Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Makabreska]

You really don't need statistics for that.
M+ is objectively easier to get into and run than raiding is, its quicker, requires less players and significantly less preparation.
It also rewards you a ton more since its repeatable, whereas raids are a weekly activity.

The feature is bound to be more popular simply based on that.

Ok, and how much prep you need for LFR, the most popular raiding mode? Because you didn't remove it from the consideration, did you?

[Makorus]

Ye sure pal. No reason, no rewards. Things like fun from beating the hardest content, or the bragging rights and feeling of accomplishment, or the gear that is actually not worse than M+ and is a slot by slot and spec by spec case. Y'all people not realizing that raiding has been carrying this game for years is like, I dunno...

Yes. Enjoying raids is the only reason why anyone would do raids these days, which is why the game is bleeding like crazy.

There's a reason why twice the amount of people have KSM compared to Curve.

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Ok, and how much prep you need for LFR, the most popular raiding mode? Because you didn't remove it from the consideration, did you?

lmao actually bringing up LFR in your argument, whats the point?

[Makabreska]

Yes. Enjoying raids is the only reason why anyone would do raids these days, which is why the game is bleeding like crazy.

There's a reason why twice the amount of people have KSM compared to Curve.

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lmao actually bringing up LFR in your argument, whats the point?

Well, first you said transmog is the only reason, now you add the enjoyment. Progress!

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lmao actually bringing up LFR in your argument, whats the point?

Ok, so you don't want to bring LFR? Then we won't be bringing key runs below 10, because what's the point? You either bring a total raiding and M+ content, or you don't compare them at all, becuase then you start to cherry pick to better fit into your argument.

[Sondrelk]

Raiding has a very distinct advantage over dungeons. Each one is unique, and you get new ones all the time. Dungeons are shorter, and really only surpass raids in content at the very beginning of the expansion.
The raids are also where the story is primarily focused. It has unique cosmetics and mounts. And it's both more modular in difficulty than Dungeons while also being longer in format. So you get a combination of those interested in plot, those interested in cosmetics, and those interested in large format activities to do as a group.

A dungeon is less interesting in that sense. It really only has the competetive angle, and even then just really being better than raids in the sense that there is more variety from week to week, and also that it requires less people. Raids are still the high-water mark for prestigious content accepted by WoW players.

[Makorus]

Well, first you said transmog is the only reason, now you add the enjoyment. Progress!

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Ok, so you don;t want to bring LFR? Then we won't be bringing key runs below 10, because what's the point?

Yes, why would I bring up runs below 10? 15s are easily doable for anyone at like 220-230 ilvl, and they give Mythic SoD-level of gear. Which is where the whole issue comes from. The fact that at most you get two items of gear from raids (unless someone trades), and the fact that M+ pretty much gives you a welfare 252 piece for doing a +15 (it's not like you have to time it), disincentives raiding so hard.#


Heroic guild and low-prog Mythic guilds are slowly dying, and the ripple effect will be felt next expansion.

[Raetary]

Ok, and how much prep you need for LFR

None, just like M+2-10.
Which you can do at any time, on any day of the week, for the entire week, whereas LFR still is gated by the weekly reset.
(And taking LFR queues into account, signing up on for a low-key group will be a lot quicker)

Also, afaik LFR doesn't exactly have a different reward structure, so looting is the same as nomal and above. (in other words, its not any more rewarding)


And that's ignoring the primary purpose of LFR, to give people who aren't into organized raiding a chance to see the raid.
I wouldn't be surprised if its just a one and done thing for most players.

[micwini]

Yes. Enjoying raids is the only reason why anyone would do raids these days, which is why the game is bleeding like crazy.

There's a reason why twice the amount of people have KSM compared to Curve.

The reason is that it is twice as easy.

[Makabreska]

Yes, why would I bring up runs below 10? 15s are easily doable for anyone at like 220-230 ilvl, and they give Mythic SoD-level of gear. Which is where the whole issue comes from. The fact that at most you get two items of gear from raids (unless someone trades), and the fact that M+ pretty much gives you a welfare 252 piece for doing a +15 (it's not like you have to time it), disincentives raiding so hard.

Ye, M+ gives you Mythic raiding loot, ONCE PER WEEK. You wanna tell me that's a better gearing up process than raids? Well me and all my mates disagree looking at overall amount of loot we got. Not even mentioning you get such a bigger possibilities to pass loot in raids.

[Sondrelk]

None, just like M+2-10.
Which you can do at any time, on any day of the week, for the entire week, whereas LFR still is gated by the weekly reset.
(And taking LFR queues into account, signing up on for a low-key group will be a lot quicker)

Also, afaik LFR doesn't exactly have a different reward structure, so looting is the same as nomal and above.


And that's ignoring the primary purpose of LFR, to give people who aren't into organized raiding a chance to see the raid.
I wouldn't be surprised if its just a one and done thing for most players.

LFR does give unique rewards though. The gear gotten from it is different from the rest, which does mean it has replay value, and for more than those that just want a refresher on plot or to be challenged.
M+ is infinitely replayable, but also gives nothing that one might want other than strictly better gear. At best it gives some chance of farming for unique dungeon mounts, but nothing is really gained from playing M+ on several characters like it is with Raiding.

[Cosmic Janitor]

And that's ignoring the primary purpose of LFR, to give people who aren't into organized raiding a chance to see the raid.
I wouldn't be surprised if its just a one and done thing for most players.

The only people doing LFR consistently every week are transmog farmers and masochists. Maybe some that are absolutely desperate to participate FotP content like domination sockets.

[Makabreska]

None, just like M+2-10.
Which you can do at any time, on any day of the week, for the entire week, whereas LFR still is gated by the weekly reset.
(And taking LFR queues into account, signing up on for a low-key group will be a lot quicker)

Also, afaik LFR doesn't exactly have a different reward structure, so looting is the same as nomal and above. (in other words, its not any more rewarding)


And that's ignoring the primary purpose of LFR, to give people who aren't into organized raiding a chance to see the raid.
I wouldn't be surprised if its just a one and done thing for most players.

Well, LFR also can be done at any time w/o prep, queue times can be circumvented by going different role or inviting a buddy, you can get many other players to trade you loot and go higher diff for a higher ilvl loot table, some loot pieces are superior to what M+ gives etc.

But this is actually a fruitless discussion, because these two things should not be treated separately. They should be treated as an overall PvE content that complement each other and that you do do gear up and have fun.

[Nyel]

9.2 will be the jailer in a fight reminiscent of the lich king fight in a raid reminiscent of icecrown citadel

And we're getting help by Arthas to kill him...?

[Seasz]

in a raid reminiscent of icecrown citadel

We just raided Torghast...

[orderchaos]

We just raided Torghast...

didn't remind me of icecrown citadel at all

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And we're getting help by Arthas to kill him...?

with the way they've been setting things up, I wouldn't be surprised

we've started this expansion off with the story of uther and how, instead of bringing arthas in front of the arbiter, they just tossed him into the maw, where he probably doesn't belong

so arthas needs to be rejudged and probably will be once the arbiter is back

[Sondrelk]

didn't remind me of icecrown citadel at all

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with the way they've been setting things up, I wouldn't be surprised

we've started this expansion off with the story of uther and how, instead of bringing arthas in front of the arbiter, they just tossed him into the maw, where he probably doesn't belong

so arthas needs to be rejudged and probably will be once the arbiter is back

Really? You really didn't see the resemblance to ICC?
We are ascending a tower like structure, a large defining feature is a giant pillar in the middle. We end the fight on a platform at the very top.
I mean honestly, even the boss arenas that take place outside looks eerily similar to the platform where we fought Sindragosa.

The only real major difference is the the color scheme is closer to the than blue like it was in ICC. But otherwise Sanctum is as blatant a reference to ICC that you can get.

[Nyel]

Really? You really didn't see the resemblance to ICC?
We are ascending a tower like structure, a large defining feature is a giant pillar in the middle. We end the fight on a platform at the very top.
I mean honestly, even the boss arenas that take place outside looks eerily similar to the platform where we fought Sindragosa.

The only real major difference is the the color scheme is closer to the than blue like it was in ICC. But otherwise Sanctum is as blatant a reference to ICC that you can get.

I'm still convinced that Torghast is the mirror image / Shadowlands version of Icecrown Citadel. It would be a shame if they don't do anything with this:

[Lahis]

I'm still convinced that Torghast is the mirror image / Shadowlands version of Icecrown Citadel. It would be a shame if they don't do anything with this:

Icecrown Citadel is the Azeroth version of Torghast.

[orderchaos]

Really? You really didn't see the resemblance to ICC?
We are ascending a tower like structure, a large defining feature is a giant pillar in the middle. We end the fight on a platform at the very top.
I mean honestly, even the boss arenas that take place outside looks eerily similar to the platform where we fought Sindragosa.

The only real major difference is the the color scheme is closer to the than blue like it was in ICC. But otherwise Sanctum is as blatant a reference to ICC that you can get.

I know the tower Torghast is supposed to be the mirror of icecrown citadel, I'm just saying the raid sanctum of domination did not feel like icecrown citadel at all

[Osmeric]

I know the tower Torghast is supposed to be the mirror of icecrown citadel, I'm just saying the raid sanctum of domination did not feel like icecrown citadel at all

Perhaps it needed a dog that drops a pink shirt.

[Raetary]

I very much doubt they are gonna pull 2 whole icecrown-esque raids in a row.

I'm still convinced that Torghast is the mirror image / Shadowlands version of Icecrown Citadel. It would be a shame if they don't do anything with this:

You got it backwards, icecrown is Azeroths Torghast.