Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Sondrelk]

True, about this, according to old lore Arthas was pretty much himself during WotLK, do we know for certain the extent of the Jailer's influence on Arthas?

WotLK was hardly a bastion of good writing though, so I wouldnt consider it sacrosanct in that regard. The Frozen Throne was definitely more ambigous on whether Arthas was posessed, under subtle mind-control or whether he had actually just gone completely insane, so in that sense I think the lore of Shadowlands fits it much better.
Also, correct me if I am wrong, but wasnt the whole "Arthas was in complete control" angle something that only really existed in the tie-in novel?

[Dracullus]

WotLK was hardly a bastion of good writing though

TBC/Vanilla as well. Despite all stupid things in current lore I think Suramar, Zandalar and Jaina questline are best pieces of writing in this game. There are of course good or even great side plots, but in general WoW is like Dragon Ball - illogical , but epic story.

True, about this, according to old lore Arthas was pretty much himself during WotLK, do we know for certain the extent of the Jailer's influence on Arthas?

It's not rare when person controlled or manipulated by others "feel pretty much like himself".

[Tiradon]

9.1.5 is not really convincing me to coming back. We already did 5/10M but people feel burn out since they are only raid logging these days, so it seems I'm removing my sub after this month.

Anyhow with the book being delayed to March, it sounds like we won't be getting 9.2 until then.

[NikolaiShade]

WotLK was hardly a bastion of good writing though, so I wouldnt consider it sacrosanct in that regard. The Frozen Throne was definitely more ambigous on whether Arthas was posessed, under subtle mind-control or whether he had actually just gone completely insane, so in that sense I think the lore of Shadowlands fits it much better.
Also, correct me if I am wrong, but wasnt the whole "Arthas was in complete control" angle something that only really existed in the tie-in novel?

The novel strongly implied Arthas was acting of his own free will (iirc the five years sleep was justified as Arthas asserting his dominance on Ner'zhul and the part of himself that was still human), no idea on the canon status of the book right now.
Btw - Blizzard was hinting on Yogg-Saron influencing Arthas.. basically the most intruded mind of Azeroth

[Marlamin]

Keep in mind those Halls of Reflection map textures seem to quite literally be that, it is mildly suspicious that they're not actually properly hooked up, especially since 9.1.5 is in its RC stage now, but alas.

I'm more curious about those LivingWorld animation names that started showing up in 1.14.1/9.1.5 amongst all those FuturePatch animations that I posted about a few weeks ago:

LivingWorldProximityEnter
FlyLivingWorldProximityEnter
LivingWorldProximityLoop
FlyLivingWorldProximityLoop
LivingWorldProximityLeave
FlyLivingWorldProximityLeave

TBC classic does have flying now but I can't imagine why they would need any new animations in that not to mention this only being in 1.14.1 right now, which shares most of its code with 9.1.5. I can't explain them in regards to 9.1.5 content either, so I can't help but think these are actually for 9.2.

I still like my theory where it relates to going near the Shadowlands/Azeroth portal in Torghast/Icecrown in future content, but since I don't pay attention to lore I don't actually know if we're truly "separated" from Azeroth right now (considering we did make Stormwind/Orgrimmar portals via an early quest in Oribos) and if the hole in the world still has any meaning or not. Hopefully someone can expand on that.

[Sondrelk]

9.1.5 is not really convincing me to coming back. We already did 5/10M but people feel burn out since they are only raid logging these days, so it seems I'm removing my sub after this month.

Anyhow with the book being delayed to March, it sounds like we won't be getting 9.2 until then.

Fun story.

9.2 could come anytime 2 months or so after the PTR for the patch shows up. We could get the PTR the second week of November, in which case the patch could come somewhere between late January to mid February, or it could show up mid December, in which case we a early to mid March release is likely.

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The novel strongly implied Arthas was acting of his own free will (iirc the five years sleep was justified as Arthas asserting his dominance on Ner'zhul and the part of himself that was still human), no idea on the canon status of the book right now.
Btw - Blizzard was hinting on Yogg-Saron influencing Arthas.. basically the most intruded mind of Azeroth

It really is down to what lore to disregard, and I would argue that a book that few people likely read is high on the list of things to retcon. I would argue that only the original WC3 campaign, as well as the trailer and ending for WotLK is worth considering something that will always be canon, things like Arthas letting us kill his minions to make us stronger, or his many other Saturday Morning Cartoon moments I think its safe to just assume is currently a schrodingers canon.

As for the latest bit of lore. The tie-in short story released before Shadowlands that dealt with Bolvar sensing his impending fight with Sylvanas definietly lent credence to Arthas being mind controlled. Bolvar constantly talks about how he is actively resisting control, which he describes as as something akin to a constant nagging voice bidding him to be evil. The end of that short story describes part of the fight between him and Sylvanas we see in the trailer, and there we learn that him getting the blue eyes is when he succumbed to the Jailer for a power boost, knowing he would not be able to stop himself from becoming the Lich King proper if he won.

[Varodoc]

Without a pandemic and government lawsuit, Patch 8.2 came out 3 months after 8.1.5 (March-June). 9.2 is not coming out before February.

Since the novel is delayed to March, a release in March is the most likely, at the end of March of course. Or in the first week of April.

In fact I would be convinced 9.2 comes out in February only if I were smoking copium, the delay of the Sylvanas novel from February to end of March makes it blatantly obvious.

[NikolaiShade]

Fun story.

9.2 could come anytime 2 months or so after the PTR for the patch shows up. We could get the PTR the second week of November, in which case the patch could come somewhere between late January to mid February, or it could show up mid December, in which case we a early to mid March release is likely.

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It really is down to what lore to disregard, and I would argue that a book that few people likely read is high on the list of things to retcon. I would argue that only the original WC3 campaign, as well as the trailer and ending for WotLK is worth considering something that will always be canon, things like Arthas letting us kill his minions to make us stronger, or his many other Saturday Morning Cartoon moments I think its safe to just assume is currently a schrodingers canon.

As for the latest bit of lore. The tie-in short story released before Shadowlands that dealt with Bolvar sensing his impending fight with Sylvanas definietly lent credence to Arthas being mind controlled. Bolvar constantly talks about how he is actively resisting control, which he describes as as something akin to a constant nagging voice bidding him to be evil. The end of that short story describes part of the fight between him and Sylvanas we see in the trailer, and there we learn that him getting the blue eyes is when he succumbed to the Jailer for a power boost, knowing he would not be able to stop himself from becoming the Lich King proper if he won.

Honestly the whole thing about the Helm and the Jailer is skecthy at best: the Jailer created the Helm, can use it to control the wielder, boost them as he sees fit but at the same time can't simply stop powering it up. It's all the same with these super powered beings they can never get their mind straight about who to empower and when..

Edit: to claeify, what transpires form the SL trailer and the short story is the Jailer boosting Sylvanas and Bolvar noth while he should have weakened Bolvar to ensure an easy and fast win for Sylvanas

[Raetary]

If we get 9.2 info and PTR on week of or week after FF day, we could see 9.2 on march 1st or 8th.
That's be about 13-15 weeks on the PTR.

Would tie in with the novel too, as by then we'd have the raid already open and be a few chapters into the campaign.

That is, of course, completely ignoring holidays and their effect on development.
So, who knows.

[Dracullus]

If we get 9.2 info and PTR on week of or week after FF day, we could see 9.2 on march 1st or 8th.
That's be about 13-15 weeks on the PTR.

Would tie in with the novel too, as by then we'd have the raid already open and be a few chapters into the campaign.

That is, of course, completely ignoring holidays and their effect on development.
So, who knows.

Why on FF release day? It's too late at this point, ongoing expansion never win against new expansion. Imo Blizzard strategy is rather hook people into subscribing WoW 1-2 week before, by 9.1.5 changes, anniversary event with buffs (and perspective of Legion TW in few weeks), finally big 9.2 reveal (not even PTR, reveals like this always bring people back to current version for some reason). After paying for month it will be harder for some people to try other games that month.

Of course I'm not talking about FF14 fans. It's for casual people that will hear about FF first time or people that just like WoW more, but play other MMOs while they have nothing to do there.

[Raetary]

Why on FF release day?

Because Blizzard always pairs releases with that of other games.
And since they don't have anything to release, they'd probably try to at least divert some attention with an announcement.

[Nyel]

@Nyel

Idk where you’re getting that the Northrend maps automatically mean endgame for 9.2. Could be part of the 9.2 story, sure, but nothing says the story “culminates” there.

It’s my fanfiction surrounding the end of Shadowlands. We still need the link between the Shadowlands and Azeroth. Without it, everything feels pointless. And closing the rift in the sky is at best done in Azeroth and not somewhere else.

I don’t think the Jailer will “win“, that’s something Blizzard couldn’t handle (it’s the same with N‘zoth and why all of our theories went unused) from a writing perspective. We’ll defeat him. Maybe he’s doing some dumb sh*t at the end, but definitely nothing more serious than Sargeras stabbing Azeroth.

Zereth Mortis, Sepulcher etc. is way too unspecific to be the main setting of the final patch in my opinion. Those things are completely unknown and don’t matter at all - at least regarding the knowledge we have about it - it’s not Argus we’re talking about there. And both had no build up at all, which makes it even less likely that the final chapter of Shadowlands is entirely revolving around that. At best the raid will start there and culminate in Azeroth (or vice versa).

At best Zereth Mortis is directly related to Azeroth, is on Azeroth or has a link to Azeroth, that’s the easiest way to incorporate Azeroth in the storyline.

[huth]

Probably the same way we stopped the giant sword in the planet. Just ignore it and pretend everything is okay.

You mean not touching something when that is a logically sound and rational reaction?

We have no way of safely removing the sword and no idea what would happen if we did. Leaving it put is in fact the best thing we can do for now, especially since it doesn't appear to be doing much of anything for the moment.

I'm not sure why people are so intent on potentially killing Azeroth by ripping the sword out.

Keep in mind those Halls of Reflection map textures seem to quite literally be that, it is mildly suspicious that they're not actually properly hooked up, especially since 9.1.5 is in its RC stage now, but alas.

I'll be honest, i'd be completely unsurprised if that just turns out to be a dev faffing about with the textures and nothing comes of it.

Also, there's nothing in the story that suggests we're stuck beyond the initial Maw experience. People even come to the Shadowlands through the portals and have a look around.

[Lady Atia]

Without a pandemic and government lawsuit, Patch 8.2 came out 3 months after 8.1.5 (March-June). 9.2 is not coming out before February.

Since the novel is delayed to March, a release in March is the most likely, at the end of March of course. Or in the first week of April.

In fact I would be convinced 9.2 comes out in February only if I were smoking copium, the delay of the Sylvanas novel from February to end of March makes it blatantly obvious.

They can release the novel after 9.2. without problems - I would guess the delay has more to do with corona shipping/printing issues than anything else tbh. Or in other words, I doubt they want 9.2. be spoiled in a book - but they won't mind it the other way round. Actually, getting the ingame cliffhangery story first would fit with Blizzards way of doing things lmao.

[micwini]

What if the changes to the halls of reflection map is just Blizzard removing/changing a piece of terrain that looked like a penis/vagina.

[Lady Atia]

You mean not touching something when that is a logically sound and rational reaction?

We have no way of safely removing the sword and no idea what would happen if we did. Leaving it put is in fact the best thing we can do for now, especially since it doesn't appear to be doing much of anything for the moment.

I'm not sure why people are so intent on potentially killing Azeroth by ripping the sword out.



I'll be honest, i'd be completely unsurprised if that just turns out to be a dev faffing about with the textures and nothing comes of it.

Also, there's nothing in the story that suggests we're stuck beyond the initial Maw experience. People even come to the Shadowlands through the portals and have a look around.

Also if they do a world revamp with 10.0 they can still use the sword in a potential Silithus quest line. How cool would it be if the sword's precense was spawning some fel spirits and they start attack the old gods' minions there - basically mirroring the original cosmic conflict between fel and void on a smaller scale. I would love a remake of AQ40 - they could even use the new HD quiraji mounts there.

[TheFirstOnes]

True, about this, according to old lore Arthas was pretty much himself during WotLK, do we know for certain the extent of the Jailer's influence on Arthas?

9.1 interview confirmed Arthas blocked out the Jailer’s influence, pissing him off.

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It’s my fanfiction surrounding the end of Shadowlands. We still need the link between the Shadowlands and Azeroth. Without it, everything feels pointless. And closing the rift in the sky is at best done in Azeroth and not somewhere else.

I don’t think the Jailer will “win“, that’s something Blizzard couldn’t handle (it’s the same with N‘zoth and why all of our theories went unused) from a writing perspective. We’ll defeat him. Maybe he’s doing some dumb sh*t at the end, but definitely nothing more serious than Sargeras stabbing Azeroth.

Zereth Mortis, Sepulcher etc. is way too unspecific to be the main setting of the final patch in my opinion. Those things are completely unknown and don’t matter at all - at least regarding the knowledge we have about it - it’s not Argus we’re talking about there. And both had no build up at all, which makes it even less likely that the final chapter of Shadowlands is entirely revolving around that. At best the raid will start there and culminate in Azeroth (or vice versa).

At best Zereth Mortis is directly related to Azeroth, is on Azeroth or has a link to Azeroth, that’s the easiest way to incorporate Azeroth in the storyline.

I really don’t want Azeroth to be Zereth Mortis. It is so uninteresting and lazy.

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While Azeroth does seem important to the Jailer, and while the Primus also makes note of it, there’s absolutely no mention Azeroth is where the Sepulcher is.

If anything, I think she is what holds reality together, as if she’s basically Azathoth.

[Fahrad Wagner]

9.1 interview confirmed Arthas blocked out the Jailer’s influence, pissing him off.

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I really don’t want Azeroth to be Zereth Mortis. It is so uninteresting and lazy.

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While Azeroth does seem important to the Jailer, and while the Primus also makes note of it, there’s absolutely no mention Azeroth is where the Sepulcher is.

If anything, I think she is what holds reality together, as if she’s basically Azathoth.

Maybe the Sepulcher is at the very core of the planet. Or maybe it's in a totally different plane and Azeroth is as you said, just what keeps reality together.

[TheFirstOnes]

What I WOULD love to see is the Sepulcher raid leading into us either going to Azeroth itself or having Azeroth be pulled to the Sepulcher from a massive tear in Reality, and we basically battle Zovaal with Azeroth behind us.

That would be cool asf to see.

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Maybe the Sepulcher is at the very core of the planet. Or maybe it's in a totally different plane and Azeroth is as you said, just what keeps reality together.

Nah, that imo seems too generic. Besides, wouldn’t Azeroth itself, and Magni by extension, take note of it? I think the Sepulcher and the Realm of the First Ones are separate, hell I want them to be separate. 8.3 was on Azeroth, and that patch was uninspired as fuck. I don’t want another final patch there. It’s lazy.

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Like, when I say the Sepulcher and Zereth Mortis need to be forbidden, I want them to be FORBIDDEN! Like I want them to be actual areas in the Cosmos we have no info about, I want them to be their own thing with their own creative design. Imagine seeing the First Ones’ architecture and geometry in its prime! Imagine going to vaults within the Sepulcher of each Cosmic Power with First One areas and Magic’s all around them. That would be so fucking sweet.

Azeroth can be the other MAIN focus, but I don’t want it to be the main main area of 9.2. 9.0’s prepatch was on Northrend as the MAIN area, and 8.0 was literally all Azeroth already.

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Don’t you guys think it’s time we see what the First Ones are truly capable of?

[Lahis]

Edit: to claeify, what transpires form the SL trailer and the short story is the Jailer boosting Sylvanas and Bolvar noth while he should have weakened Bolvar to ensure an easy and fast win for Sylvanas

At that point, who won didn't matter to Jailer. If Bolvar won, Jailer would have reqained control of Lich King and Scourge, and could've used them as originally planned. Sylvanas was originally the plan B that got to play out in the end.