real issue being the side quests in Stormsong).

    I'd say that if they redid the old world it should be to add it as evergreen content and a place for continuous storytelling.
    If they remake levelling it should be to give a good foundation for racial storylines, as well as give some more insight into the basics of the different forces on Azeroth.
    Forsaken learning about Arthas, Sylvanas, the Shadowlands, etc.
    Draenei learning about the escape from Argus, the Burning Legion, etc.

    The BfA zones are great as a source of easy to understand quests, but doesn't really give any insight into the Alliance and Horde, nor any of the races outside Kul Tirans and Zandalari.

    This shouldn't require all the zones to be used, and redoing the zones should allow for the foundation of reusing the zones later without too much issue.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  7. #70587
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    Mandatory BFA leveling for new players is going to have to be replaced eventually as the war and timeline do not fit the new era. .
    1.) New players only have to do the Zandalar intro questline. If you have the wherewithal to use the portal back to Org you can do any Chromie Time era you want on your first character. New players are only segwayed into BFA automatically after Exiles' Reach.
    2.)Why does the new era matter to leveling? Before Chromie Time you were never starting a new character in the "current" timeline. Even during Cataclysm you had to time-travel back to BC & Wotlk in order to get back into the Cataclysm era.

    I think expressing the current era of Azeroth is important, but creating a new 1-60 really shouldn't be a priority. It would be a giant waste of time since they already spent a lot of time designing Chromie Time to be Evergreen during Shadowlands.
    Last edited by Ersula; 2022-11-07 at 04:52 PM.

  8. #70588
    Bloodsail Admiral Foreign Exchange Ztudent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    -Drac'thyr Tinkerer meme-

    I hear some jimmies rustling in the distance.
    The fact that they keep doing this repeatedly.. They really do enjoy pissing off their detractors.
    I no longer reply to quotations beyond if you're asking a genuine question or have a non-confrontational stance.

    Nihil.


  9. #70589
    The Lightbringer Lady Atia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Dragon Isles will work just fine tbh as soon as the next expac rolls in. The Isles are massive, have a crazy amount of side quests and with world quests and Renown activities unlocked while leveling it will be a pretty solid leveling experience.
    Yeah but the isles are designed with dragonriding in mind, and it would feel weird to either get it with level 15 or not being able to continue the main campaign because you can't "fly" yet.

    #TEAMGIRAFFE

  10. #70590
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Dragon Isles will work just fine tbh as soon as the next expac rolls in. The Isles are massive, have a crazy amount of side quests and with world quests and Renown activities unlocked while leveling it will be a pretty solid leveling experience.
    True enough, and the Exiles Reach characters being featured DO point towards it being the new starter island.

    I do think that by that point the cities will be updated graphically. Also the cinematic that plays after, which is BFA themed.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Foreign Exchange Ztudent View Post
    The fact that they keep doing this repeatedly.. They really do enjoy pissing off their detractors.
    Not really. The Worgen tails thing is a bit tone-deaf but they shouldn't feel the need to not include Warcraft things in the world just because they aren't playable.

  11. #70591
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    True enough, and the Exiles Reach characters being featured DO point towards it being the new starter island.
    If by that you mean Dragonflight becoming a Chromie Time era in 11.0, then yes.

  12. #70592
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    If they remake levelling it should be to give a good foundation for racial storylines, as well as give some more insight into the basics of the different forces on Azeroth.
    Forsaken learning about Arthas, Sylvanas, the Shadowlands, etc.
    Draenei learning about the escape from Argus, the Burning Legion, etc.

    The BfA zones are great as a source of easy to understand quests, but doesn't really give any insight into the Alliance and Horde, nor any of the races outside Kul Tirans and Zandalari.

    This shouldn't require all the zones to be used, and redoing the zones should allow for the foundation of reusing the zones later without too much issue.
    One idea I've seen floated around here in the past speculation cycle was that they could really just squish some zones together. If they made larger zones which had a central campaign storyline, the sidestories could be added along the way instead of being available for launch. Alternatively a lot of empty space could be used for evergreen content outside the main zone storyline. One thing I keep suggesting is rebuilding events; utilize regional progression tech from IQD, Isle of Thunder and Broken Shore together with Garrison building to let us slowly build towns and unlock multiple events. This could slowly expand across the map to multiple zones. Dragonflight is actually a great test run for such content; events like the Dragon Hunts, activities like those offered by the Expedition combined with expanding upon professions (vanilla still has the most profession content and it could be "Remastered") could give you a blueprint to what the new world could offer past leveling.

  13. #70593
    Quote Originally Posted by Foreign Exchange Ztudent View Post
    The fact that they keep doing this repeatedly.. They really do enjoy pissing off their detractors.
    At least they acknowledge it, and it they are trolling it's a sign they know players want it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    One idea I've seen floated around here in the past speculation cycle was that they could really just squish some zones together. If they made larger zones which had a central campaign storyline, the sidestories could be added along the way instead of being available for launch. Alternatively a lot of empty space could be used for evergreen content outside the main zone storyline. One thing I keep suggesting is rebuilding events; utilize regional progression tech from IQD, Isle of Thunder and Broken Shore together with Garrison building to let us slowly build towns and unlock multiple events. This could slowly expand across the map to multiple zones. Dragonflight is actually a great test run for such content; events like the Dragon Hunts, activities like those offered by the Expedition combined with expanding upon professions (vanilla still has the most profession content and it could be "Remastered") could give you a blueprint to what the new world could offer past leveling.
    Yes, i was the one that suggested it.
    Find zones close together and with a decent amount of similarity and treat them as one big zone in terms of storylines and endgame questing.
    A version of this was taking all the Dwarf zones, and make one big storyline explaining the Dwarves, leading into the hinted at Dark Iron Rebellion plotline from BfA.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  14. #70594
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    At least they acknowledge it, and it they are trolling it's a sign they know players want it.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Yes, i was the one that suggested it.
    Find zones close together and with a decent amount of similarity and treat them as one big zone in terms of storylines and endgame questing.
    A version of this was taking all the Dwarf zones, and make one big storyline explaining the Dwarves, leading into the hinted at Dark Iron Rebellion plotline from BfA.
    You really could have Khaz Modan as a zone (Wetlands+Dun Morogh+Loch Modan), then Blackrock Mountain (Burning Steppes+Searing Gorge plus some underground areas), then combine Twilight Highlands with Badlands and use the coastal areas for a third zone. It would allow them to have a far more natural geography (the geography of vanilla is HORRID with all the forced zone separation). I think you would on average be combinining 2,5 zones per new zone which significantly cuts down on the questing needed and I feel that quests are much more time consuming to them than level design is.

  15. #70595
    10.1 ToT time walking raid

    I need hope since they seemingly skipped it and the raid is actually amazing with enough OP items and an extremely rare MOG item

  16. #70596
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    If by that you mean Dragonflight becoming a Chromie Time era in 11.0, then yes.
    No, they mean as the new default level up area after Exile's Reach. Which does make sense, since DF is a completely seperate story to what we had before, making it an excellent starting point.

  17. #70597
    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Man View Post
    10.1 ToT time walking raid

    I need hope since they seemingly skipped it and the raid is actually amazing with enough OP items and an extremely rare MOG item
    My hopes and dreams is that they stopped doing Time walking dungeons because they knew they would eventually use the Fated raid system to spice up the latter parts of the PvE seasons.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  18. #70598
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    My hopes and dreams is that they stopped doing Time walking dungeons because they knew they would eventually use the Fated raid system to spice up the latter parts of the PvE seasons.
    I think they mostly stopped because they're out of old expansions to use. We'll probably get BfA in DF.

  19. #70599
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    I think they mostly stopped because they're out of old expansions to use. We'll probably get BfA in DF.
    Also a good point.

    I wonder whether they will have something similar to the Mage Tower in Legion Time walking for players to gain unique rewards from. A max level version of the HC warfronts for the unused armor tints would be nice.

    Really I just want the unused warfront armor tints.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I guess Timewalking has hit upon a snag now that older dungeons will always be a part of the seasonal M+ rotation, or at least the ones from MoP and beyond.

    Without a specific draw like what Legion had with M+ Timewalking and the Mage Tower I feel like they will end up kinda pointless.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  20. #70600
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    If by that you mean Dragonflight becoming a Chromie Time era in 11.0, then yes.
    No, Dragonflight replacing BfA as the "new player expansion".

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