Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Nyel]

If 9.2 comes out in February, they need to release PTR this year, but I don't see a chance for PTR this year

They have plenty of time, there's still November and early December to get 9.2 onto the PTR.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

It is pretty clear with WoW Classic Fresh likely launching in November that they will do a mega news push in November to overshadow other products. PTR will also follow in November.

[draugril]

That is how every expansion works. Outland was completely pointless beyond being the initial staging point for the Legion's invasion, which is why the last tier takes place in Quel'thalas, because Outland itself didn't matter at all. Pandaria didn't matter beyond the fact that the opposing faction was there, so when Garrosh's forces leave everyone follows back to Orgrimmar. Northrend itself doesn't matter at all, just that the scourge happened to be based there, the expansion only takes place solely in Northrend because the terrible writing had Arthas doing fuck all and 99% of the scourge forces just hanging out in Northrend. If Arthas had actually bothered to go attack someplace the 3.3 raid could have easily been anywhere else because nothing but him and the other top end people in the scourge mattered by that point.

Disagree. Outland gave us Garrosh and the Mag'har. Blood Elves and Draenei. It introduced elements to the lore that have carried on long after that expansion was over and done with. Same with most others. I think the least impactful (unless we revisit Yrel in the future) was WoD, which can be summarized as "Gul'dan resurrected" without missing a beat in the overarching narrative. I suspect we'll be able to summarize SL as "Sylvanas was (killed/redeemed)" without any other narrative elements having an impact on the plot at all.

[Sondrelk]

Disagree. Outland gave us Garrosh and the Mag'har. Blood Elves and Draenei. It introduced elements to the lore that have carried on long after that expansion was over and done with. Same with most others. I think the least impactful (unless we revisit Yrel in the future) was WoD, which can be summarized as "Gul'dan resurrected" without missing a beat in the overarching narrative. I suspect we'll be able to summarize SL as "Sylvanas was (killed/redeemed)" without any other narrative elements having an impact on the plot at all.

WoD also gave us backstory on areas we had already visited in Outland. Where the Warsong orcs hunted, or what the Frostwold clan looked and acted like.
SL gives us backstory, but for things that we never knew before. The most impactful thing we have learned is that Frostmourne was made in the Shadowlands, or that the plague of undeath makes things look like Maldraxxus.

In the end the only things that will have changed in any major way with this expansion is Sylvanas being gone, Bolvar possibly lo longer being stuck in Icecrown, and Anduin maybe having some aftereffects of being controlled.

[draugril]

I would have enjoyed this more if it were true. We were overtly told that the alternate clans are not directly analogous - not even prior to Garrosh's intervention. Furthermore, we didn't even get the full compliment of Orcish clans. And there is a difference between having world-building value and having narrative value. No matter how much Shadowlands expands our knowledge of the operation of the cosmos (and I would argue that demystifying this aspect of the mythos is the wrong choice, regardless), that doesn't inherently make for an engaging narrative.

It's the difference between reading a novel and reading an encyclopedia. Both have their unique uses. But ostensibly, WoW is trying to tell a story.

[Lady Atia]

I would have enjoyed this more if it were true. We were overtly told that the alternate clans are not directly analogous - not even prior to Garrosh's intervention. Furthermore, we didn't even get the full compliment of Orcish clans. And there is a difference between having world-building value and having narrative value. No matter how much Shadowlands expands our knowledge of the operation of the cosmos (and I would argue that demystifying this aspect of the mythos is the wrong choice, regardless), that doesn't inherently make for an engaging narrative.

It's the difference between reading a novel and reading an encyclopedia. Both have their unique uses. But ostensibly, WoW is trying to tell a story.

I would rather read a novel than a boring encyclopedia, so I don't see why it's a problem that WoW is trying to tell a story? Legion and to some degree BfA with the N'Zoth kill were the way to go. Maybe with some more joices similiar to the Syvlanas loyalist questline.

If you want a sandbox game you can play Minecraft.

[Nyel]

Disagree. Outland gave us Garrosh and the Mag'har. Blood Elves and Draenei. It introduced elements to the lore that have carried on long after that expansion was over and done with. Same with most others. I think the least impactful (unless we revisit Yrel in the future) was WoD, which can be summarized as "Gul'dan resurrected" without missing a beat in the overarching narrative. I suspect we'll be able to summarize SL as "Sylvanas was (killed/redeemed)" without any other narrative elements having an impact on the plot at all.

You can add Elune is a moron to that Sylvanas line and be done with it.

[Dracullus]

So why do you think EU has maintenance in peak hour today? Something related to 9.1.5 or DICK JOKES MUST BE REMOVED ASAP?

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

So why do you think EU has maintenance in peak hour today? Something related to 9.1.5 or DICK JOKES MUST BE REMOVED ASAP?

Open Beta for WoW Classic "Season of Mastery" is starting later today.

9.1.5 isn't scheduled to launch before Late October/November.

[draugril]

I would rather read a novel than a boring encyclopedia, so I don't see why it's a problem that WoW is trying to tell a story? Legion and to some degree BfA with the N'Zoth kill were the way to go. Maybe with some more joices similiar to the Syvlanas loyalist questline.

If you want a sandbox game you can play Minecraft.

That wasn't my point - apologies if I wasn't clear. The point is that WoW is ostensibly trying to tell a story, but their superfluous world-building is getting in the way of that. Detailing the mechanisms behind death isn't inherently engaging storytelling - arguably, it actively detracts from immersion because it demystifies the mythos. Honestly, at this point, I can't even tell you who our protagonist is. Their goal is to write a novel, but they're getting so bogged down in the details that the outcome reads like an encyclopedia.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

To be honest, they either have to frame the narrative like a narrative game (which is impossible due to costs + resources with an old engine) or they have to put out more books and other transmedia narrative and then rely on just having the core story being told to the players and stick to it rather than have 5000 other storylines going on at the same time.

[Nyel]

To be honest, they either have to frame the narrative like a narrative game (which is impossible due to costs + resources with an old engine) or they have to put out more books and other transmedia narrative and then rely on just having the core story being told to the players and stick to it rather than have 5000 other storylines going on at the same time.

The book thing can be rather problematic as we see right now with the Sylvanas novel. Delayed, postponed, whatever - due to the "writing process" (whoever believes that). Plus, it excludes the overwhelming majority of players from the story that's happening. I own most of the Warcraft books, but I wish storytelling would take place more in than out of game.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

So why do you think EU has maintenance in peak hour today? Something related to 9.1.5 or DICK JOKES MUST BE REMOVED ASAP?

Server stability?

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

The book thing can be rather problematic as we see right now with the Sylvanas novel. Delayed, postponed, whatever - due to the "writing process" (whoever believes that). Plus, it excludes the overwhelming majority of players from the story that's happening. I own most of the Warcraft books, but I wish storytelling would take place more in than out of game.

Yeah, but even then the snail pace in WoW is ridiculous. Like they couldn't tell the story of Sylvanas waking up and finding the final Sigil in 9.1.5 instead we have to wait till February which in turn will also have said Sylvanas book right after the 9.2 launch. That's the big issue for me is that they've made a significant play to make sure that Sylvanas is unexplained until you pick up the book and that book is going to be the book that explains everything when everything has already happened narratively.

Obviously, the bigger problem is the issue of the fact that the events of 9.2 Raid Cinematic is already going to be completely questionmark territory for most watchers of the cinematic as key components have been in the recent books that most people have not read.

[draugril]

The book thing can be rather problematic as we see right now with the Sylvanas novel. Delayed, postponed, whatever - due to the "writing process" (whoever believes that). Plus, it excludes the overwhelming majority of players from the story that's happening. I own most of the Warcraft books, but I wish storytelling would take place more in than out of game.

It would help if we had in-game protagonists that weren't the player characters. Blizzard simultaneously makes us the absolute central driving force of their narrative and makes us complete nobodies. That type of storytelling satisfies no one.

[Raetary]

They should bring back mops scenario system for more story content.

[Sondrelk]

They should bring back mops scenario system for more story content.

I mean, they did. You go into scenarios all the time.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I mean, they did. You go into scenarios all the time.

I think he means as what they were in MoP, not some hidden system in questing.

[Raetary]

I mean, they did. You go into scenarios all the time.

They repurposed it for quests, but i want them to bring back the old scenario tab and expand upon it.

[Sondrelk]

They repurposed it for quests, but i want them to bring back the old scenario tab and expand upon it.

How exactly? From my admittedly limited recollection of scenarios in the latter half of MoP it was mostly just being told that you needed to enter X scenario to see what plot happenings were going on elsewhere, whereupon you did and got into a scenario like we have now.

There are definitely times when the MoP scenarios were better at telling stories happening in places other than Pandaria, but from what I remember the system would essentialy be the same if you got a quest to go somewhere, and then got into a regular quest scenario.

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The only thing I can consider a definite advantage to the old system is that you could replay important "questlines" on the same character, whereas now you can only do it once per character.