1. #71081
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Conceptuel View Post
    If I trusted Blizzard to know how to write interpersonal conflict for an extended period of time without one party randomly being demonized, I'd even be all good with a long-term schism in the Black Dragonflight.
    Pretty much. There's nothing wrong with keeping the spot open. I'll need to write a longer-form response on the belf thing on the other thread, but in general there's nothing wrong with keeping a plot open. In fact, quite the opposite in an MMO, since having both options leaves more story opportunities and the format precludes any definitive ending. So once you solve someone's story too thoroughly, they just have to truck along doing fuck all. Neither Sabellian nor Wrathion really have this problem, since they're flexible enough in usage, especially Wrathion who recovered from having the thing he was allegedly preparing for take place entirely in his absence, but the Primalist/Aspect conflict for example isn't something that really needed to be settled for all time. The stakes can basically be just regional so long as they fight each other, no one's destroying the world, and they're interesting enough ideas to keep going. There's a reason I maintain that the Wrath ending was actually one of the wisest Blizzard calls because it kept the Scourge on the board.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

    Tinkers will be the next Class confirmed.

  2. #71082
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    Can't help feeling an expansion rebuilding Azeroth after the battering it's taken would have worked better.
    hit level 65 on my main just now and it feels like all the quests have been done better in other expansions.
    There's not a lot of imagination, What I had pleased about was the Talent system and getting some spells back
    like the rifts for my destruct lock.

    A good indicator is the wow token price it's now at 270k, It's not been that low in months.

  3. #71083
    Quote Originally Posted by oathy View Post
    Can't help feeling an expansion rebuilding Azeroth after the battering it's taken would have worked better.
    hit level 65 on my main just now and it feels like all the quests have been done better in other expansions.
    There's not a lot of imagination, What I had pleased about was the Talent system and getting some spells back
    like the rifts for my destruct lock.

    A good indicator is the wow token price it's now at 270k, It's not been that low in months.
    They weren't ready for a world revamp. I agree it would've been better, but based on the old-world models they STILL had to update (Gnolls, Centaurs, airships, boats etc) there is still a lot of work that needs to be done to ship out an EK/Kalimdor expansion.

  4. #71084
    Can we take a moment to talk about how the writers clearly had to have changed their mind at some point as to whether the Dragon Isles were dormant or not? Because that seemed to have been the original intent, what with decayed buildings and the seeming permanent cloud layer in the trailer. But once we get there it's clear that everyone kept going like nothing had happened. Ohn'ara even went there often, so I don't see why the Dragons couldnt. Emerald Dragons especially, the portal is right there.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  5. #71085
    Here is the thing. Nothing about Wrathion being the last black dragon enabled him to do whatever he did. He is not a particularly powerful dragon, he doesn't have some unique magic either.
    What made Wrathion special was that he actually had the drive to save the world. He fucked up a lot but he was still there and he was still trying because he thought that was what he was supposed to do with his life. Though I am not giving credit to the writers for doing this, he is a poster child for infantile omnipotence who then grows up to be a the "precocious teenager that saves the world from the apocalypse while surrounded by vastly more qualified adults" which has been the bread and butter of teenager media for at least two decades now.
    So while I don't expect any nuance I see to be intentional my character perceives Wrathion as a well intentioned teenager that causes disasters, while Sabellian has no good intentions and doesn't give a crap about Azeroth up until there is some power for him to claim (else he'd have moved to Azeroth soon after N'zoth died instead of waiting for the Dragon Isles and the prospect of becoming an Aspect). Ultimately I can trust that Wrathion will be there when we need him far more than I can trust Sabellian to be there (Legion notwithstanding but I just blame the writers for that brainfart).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Can we take a moment to talk about how the writers clearly had to have changed their mind at some point as to whether the Dragon Isles were dormant or not? Because that seemed to have been the original intent, what with decayed buildings and the seeming permanent cloud layer in the trailer. But once we get there it's clear that everyone kept going like nothing had happened. Ohn'ara even went there often, so I don't see why the Dragons couldnt. Emerald Dragons especially, the portal is right there.
    My assumption is that the other cultures just kept living their lives as always while the various dragonspawn servants slowly abandoned their posts in the rest of the Isles and moved to Thaldraszus.

  6. #71086
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Can we take a moment to talk about how the writers clearly had to have changed their mind at some point as to whether the Dragon Isles were dormant or not? Because that seemed to have been the original intent, what with decayed buildings and the seeming permanent cloud layer in the trailer. But once we get there it's clear that everyone kept going like nothing had happened. Ohn'ara even went there often, so I don't see why the Dragons couldnt. Emerald Dragons especially, the portal is right there.
    I don't get this either. So life was sprawling on the Dragon Isles and it was never a forgotten and lost place? I mean there are entire civilizations on the Dragon Isles. This gives me some strange flashbacks to Broken Isles when we "discovered" them. It just doesn't feel genuine or natural, contrary to Pandaria, which was introduced with another sentiment - which worked, whereas it pretty much does not in the other cases.
    Last edited by Nyel; 2022-12-01 at 07:48 AM.
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  7. #71087
    I think only the titan constructs and races like the djaradin went dormant, while the magic removed the knowledge how to reach the islands from the dragons minds and prevents them to gain the knowledge. The other living beings remained active, but stuck on the isles.

    Ohnara represents a problem though, if she could leave at will. She should have been stuck there as well.

  8. #71088
    Quote Originally Posted by Reinhart11 View Post
    I think only the titan constructs and races like the djaradin went dormant, while the magic removed the knowledge how to reach the islands from the dragons minds and prevents them to gain the knowledge. The other living beings remained active, but stuck on the isles.

    Ohnara represents a problem though, if she could leave at will. She should have been stuck there as well.
    Not the knowledge, the ability. They knew exactly where they were, they just couldn't get there and the barrier could only be opened from inside. That's what the first cinematic with stony boi was about.

    What went dormant was mostly elemental energies, "regular" mortals were pretty much unaffected.

    With Ohn'ara, there's the question of how much she is physically present, or if she's pulling something like Kalecgos in the mountains.

  9. #71089
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    I don't get this either. So life was sprawling on the Dragon Isles and it was never a forgotten and lost place? I mean there are entire civilizations on the Dragon Isles. This gives me some strange flashbacks to Broken Isles when we "discovered" them. It just doesn't feel genuine or natural, contrary to Pandaria, which was introduced with another sentiment - which worked, whereas it pretty much does not in the other cases.
    Broken Isles i could get behind. Like most islands on Azeroth we always knew where it was and how to get there, we just never had any reason to.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  10. #71090
    I can see the Emerald Dream portal having something to do with the Ohnara mystery. We don't have any confirmation that the portal was turned off with Tyrhold.

    Remember that there is an "echo" of Tyrande and Malfurion bringing the seed to Merithra. What if it isn't a future chapter, but actually a tease that the Nelves and the Green snuck into the Isles a while back using the portal?

    Also: Tyr---- has a model, and is pre-Galakrond

    https://twitter.com/portergauge/stat...OniZ6P8kcpUZxA
    Last edited by Cheezits; 2022-12-01 at 01:53 PM.

  11. #71091
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    Professions actually feel like more a part of the game and my character than they ever have, and for the first time ever I am excited to have the same professions on alts that I do on my mains instead of just taking gathering professions to feed my mains!
    give up dat booty
    Quote Originally Posted by Pendra View Post
    <3
    For the matriarchy.

  12. #71092
    Quote Originally Posted by Izalla View Post
    Professions actually feel like more a part of the game and my character than they ever have, and for the first time ever I am excited to have the same professions on alts that I do on my mains instead of just taking gathering professions to feed my mains!
    The system is insanely confusing, however.

  13. #71093
    https://twitter.com/Portergauge/stat...83307283689472

    I really hate that people have power over stuff like this because they whine.

    Writers can't have creative freedom because someone got offended. Fucking narcissistic jerks.

  14. #71094
    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    https://twitter.com/Portergauge/stat...83307283689472

    I really hate that people have power over stuff like this because they whine.

    Writers can't have creative freedom because someone got offended. Fucking narcissistic jerks.
    I dunno, the questline was very odd all around. It felt like it was building to us allying with the gnolls to kill the mage, the gnolls were far more likeable anyways.
    It's a slightly humorous take on the murderhobo archetype where we go in and just start killing gnolls by the hundreds, especially given the gnolls there are weaker and more numerous, but it doesnt really do much more than that. You just go in and help a mage kill loads of gnolls because of flimsy reasons essentially boiling down to "gnolls are generally evil".
    Again. Making the ending one where we achieve peace with the gnolls by kicking out the mage would have been a much more fitting and funny ending.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  15. #71095
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    I dunno, the questline was very odd all around. It felt like it was building to us allying with the gnolls to kill the mage, the gnolls were far more likeable anyways.
    It's a slightly humorous take on the murderhobo archetype where we go in and just start killing gnolls by the hundreds, especially given the gnolls there are weaker and more numerous, but it doesnt really do much more than that. You just go in and help a mage kill loads of gnolls because of flimsy reasons essentially boiling down to "gnolls are generally evil".
    Again. Making the ending one where we achieve peace with the gnolls by kicking out the mage would have been a much more fitting and funny ending.
    +1
    Though honestly it's fine as is as well.
    I mean we barely know exceptions to evil amongst gnolls, it's not like the mage has no point at all.

    So yeah, leaving one generic evil gnoll army versus one comically evil mage might actually be the best resolution, morally speaking.

    I mean us siding sith the gnolls would be comical, but the followup to that in turn could just as easily be that we discover that the gnolls ate our allies when we weren't looking.
    Not for any particular reason, they were just hungry and gnolls.
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

    Furthermore, I consider that Carthage Slam must be destroyed.

  16. #71096
    The portayal of the Gnolls and the Djaradin this expansion are great. 95% enemies with a couple friendly weirdos like Monark and the story telling guy.

    I would like the Djaradin to have a peace treaty made with the dragons, and would love playable Gnolls, but their presentation as mostly enemies with reasonable behaviors and cool cultures is nice. I'm tired of the "rebel faction good guys" trope.

  17. #71097
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    The system is insanely confusing, however.
    Yep. They went from pointless professions to making them 100x more confusing just for the sake of making them "complex" (which they are not - they are just confusing). It's better than what we had before, but it's a complete overload of reagents, materials, traits, stuff you can craft etc.
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  18. #71098
    Weird how much Sundered Flame they added in one zone. Should have spread them around so they felt like a growing threat. Also weird how they went from a Dracthyr weyrn to having the full variety of dragonkin.

  19. #71099
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    Yep. They went from pointless professions to making them 100x more confusing just for the sake of making them "complex" (which they are not - they are just confusing). It's better than what we had before, but it's a complete overload of reagents, materials, traits, stuff you can craft etc.
    If they didnt then we would be in a situation where the only limiting factor in crafting gear is either soulbound drops, or resources. We would have either ended up with resources being almost worthless, or having them sell for thousands. Neither are a good option.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  20. #71100
    Quote Originally Posted by loras View Post
    So yeah, leaving one generic evil gnoll army versus one comically evil mage might actually be the best resolution, morally speaking.

    I mean us siding sith the gnolls would be comical, but the followup to that in turn could just as easily be that we discover that the gnolls ate our allies when we weren't looking.
    Not for any particular reason, they were just hungry and gnolls.
    I think that would make for a funny and interesting questline.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    Writers can't have creative freedom because someone got offended. Fucking narcissistic jerks.
    That whole thread reeks of oversensitivity. Sure, it's a little stupid and myopic, and the joke doesn't land exceptionally well, but the language used is almost as though this were some kind of legitimate issue of morality and not a side-questline in a video game. Semantic choices like "the humor is not worth the implications" and some of the superfluously emotional responses demonstrated in the comments in that thread make me feel like people really ought to calm down and save their outrage for something that needs it.
    Last edited by Le Conceptuel; 2022-12-01 at 07:24 PM.

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