Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Jaggler]

Raids and dungeons are not feature, they are core gameplay. Other things you mentioned, sure some of them makes sense, but they are all at least modified in mext expansions. How would you modify allied race, when they are already a twist on normal races.

TBH I don't think allied races are off the table completely, but as I said some ppl tend to get too exctited about them.

You yourself called m+ a feature. And of course stuff gets iterated upon. I just wanted to point out, that it is not rare for systems to get carried onwards.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

I mean, isn't that exactly what we saw in 9.0? She is so convinced by the misrepresentations of the SL the Jailer fed her, that "we can make everything better, if only we were in charge", and believes that she only has to explain this to Anduin to convince him to join the Jailer's side.
But Anduin's obvious answers tear holes in that view, and she begins to question herself.

What I was suggesting is solidly distinct from this—the idea that the system is somehow flawed is vindicated in the storyline, and Sylvanas' actions are also nominally mitigated by the Jailer's manipulations. In addition to the latter serving as a moral cop-out that doesn't provide the diminished responsibility the writers seem to think it does and the former effectively precluding the situation I suggested earlier, her actions are never strictly presented in the light that she is legitimately chasing an undesirable outcome for selfish reasons, only that she was misled by a malevolent second actor.

In the situation i described, Sylvanas' story would do away with her being misled in any capacity—with full knowledge of the weight of her actions and the nature of the afterlife, she would try to fundamentally alter the system in a manner which may appear immediately beneficent but in actuality would reveal itself to be undesirable because a stupid little meat brain floating in a tiny humanoid skull doesn't have the processing power to rewrite a universe effectually nor the maturity to not make terrible, stupid, individualistic decisions in doing so. The central theme of her character is (projected as) more tragedy than hubris in the story we were given—this is most profoundly hammered in by the fact that she's not totally wrong. Bastion is the most ludicrous example of this because it is portrayed as narrow-minded and effectively self-destructive for its practices and eventually reforms precisely because a meat-brained humanoid showed up and made a point, vindicating Sylvanas' belief in the right of said meat-brained humanoids to rewrite reality and limiting any villainous nature to the evuhl mastermind she serves rather than her hubris in itself. Revendreth is arguably the single most functional in its intended purpose, which is pretty telling given that it's the only one run by someone who is actively and intentionally malicious.

Ideally, the leaders of the afterlives shouldn't have been fallible—they should have been strange, alien beings that nevertheless possess a traditional understanding of morality. Bastion shouldn't have had the stupid memory gimmick, and the functions of the afterlife should've been threatening to Sylvanas for the reasons they always were—that Sylvie did terrible things and was surprised when she actually went to hell for them. Instead of reframing her plight to make her more sympathetic, Sylvanas' motive could have been more interesting if it simply stayed the same and she raged against the heavens for effectively making the right call with her.

I think this would make a better story because this is the perspective that people often adopt when their hubris starts to bloat—sometimes, people will decide it's actually the infallible power or structure of the universe that is wrong and they're the ones who are right. It would have been a fun commentary on how fundamentally stupid it is that some people legitimately think their little meat brains in stupid humanoid skulls which are subject to things like subjectivity and emotional distortion know best and kind of joss that whole "individual always good and right" narrative that tends to exist in modern fiction.

[Zulggun]

You yourself called m+ a feature. And of course stuff gets iterated upon. I just wanted to point out, that it is not rare for systems to get carried onwards.

I wasn't the one who brought up m+ in the first place, I even said that it's not really the best comparision.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

Tuskarr, Furbolg, Drakonid */s*

TBH I mean it is a good way to keep engagement high. I doubt it, they're not really going to spend resources anytime soon.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

I know right. How dare he do his job as Lord Commander effectively.

A monster, truly.

[loras]

Hardly so. It's a summary and it's quite sarcastic, but I don't think it's the best. I've hard far better.

Perhaps the best short-form sarcastic summary then?
And if not: Please do share.

[Nathanyel]

TBH Covenant AR would make very little sense. I don't see, why a Venthyr or Kyrian would joing Horde o Alliance.

True, true... but what about a member of the Horde becoming a Venthyr?

Alas, I fear the window for that has passed.

With the Veil mended, travel between th Shadowlands and Azeroth also wouldn't be as easy as it once was.

The Maw Walker would of course still be able to, at least with the help of the Kyrian.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Katrina Prestor, Onyxia is all the reason to be at least a bit "skeptical" from the POV of the regular Human in Stormwind. They don't have our insight that obviously the Drac'thyr aren't the enemy coming here.

[Cheezits]

I think they aren't going to touch SL for a little while because people are still mad about it in general, but the cov races are too busy to come to Azeroth anyway.

Tuskarr are more likely than ever because they have pretty simple bodies that can wear armor and they just added female models (not a requirement ofc but is a good hint they could be playable). Drakonid could happen, Gnoll unfortunately are too weirdly angled to be likely playable IMO. Their bodies are messed up (purposefully) and probably would have to get barber shop armor.

But I would bet a lot on Tuskarr. The Dwarf variant that has "mutated" is likely, and I think the stone sethrak are building up to a new Sethrak faction.

[Zulggun]

Can't wait for ppl complaining about another race with ugly women, if they add tuskarr. Also, imagine amount of clipping on the fangs.

[Nymrohd]

Katrina Prestor, Onyxia is all the reason to be at least a bit "skeptical" from the POV of the regular Human in Stormwind. They don't have our insight that obviously the Drac'thyr aren't the enemy coming here.

Also let's remember that the Sundered Flame is out there and their intentions are at the very least not friendly.

[Cheezits]

Can't wait for ppl complaining about another race with ugly women, if they add tuskarr. Also, imagine amount of clipping on the fangs.

It's an old race, people will go googoogaga over it just because it's from Wrath.

[Jaggler]

True, true... but what about a member of the Horde becoming a Venthyr?



Alas, I fear the window for that has passed.

Of course a possibility, but considering, becoming a venthyr takes a considerable amount of time and you know, dying, i would considere them more of a part of the shadowlands at that point.

The Maw Walker would of course still be able to, at least with the help of the Kyrian.

Of course, but I would assume that's not something that is done without a very explicit purpose and not something that's achieved easily.

I just think that it is way better for the Shadowlands and Azeroth, if we don't pull the SL races into the factions. It just doesn't... fit. While i thought it could be interesting at the start of the expansion mayself, i just don't see the appeal anymore. it just take too much explanation and isn't as natural as f.e. Nightborne, Vulpera or Mag'har.

[Cheezits]

I just think that it is way better for the Shadowlands and Azeroth, if we don't pull the SL races into the factions. It just doesn't... fit. While i thought it could be interesting at the start of the expansion mayself, i just don't see the appeal anymore. it just take too much explanation and isn't as natural as f.e. Nightborne, Vulpera or Mag'har.

I would not say Iron Horde Mag'har is a natural fit, I like them but it took a very creative and controversial story beat for them to appear. I'd like something creative like that if the Shadowlands races ever became playable (like for Venthyr, maybe related to chasing down the Nathrezim?)

[BaumanKing]

Can't wait for ppl complaining about another race with ugly women, if they add tuskarr. Also, imagine amount of clipping on the fangs.

All women are beautiful. If these people don't like tuskarr, they can go and play something else.

[loras]

All women are beautiful. If these people don't like tuskarr, they can go and play something else.

All tuskarr are beautiful*
Plenty of ugly women wherever you go.

[Zulggun]

All women are beautiful. If these people don't like tuskarr, they can go and play something else.

Yeah right. And then you have race that only 1% of players use. Wasted resources. Also, your first sentence is not true.

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It's an old race, people will go googoogaga over it just because it's from Wrath.

Assuming blizzard won't screw up tuskars like they did for example with nightborne.

[Jaggler]

I would not say Iron Horde Mag'har is a natural fit, I like them but it took a very creative and controversial story beat for them to appear. I'd like something creative like that if the Shadowlands races ever became playable (like for Venthyr, maybe related to chasing down the Nathrezim?)

Fair point, but i would say Mag'har are essential enough that would warrant such a story (it was also a way to salvage some WoD-enemies into current azeroth with the saberon and botani coming with the Mag'har). I just think that the SL races don't really fit into the whole faction dynamic we have on Azeroth, and unless there are neutral AR's it just is a waste. In the bestcase it's kinda nice, in the worst case it damages the stories of both the factions and the SL races.

[SilverLion]

Yeah right. And then you have race that only 1% of players use. Wasted resources. Also, your first sentence is not true.

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Assuming blizzard won't screw up tuskars like they did for example with nightborne.

Objectively wrong on both counts, good job. "How dare the women in my media not be super model bimbo looking"

[Nathanyel]

Yeah right. And then you have race that only 1% of players use. Wasted resources.

Discard the "standard" races (Blood Elves, Night Elves, Orcs, Humans) which make up 50% of the population (EU and NA respectively) and consider the total number of playable races by now, and that Allied Races arrived considerably late into the game, so that most of these are alts, it's okay numbers across the board.