1. #70681
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    Eternal in quotes I forgot to add. Though I don't think she'll ever return to Azeroth, she'll just appear when we get all the remaining good guys for the final battle. She's got universes of souls to clean out.
    Nah, when Alleria snaps on the Void expansion, Sylvanas will be there to save her or kill her (depends on if Arator/Turalyon have gone first).

  2. #70682
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Nah, when Alleria snaps on the Void expansion, Sylvanas will be there to save her or kill her (depends on if Arator/Turalyon have gone first).
    Sylvanas isn't a satellite character of Alleria. Just as Alleria isn't a satellite character of her sister. They both have their own separate storylines. When Sylvanas returns, it will be about Death again or something like that.

  3. #70683
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    That was actually what I thought was going to happen, though they went with a route that pleases more people (keep her alive, but in eternal punishment/penance). I was fully expecting her fate to be getting blown up into smitheroons by the Jailer before he goes into Zereth Mortis, and realizing at the very last second he played her.
    Honestly, I was thinking it over and a penance ending could also work and be even better with that portrayal. Once again returning to something derived of Catholic theology, one idea I had was that Sylvanas and Zovaal would eventually come face-to-face with the designer(s) of the afterlife – an alternative portrayal of the Arbiter concept, or a tribunal of First Ones, or something like that – and they would each come to different conclusions. Zovaal would continue to rage against reality, desperately trying to rationalize his attempts to reshape reality as anything other than ultimately selfish, misguided, and stupid, and ends up inevitably destroyed or cast back into the Maw for more eternal torment. Conversely, Sylvie finally realizes how fruitless her efforts are. She finally understands that hyperintelligent entities of superior moral and intellectual judgment have rightly decided that using chemical weapons and pursuing a fruitless campaign of revenge is bad and that she deserved to go to hell—and, ironically, for doing so is spared eternal torment. The revelation there would be that it is not the Arbiter who chooses where you go—the western perspective could be right. People do have agency. The afterlife is not really an engine of anima extraction, but rather an engine of redemption. This is why Revendreth exists—to give people a final option at realizing that they alone have responsibility for their actions and finally accepting that they were wrong, allowing them to cast off their sins and humble themselves. Conversely, the Maw is not a place you are simply sent to, but one that you send yourself to—the final destination for the unrepentant, people who continue to blame the structure of the universe or this or that for actions they took solely on their own and had the option to avoid.

    Obviously, this plot would require a substantial rewrite of the plot of Shadowlands, because it would undermine the point to have it be possible for the machine to break and send everybody to the Maw instead, and it also seems far more difficult and cheap to redeem Sylvanas precisely because of the whole "she obliterated people's souls" thing—I'm not sure how Zovaal and Sylvanas would damage the engine of death in this continuity, but it would have to be different.

  4. #70684
    The Insane Raetary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Their point sucked and I will die on that hill.
    I mean, the point of it was that their blind adherence to 'tHe PatH' was detrimental to them and the souls they carry.

    If they erased Uthers memory they wouldn't have ever found out about Frostmourne and the Jailers influence on Azeroth.
    Kyrestia just flat out ignored Uthers scar and Devos' warning about a Maw weapon being swung around a mortal world.
    Even later when she was informed about Oribos' state and the jailer by us, she just kept sending Ascendants out to further yeet souls into the Maw.
    The Paragons didn't do shit either, neither did most of the lesser Ascendant.

    All because they just couldn't stop 'fOlLoWInG tHE pATh' for 5 minutes to (literally) save their lives.


    I agree that the conclusion they ended up drawing from it (the memory thing) was ridiculous and was detrimental to the purpose for the covenants existence, but Devos was very much correct when she initially called Kyrestia out.
    Last edited by Raetary; 2022-11-21 at 09:03 PM.


    Formerly known as Arafal

  5. #70685
    The original point of Devos was that blind Loyalty to the Archon, and the Path, was wrong. However the bulk of the Forsworn came from just not this base idea, but the temple of loyalty was the major sticking point and brought most of the doubt and revolt.

    I think the easily agreeable thing between both sides was the blind Loyalty is stupid, hence why the temple is changed. But I'm not sure the chooseable identity thing was the original endgane. It might have been due to the "this gives me the ick" modern twitter crowd.
    Last edited by Cheezits; 2022-11-21 at 09:21 PM.

  6. #70686
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    I agree that the conclusion they ended up drawing from it (the memory thing) was ridiculous and was detrimental to the purpose for the covenants existence, but Devos was very much correct when she initially called Kyrestia out.
    That is what the entire storyline focuses on tbh. The memory part.

  7. #70687
    Any news on the patch cadence interview?

  8. #70688
    I enjoyed the short story. I always like to read about out beloved WoW characters and how they get along in any context, in this case, a wedding. There are interesting parts:

    - Calia and Mia (Greymane's wife) talk politely. Forsaken and Gilnean treaty incoming?

    - Relations between Horde and Alliance have never been better, although Night Elves still resent both factions, which is perfectly understandable IMO.

    - Arator and the future emperor of the Dwarves, Moria's son, are friends. I do not think that they would remark this if is not going to be relevant in the future.

    - Turalyon and Alleria are doing well as a couple.

    - Wrathion heavily portrayed as the future Black Aspect. Wonder if our characters choice between Wrathion and Sabellyan will have any consequence. Also he is having nightmares about him becoming a new Deathwing (and I cracked up a bit when he interacts with Baine).

    - Jaina having trouble with pirates? I found this one very interesting, as I guessed that with the timeskip Kul'tiras would have regained his naval strenght, and with the Alliance support, no one should dare to oppose them at sea. Maybe this could be important in the future.

    - The tauren shaman, which is the one at the Dracthyr starting area, right? Being at the wedding and talking about the true power of the tauren sounds interesting too. I guess that we will see the Grimtotem empowered by the Primalists.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zebir95 View Post
    Any news on the patch cadence interview?
    Patch 10.0.2. its a thing and we will know about It soon. Big patches every 5-6 months. From what I get from the interview, DF is going to have the best post launch content of any expansion in terms of cadence and quantity, lets hope that the quality is top notch too.
    Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive.


  9. #70689
    The last short story confirms once again that Turalyon will become a villain. I mean, just look at how he burst out laughing when he heard a joke... totally suspicious! Do you people reckon that he'll be overthrown in the Siege of Stormwind at the end of Dragonflight or at the end of the next expansion?

  10. #70690
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkarath View Post
    Patch 10.0.2. its a thing and we will know about It soon. Big patches every 5-6 months. From what I get from the interview, DF is going to have the best post launch content of any expansion in terms of cadence and quantity, lets hope that the quality is top notch too.
    I hope so. Wow has a lot to prove right now.

    Anyway, thanks.

  11. #70691
    BTW i do not know if this has been discussed already:
    https://www.pcgamesn.com/world-of-wa...-warrior-class

    Drakonid allied race incoming? Blizzard's answer here seems to imply that the Dragon Isles could be a good chance for more allied races.

    It would be funny if they do it because a drakonid (and neutral, I Guess) Allied Race would be 1000000 times more popular than Dracthyr.
    Last edited by Darkarath; 2022-11-21 at 11:50 PM.
    Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive.


  12. #70692
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkarath View Post
    BTW i do not know if this has been discussed already:
    https://www.pcgamesn.com/world-of-wa...-warrior-class

    Drakonid allied race incoming? Blizzard's answer here seems to imply that the Dragon Isles could be a good chance for more allied races.

    It would be funny if they do it because a drakonid (and neutral, I Guess) Allied Race would be 1000000 times more popular than Dracthyr.
    I don't think Drakonid are going to be as popular as MMOC thinks. They are muscular, but are more lizards than Dracthyr are, and are just the same classes as usual.

    That being said I think most likely is Tuskarr (male and female) and then Drakonid. But also possibly whatever the Dwarf variant is we meet.

  13. #70693
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkarath View Post
    BTW i do not know if this has been discussed already:
    https://www.pcgamesn.com/world-of-wa...-warrior-class

    Drakonid allied race incoming? Blizzard's answer here seems to imply that the Dragon Isles could be a good chance for more allied races.

    It would be funny if they do it because a drakonid (and neutral, I Guess) Allied Race would be 1000000 times more popular than Dracthyr.
    Boo for not giving Dracthyr access to other classes...

  14. #70694
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkarath View Post
    BTW i do not know if this has been discussed already:
    https://www.pcgamesn.com/world-of-wa...-warrior-class

    Drakonid allied race incoming? Blizzard's answer here seems to imply that the Dragon Isles could be a good chance for more allied races.

    It would be funny if they do it because a drakonid (and neutral, I Guess) Allied Race would be 1000000 times more popular than Dracthyr.
    Allied races were bfa content, give it a rest.

  15. #70695
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    People's problem with Forsworn is that they were in the right to start and didn't really get a good ending until a lot of them got killed.
    But they weren't "right". Every single Ascended Kyrian at some point decided to give up their memories. Ascension was a decades-long process, and were it not for the Anima Drought, those who decided against it could return to Oribos to head to another afterlife.

    Sure, there were the fantasy equivalent of societal urging ("You have been chosen") which would even amount to propaganda in non-Fantasy settings, but the only ones forcing things on people were the Forsworn, in their very first mass appearance they forced doubts into aspirants, effectively converting them to Forsworn.

    Yes, the rank and file were merely misled, but higherups were plain evil for hiding details and instigating violence (of course it's Fantasy, so they were corrupted by Doubt, which isn't just an emotion here)

    That the Kyrian welcomed them back later was an olive branch: "ok, if it prevents future uprisings like this, we'll let people keep/retrieve their mortal memories. We're picking up new ideas from these mortals anyway."

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Conceptuel View Post
    Sylvanas, rather than a sad, lost person who legitimately had a point, should have been portrayed as a narcissistic lunatic who is so up her own ass with self-aggrandizement and nihilistic frustration that she fails to realize that any effort made to reshape the universe according to the whims of limited flesh brains invariably fall flat.
    I mean, isn't that exactly what we saw in 9.0? She is so convinced by the misrepresentations of the SL the Jailer fed her, that "we can make everything better, if only we were in charge", and believes that she only has to explain this to Anduin to convince him to join the Jailer's side.
    But Anduin's obvious answers tear holes in that view, and she begins to question herself.
    What follows is, use a shorthand, basically the Anakin/Padme meme:
    "We're gonna make everything better, we're equal partners, and we do this for the freedom of all, right?"
    *Jailer forges Arthas's soul into the mourneblade*
    "we're equal partners and we do this for the freedom of all, right?"
    *Jailer continues to torture Jaina&Co. after already having won*
    "Oh..."
    Last edited by Nathanyel; 2022-11-22 at 06:41 AM.
    But your duty to Azeroth is not yet complete. More is demanded of you... a price the living cannot pay.

  16. #70696
    Quote Originally Posted by Zulggun View Post
    Allied races were bfa content, give it a rest.
    So was M+. Don't see why it couldnt be used going forward, same as other expansion specific stuff that players might like, for instance Dragonriding.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    The last short story confirms once again that Turalyon will become a villain. I mean, just look at how he burst out laughing when he heard a joke... totally suspicious! Do you people reckon that he'll be overthrown in the Siege of Stormwind at the end of Dragonflight or at the end of the next expansion?
    Who knows. Soon he might ask for Stormwinds defences to be fortified against attacks from rogue dragons and primalists, and then the people of the Alliance will truly see ho tyrannical Turalyon can be when it comes to proven hostile threats who are currently out in the world plotting to kill them all.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  17. #70697
    The Lightbringer Valysar's Avatar
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    Enemy difficulty has been adjusted to increase relative player power in all Legion raid encounters.
    Well, it's worse than before.

    But as always, Blizzard does not know what they are doing with old raids...

    Just let us oneshot everything in Legion and BFA, like we can OS Black Temple's bosses, or Hellfire Citadell etc...

  18. #70698
    Quote Originally Posted by Valysar View Post
    Well, it's worse than before.

    But as always, Blizzard does not know what they are doing with old raids...

    Just let us oneshot everything in Legion and BFA, like we can OS Black Temple's bosses, or Hellfire Citadell etc...
    Why? Idly oneshotting enemies is the most boring gameplay the game offers. And by guaranteeing it you remove the small amount of progression you get in older raids constantly going in with a smaller group until you can eventually solo it.
    You will outgear raids eventually, and not everyone feels progression from seeing tiny numerical increases in damage output, they see it in stuff like farming old dugeons increasingly easily, and with less hassle.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  19. #70699
    The Lightbringer Valysar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Why? Idly oneshotting enemies is the most boring gameplay the game offers. And by guaranteeing it you remove the small amount of progression you get in older raids constantly going in with a smaller group until you can eventually solo it.
    You will outgear raids eventually, and not everyone feels progression from seeing tiny numerical increases in damage output, they see it in stuff like farming old dugeons increasingly easily, and with less hassle.
    Yes, they're OLD raids, so who cares if we can OS them just to farm xmogs ? No one has complained in recent years about us being able to OS old raids like BT as I said. Legion and BFA are now outdated contents. Let us blast those raids easily.

  20. #70700
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    So was M+. Don't see why it couldnt be used going forward, same as other expansion specific stuff that players might like, for instance Dragonriding.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Who knows. Soon he might ask for Stormwinds defences to be fortified against attacks from rogue dragons and primalists, and then the people of the Alliance will truly see ho tyrannical Turalyon can be when it comes to proven hostile threats who are currently out in the world plotting to kill them all.
    This still pales in comparison to the possibility of Turalyon demanding that the Alliance hero report to him all the important things that will go down in the Dragon Isles. This single act of sheer entitlement and arrogance would definitely spark a civil war to overthrow the tyrant.

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