Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Makabreska]

FF does a pretty good job with it but they also give you everything in game without a bunch of novels to understand the whole deal.

But do they also have a 20y+ of lore to deal with? Because exhaustion and power creep in these kind of situation are a well known problem.

[ParanoiD84]

I have never actually heard anyone say the storytelling in FFXIV is great, just that its better than WoW, which is hardly great praise.

It's nothing amazing but i guess it's pretty good as far as mmo story goes.

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But do they also have a 20y+ of lore to deal with? Because exhaustion and power creep in these kind of situation are a well known problem.

Fair point too perhaps they need some fresh blood with new ideas. Some kind of reset perhaps?

[GR8GODZILLAGOD]

I have never actually heard anyone say the storytelling in FFXIV is great, just that its better than WoW, which is hardly great praise.

There's been much praise for XIV's story. Particularly with Shadowbringers.

[Makabreska]

Fair point too perhaps they need some fresh blood with new ideas. Some kind of reset perhaps?

Time skip would be an opportunity. It's a common thing to do a soft reset when story and characters accumulate too much over the years. Like Crisis on Infinite Earths from DC.

[TheFirstOnes]

I mean just look up pyromancer for one example of many one of the biggest lore guys for wow on twitch and youtube he pretty much gave up on wow entirely because of the lore and i believe he turned his entire channel and passion into ff 14 instead removing wow related stuff, you can search for him raging for wasting a large part of his life to wow's lore.

Here is a little tease but the full video is out there.


Then there is entire huge forum threads online going deep into the issues of wow's lore should be easy to search for, think there is plenty even here on the subforum.

It's pretty depressing imo as i also used to atleast enjoy the lore but that was a long time ago now, nothing against those that still enjoy it though and i hope it will improve but not with the current writers that's for sure.

I don’t mean to be that guy, but Pyro doesn’t know WoW lore for shit lol.

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Zereth mortis could be anything, we literally have no idea what it is.
It could be a zone filled with diverse creatures and what have you. It could be a color inverted Oribos. It could be a shack floating in space with the pincode needed to make Azerorh into the megazord.

I assume it will be a zone filled with Devourers, explaining why they exist in the in-between as well as what purpose they serve. But really there is nothing to go on for what Zereth Mortis actually is.

Ik it can be anything. I just don’t want it to be Azeroth.

[ParanoiD84]

Time skip would be an opportunity. It's a common thing to do a soft reset when story and characters accumulate too much over the years. Like Crisis on Infinite Earths from DC.

Yeah for sure i could see something like that work too.

[Shoggoth]

Fair point too perhaps they need some fresh blood with new ideas. Some kind of reset perhaps?

What they need is to fire the whole writing team. I have seen amateur writers doing better content than these "professionals".

[Sondrelk]

There's been much praise for XIV's story. Particularly with Shadowbringers.

I guess it could be. Would need to ask someone unbiased about it, not sure how much I trust random players to judge when that game is riding a massive wave of anti-WoW sentiment. Could be absolutely outstanding writing, could be good or decent writing being proppep up for players who will praise anything in FFXIV so long as it makes WoW look worse in comparision.

Last time I checked though it definitely seemed like FFXIV was somewhat unique in that it completely dropped hte pretense of the player being just a random jobber, and instead just tells the story as if it is a single-player game which does have positives as a story, but does kinda undercut it as a good MMO-story.

[Makabreska]

What they need is to fire the whole writing team. I have seen amateur writers doing better content than these "professionals".

Just fire everyone 4Head.

[Sondrelk]

What they need is to fire the whole writing team. I have seen amateur writers doing better content than these "professionals".

The problem probably isnt the writers. Far more likely that the problem is a systemic issue with WoWs development cycle. Expansions are not written as complete stories, but instead as vague outlines that are gradually filled as new assets gets created.
8.3 for instance couldnt be changed massively because the assets for the patch was already created, and developers had already started work on it, and for that matter the expansion that would follow.

Imagine the old Lucy and the chocolates sketch, just instead of chocolates its the writers desperately trying to cobble a script together that is halfway decent. Each misstep only pushing them further and further behind until some catastrophic lore stillbirth happens like what we got at the end of BfA.

[Shoggoth]

Just fire everyone 4Head.

I'm not sure what you mean. You think they're doing fine?

The problem probably isnt the writers. Far more likely that the problem is a systemic issue with WoWs development cycle. Expansions are not written as complete stories, but instead as vague outlines that are gradually filled as new assets gets created.
8.3 for instance couldnt be changed massively because the assets for the patch was already created, and developers had already started work on it, and for that matter the expansion that would follow.

Imagine the old Lucy and the chocolates sketch, just instead of chocolates its the writers desperately trying to cobble a script together that is halfway decent. Each misstep only pushing them further and further behind until some catastrophic lore stillbirth happens like what we got at the end of BfA.

So if magically WoW changed the way its expansions are made, and the writers had total control over it, you think the current team would do a good job? Would you bet on it?

[Sondrelk]

I'm not sure what you mean. You think they're doing fine?



So if magically WoW changed the way its expansions are made, and the writers had total control over it, you think the current team would do a good job? Would you bet on it?

I think that if the writers got free reign to just start over from scratch, and I am talking way back to the original WoW Vanilla and got a few years to hack out a good script then they could create a great story.
The problems at this point isnt just that the story isnt being given enough time to grow, but that it's built on a rickety tower of bad writing decisions over the years.
I am sure that given the time and limitless use of assets teh writers could createa really damn good old god storyline for instance, one that has us go underground to find the original Aqir, or get mind controlled and see the true extent of what an old god can do if left unopposed on a planet.

The writers are writing in suboptimal conditions, on terrible narrative footing, in a medium that really doesnt support stories of this size and scope. Their best option is to scale the stories way back to more reasonable stories that require less unique assets and time spent explaining. A story that concerns a group of Forsaken and Humans wanting to resettle a decrepit city in reclaimed Plaguelands could probably be written damn well, but that is because it requires very little buildup, it is all but unhindered by a need for unique assets, and the story can be set up, told, and completed within a single patch, requiring little followup.

[Marlamin]

9.1.5 background download is up!

[GR8GODZILLAGOD]

The problem probably isnt the writers. Far more likely that the problem is a systemic issue with WoWs development cycle. Expansions are not written as complete stories, but instead as vague outlines that are gradually filled as new assets gets created.
8.3 for instance couldnt be changed massively because the assets for the patch was already created, and developers had already started work on it, and for that matter the expansion that would follow.

Imagine the old Lucy and the chocolates sketch, just instead of chocolates its the writers desperately trying to cobble a script together that is halfway decent. Each misstep only pushing them further and further behind until some catastrophic lore stillbirth happens like what we got at the end of BfA.

Especially when Blizz also changes the direction of the game and story due to either backlash or internal problems.

[Sondrelk]

Especially when Blizz also changes the direction of the game and story due to either backlash or internal problems.

Yeah that is probably the biggest issue they face. The plotline starts with a decent idea, and because of limitations of the medium they need to also make the middle and end.
If the story then gets a backlash then not only are they stick with what they wrote, they also need to salvage a response based on whatever assets are already made or in development.
If the reaction to the backlash fails then they again have even less chance to salvage it as they are now stuck with the initial bad writing, the cobbled together reaction, and are now left to write and ending that will likely have to lead into a plotline that no longer supports the initial storyline.

All it takes is one misstep when the writers try to tell an in-depth story over a long time for the entire house of cards to start collapsing in on itself. Each misstep leaves less room for error with less resources available, and each iteration of the story builds the consequences for the fallout higher.

Look at the Tyrande storyline for instance. Blizzard likely concieved that almost solely as a reaction to Teldrassil burning, but each time they built on it, whether by questlines or by omission like the Nazjatar storyline, it creates further problems that they cannot remedy effectively, each time they try to make something good from it the storyline just ends up slipping furhter into farce, and suddenly you end up in Ardenweald, and the attempt to salvage the Teldrassil plotline is now a convoluted mess that drags an entire zones worth of buildup down with it, all because in the end the story couldnt actually be changed.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I'm not sure what you mean. You think they're doing fine?

Better then what this place thinks but most complaints seem to be more about gameplay and well content drought but....this is small compared to MoP to WoD and WoD to Legion(As in the last big content patch to next expansion I mean).

[Shoggoth]

I think that if the writers got free reign to just start over from scratch, and I am talking way back to the original WoW Vanilla and got a few years to hack out a good script then they could create a great story.
The problems at this point isnt just that the story isnt being given enough time to grow, but that it's built on a rickety tower of bad writing decisions over the years.
I am sure that given the time and limitless use of assets teh writers could createa really damn good old god storyline for instance, one that has us go underground to find the original Aqir, or get mind controlled and see the true extent of what an old god can do if left unopposed on a planet.

The writers are writing in suboptimal conditions, on terrible narrative footing, in a medium that really doesnt support stories of this size and scope. Their best option is to scale the stories way back to more reasonable stories that require less unique assets and time spent explaining. A story that concerns a group of Forsaken and Humans wanting to resettle a decrepit city in reclaimed Plaguelands could probably be written damn well, but that is because it requires very little buildup, it is all but unhindered by a need for unique assets, and the story can be set up, told, and completed within a single patch, requiring little followup.

I get what you're saying and I respect it but I completely disagree with it.

[TheFirstOnes]

I hope it's with Dungeons

Prolly 1, or 2.

[therumblings]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...112/1118580/53

Thankfully the old starting gear is going to still be in the game after all

[Three Faced Goddess]

One thing that I realized is a lot of people think we know how we stop Not-Zenos Zovaal, but nobody seems to have an idea for how we fix that gaping hole in the sky Sylvanas made.

Guessing for that we'd probably need to fix the Helm of Domination, maybe the key to that is in Icecrown and the updated Northrend maps are for the "Covenant Campaign" of 9.3 instead of the raid of 9.3?

This has been my hypothesis since the beginning of Shadowlands. We reforge the Helm free of the Jailer's influence with the Primus then crown a new Lich Monarch which stops the rampaging Scourge, then we defeat the Jailer and seal the rift (not necessarily in order). Sylvanas will probably be redeemed some time during those events and/or become the new Arbiter.

Its easy shit, you can bet finger that Runecarver just gonna end up reforging Helmet in his design, and this mcguffin should separate realms.

That's what I thought, though I'm admittedly worried Blizzard will just forget about it.

In the (apparently) newly updated Halls of Reflections none the less. The real question is: who will wear it? Sylvanas? The Primus? Anduin? or maybe... BOLVAR!

Oh gods, we don't have many good Lich King candidates do we?

I almost wonder whether Arthas will be the one to take the Jailer's place along with the Helm of Domination actually. It would actually fit his character to sacrifice himself fully. Let us afterall not forget that the last thing he said before he picked up Frostmourne was how he was willing to shoulder and curse to save his people.

It would be considering that Shadowlands lore basically made almost everything evil he did "LOL Jailer" and he was never evil by his own agency. Oh boy did he bear that curse. Sadly, it cost him and Lordaeron everything. Oh such delicious tragedy.

It's fairly likely that we'll reforge the Helm as it's the easiest way to wrap up two of the biggest problems. Though I still have my worries.