Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Lahis]

And the other option spend the last few decades in Outland. Not like there's a whole lot of possibilities, and i'd expect Ebonhorn to do a lot better at basic stuff than the little kid.

You don't see Ebonhorn anywhere in the Aspect promotional art they have done.

Wrathion will be the Aspect, Ebonhorn has no interest and Sabellian is just an another Sylvanas Loyalist scenario.

[huth]

You don't see Ebonhorn anywhere in the Aspect promotional art they have done.

Wrathion will be the Aspect, Ebonhorn has no interest and Sabellian is just an another Sylvanas Loyalist scenario.

Which does not conflict in any way with what i said.

[Sondrelk]

You don't see Ebonhorn anywhere in the Aspect promotional art they have done.

Wrathion will be the Aspect, Ebonhorn has no interest and Sabellian is just an another Sylvanas Loyalist scenario.

I imagine Sabellian will be negative towards Wrathion until a later patch when Wrathion does something or other to prove he is capable of being an aspect. Sabellian will then pledge his loyalty to Wrathion in order to ensure he becomes the best version of himself that he could be.

Wrathion being sidelined seems unlikely, and Sabellian being evil seems far too easy an out considering he makes perfectly valid points.
Having both survive, and for Sabellian to accept Wrathion as aspect sounds like the kind of ending his arc needs. Learning actual maturity, and not just pretending to be.

[loras]

So, basically the plot of the last three expansions, again?

Sargeras had that rapey vibe going for Azeroth but might also just kill her, bald dude wanted to use her as fuel for his universe reoriginator-inator, the old gods want to infect her and turn her into one of them, and finally the pantheon are apparantly just zealous wankers that want "educate" her into becoming like them, a nice and properly behaved and believing young titan lady.

So yeah smothering her in her infancy is not too creative, but it's not the exact same thing. Hell maybe they don't even want to kill her but would rather turn her into the titan equivalent of a braindead plant.

- - - Updated - - -

I imagine Sabellian will be negative towards Wrathion until a later patch when Wrathion does something or other to prove he is capable of being an aspect. Sabellian will then pledge his loyalty to Wrathion in order to ensure he becomes the best version of himself that he could be.

Wrathion being sidelined seems unlikely, and Sabellian being evil seems far too easy an out considering he makes perfectly valid points.
Having both survive, and for Sabellian to accept Wrathion as aspect sounds like the kind of ending his arc needs. Learning actual maturity, and not just pretending to be.

Maybe they will share the burden? That could ease Wrathion's fear of falling to the whispers alone too.

Sabellian simply has the much more impressive achievement list, as far as the black dragonflight is concerned; standing against the dark alone, rebuilding, biding and surviving where few else could.
Meanwhile Wrathion was given much and more and also did various impressive things, but he kinda also almost ended the world with his rash stupidity.

Keep in mind they did that for That other powerful position as well, after various holders of the title fell to corruption. The warchief is no more due to its riskiness, maybe the ones directly responsible for the domain in which the old gods lie should not rule alone either.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

The Titans seem to want her stable. Not chaotic or anything explosive(Or rather the Keepers based on loving the Titans). Also I hope Odyn becomes relevant if we keep delving into Titan lore or history.

[Cheezits]

The Uldaman books revealing Uldoros/Tyrhold's purpose of turning Azeroth energy into Order implies that she wasn't a "Titan" to begin with and they may have made her one. The Primalists may just want her to "natural" without any other magic going into her.

Titans are World Souls, but not all World Souls are Titans it seems. Or at least not Order Titans. There was an interesting theory on twitter that says that's why Argus went to the Shadowlands: he was so infused with Death (either on purpose or secretly) that he truly was a death creature, and so he went to that plane on his death.

So a world soul could just be a rare sentient being that is super susceptible to Magic and can be turned into another Pantheon Titan, Void Lord, Eternal One, etc.

Actually.... maybe this is why the Eternal Ones are beatable by adventurers and aren't as powerful as Titans. Because they are created by the First Ones and are not natural world souls like the Titans.

[loras]

The Uldaman books revealing Uldoros/Tyrhold's purpose of turning Azeroth energy into Order implies that she wasn't a "Titan" to begin with and they may have made her one. The Primalists may just want her to "natural" without any other magic going into her.

Titans are World Souls, but not all World Souls are Titans it seems. Or at least not Order Titans. There was an interesting theory on twitter that says that's why Argus went to the Shadowlands: he was so infused with Death (either on purpose or secretly) that he truly was a death creature.

So a world soul could just be a rare sentient being that is super susceptible to Magic and can be turned into another Titan, Void Lord etc.

There is also the point that titans are not like i.e. the eternal ones in that they are not made, but born.
And that even the ones on the pantheon are not uniform in their powers' nature; some tend towards the elements, some to life, one "fell" to chaos and argus was indeed turned to death. Only two of them align with order.

Perhaps there is more to the relation between the keepers and the titans, in that the keepers could be more order inclined than their creators as their creators could have either been influenced by actual order creatures to create creatures mire orderly than themselves, or that the titans deemed "order" to be the most suitable power to realise their designs.

Practically that would mean that the keepers are order's old god equivalent, or something close to it anyhow as they also involve titanic power in their creation.

- - - Updated - - -

The Uldaman books revealing Uldoros/Tyrhold's purpose of turning Azeroth energy into Order implies that she wasn't a "Titan" to begin with and they may have made her one. The Primalists may just want her to "natural" without any other magic going into her.

Titans are World Souls, but not all World Souls are Titans it seems. Or at least not Order Titans. There was an interesting theory on twitter that says that's why Argus went to the Shadowlands: he was so infused with Death (either on purpose or secretly) that he truly was a death creature, and so he went to that plane on his death.

So a world soul could just be a rare sentient being that is super susceptible to Magic and can be turned into another Pantheon Titan, Void Lord, Eternal One, etc.

Actually.... maybe this is why the Eternal Ones are beatable by adventurers and aren't as powerful as Titans. Because they are created by the First Ones and are not natural world souls like the Titans.

Keep in mind that Sargeras illustrates that they can turn even after inception.
So perhaps titans are just on a whole different level, and the ones we know of just happen to have been convinced most by order, so far.

[Cheezits]

Yeah I think there's a case to be made that the First Ones are the true Order pantheon and they may have groomed the Titans to be Order creatures as well, even though they aren't inherently of Order. After all, Argus looks like them even though he didn't get the Uldorus treatment/fed Arcane.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Sabellian is just an another Sylvanas Loyalist scenario.

I hope not. Sabellian seems more trustworthy and intelligent, as well as responsible. Wrathion isn't a very good choice for a leader on account of his immaturity and vanity.

[Gurahk]

I know they won't, but I reaally hope they don't make Wrathion the aspect. The kid needs to be humbled.

[Revamp Man]

It is ofc entirely possible that after being freed, the Incarnates will find a way to get more power in patch content.

Like maybe the same source of corruption that causes galakrond

[Makabreska]

Like maybe the same source of corruption that causes galakrond

I am still 100% convinced Galak will be back.

[Sondrelk]

I am still 100% convinced Galak will be back.

Given time travel is a core theme with the Bronze Dragonflight i imagine it's inevitable.

[Nebron]

Wrathion leader, Ebyssian as advisor and running all the boring everyday stuff behind the scenes seems ideal to me from a practical PoV.

Yeah, that could definitely work

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Yeah I think there's a case to be made that the First Ones are the true Order pantheon and they may have groomed the Titans to be Order creatures as well, even though they aren't inherently of Order. After all, Argus looks like them even though he didn't get the Uldorus treatment/fed Arcane.

I wouldn't be a fan of the First Ones being the "real" pantheon of Order simply on account of the fact that such a change would effectively confirm many people's suspicions that the First Ones are just supposed to be a "one-up" on the Titans.

- - - Updated - - -

Maybe they will share the burden? That could ease Wrathion's fear of falling to the whispers alone too.

Sabellian simply has the much more impressive achievement list, as far as the black dragonflight is concerned; standing against the dark alone, rebuilding, biding and surviving where few else could.
Meanwhile Wrathion was given much and more and also did various impressive things, but he kinda also almost ended the world with his rash stupidity.

Keep in mind they did that for That other powerful position as well, after various holders of the title fell to corruption. The warchief is no more due to its riskiness, maybe the ones directly responsible for the domain in which the old gods lie should not rule alone either.

I did consider that. There seems to be a trend of "two heads are better than one" lately, what with the revocation of the Warchief title in the Horde, so I figure that lends credence to this concept. It feels like they're probably going to do some kind of compromise since those are such a big deal lately, so it's possible. That, or they both decide to give the title to Ebyssian, but that seems highly unlikely given how arrogant both Wrathion and Sabellian are (then again, these writers aren't the sort to keep characters consistent).

[Alanar]

I hope not. Sabellian seems more trustworthy and intelligent, as well as responsible. Wrathion isn't a very good choice for a leader on account of his immaturity and vanity.

Which will be the theme moving forward. Idk its hard to not see it.. He will grow and eventually be " mature " enough to become the aspect. I agree sabillian seems to much like a loyalist scenario. Kinda giving you a taste, but not actually something you choose, just to give you the impression, but will lead to wrathion stepping up in the end. To me they just seem to fill in the black dragon roster, cus its been quite empty for a while.

Having it be an actuall community choice would be cool, but this is just part of the story they try to tell is my guess.

[Nymrohd]

I hope not. Sabellian seems more trustworthy and intelligent, as well as responsible. Wrathion isn't a very good choice for a leader on account of his immaturity and vanity.

The main function of an aspect though is not to be a leader of their flight. That seems secondary. Their function is to defend Azeroth and to complete their individual oaths.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

The main faction of an aspect though is not to be a leader of their flight. That seems secondary. Their faction is to defend Azeroth and to complete their individual oaths.

Hrm, that's fair. Although this is something of a stupid suggestion, perhaps Wrathion would make a better Aspect of Earth and Sabellian a better de-facto leader of the Black Dragonflight? Would it be possible for Sabellian to actually lead the flight whereas Wrathion actually functions as an Aspect?

- - - Updated - - -

Which will be the theme moving forward. Idk its hard to not see it.. He will grow and eventually be " mature " enough to become the aspect. I agree sabillian seems to much like a loyalist scenario. Kinda giving you a taste, but not actually something you choose, just to give you the impression, but will lead to wrathion stepping up in the end. To me they just seem to fill in the black dragon roster, cus its been quite empty for a while.

Having it be an actuall community choice would be cool, but this is just part of the story they try to tell is my guess.

If it is just an illusion of choice, I do hope that Sabellian still gets some kind of major, long-running role. I wouldn't want him reduced to a villain since he seems like an enjoyable character already.

[Nymrohd]

Hrm, that's fair. Although this is something of a stupid suggestion, perhaps Wrathion would make a better Aspect of Earth and Sabellian a better de-facto leader of the Black Dragonflight? Would it be possible for Sabellian to actually lead the flight whereas Wrathion actually functions as an Aspect?

My response to this would be, why do the dragonflights need leaders? Can they not be led by democracy given their populations are not particularly large and their population is fairly intelligent as is? For that matter, why do the Aspects even need to be Dragons? Is Kalecgos more deserving of being the Aspect of Magic than Khadgar? E.g. Aegwynn certainly was far more deserving than Malygos who abdicated his oath in his grief (while Aegwynn kept fighting even her own child in service of Azeroth). Thrall could be a better Aspect of the Earth than Wrathion. Malfurion has done as much if not more to guard the dream as Ysera has.

The idea of the flights as monarchies can very well be instinct; for all we know the dragons may have pack behaviour. But it could just be the influence of Order. And while I do not thing the influence of Order is universally negative, that doesn't mean it should not be challenged. We talked about this earlier with the Kyrian were we had a narrative about challenging tradition and I'll clarify that I do not at all mind challenging tradition (as long as we have actual arguments on why the challenge is valid that are not deeply rooted in a very narrow and biased view of morality). The flights seem perfect for democracy. Heck considering how the blues chose a new Aspect, the structure for a conclave is there.

[Jaggler]

Hrm, that's fair. Although this is something of a stupid suggestion, perhaps Wrathion would make a better Aspect of Earth and Sabellian a better de-facto leader of the Black Dragonflight? Would it be possible for Sabellian to actually lead the flight whereas Wrathion actually functions as an Aspect?

- - - Updated - - -



If it is just an illusion of choice, I do hope that Sabellian still gets some kind of major, long-running role. I wouldn't want him reduced to a villain since he seems like an enjoyable character already.

It would be kinda weird to take this much time to redeem the black dragonflight, re-introduce Sabellian only to then whack part of the flight with the villain bat again. I think having a trifecta of leading characters with Wrathion as Aspect, Ebyssian as advisor and Sabellian as someone who routinely challenges Wrathion but is ultimately loyal would work pretty well.