Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Hyrja]

For anyone wondering when 9.2 will be, major content patches need around 3 months of PTR testing before being released to the live servers.
For example, 8.3 was deployed on the PTR on October 7, 2019 and released to the live servers on January 14, 2020.

So let's say Blizzard announces it late November, a few weeks after 9.1.5, that means late February or early March. Ideally, it should come out just before Blizzcononline so they can say "major content patch 9.2 just hit live servers a week ago blabla" and focus all their time on talking about 10.0 during the presentation.

[Sondrelk]

Don't get me wrong I'd like a world revamp unfortunately what slim hope I had of a revamp has gone the moment they announced the new leveling system.
About guessing the next expac plot here's mine: someone/something from SL gets to azeroth, changes the rules of death/life or threatens to do so, and a splinter faction of the covenants get to Azeroth to stop it, Kyrian lead by Uther for the alliance and venthyr lead by Kael'thas for the horde.
Btw it would be a nice moment to add necromancers/artificers (serious tinkers) too if Blizz feels brave

I would argeu the changes to levelling makes a world revamp more likely, not less. Currently the levelling path for new players takes them through a somewhat altered version of BfA levelling. At least for Alliance it is a pretty much perfect levelling progression narratively, but if we are to assume Blizzard will keep the max level at 60, and make the previous expansion into the 10-50 levelling then 10.0 will have massive issues considering just how much of a stretch it is to ask new players to immediately know who teh Lich King Bolvar is, and why they are going to Icecrown and what have you.

A world revamp with some new levelling could create a 10-50 levelling path that meshes much more seamlessly with the Exile's reach storyline, sets up what story new players needs to know, and which could then much more easily lead into the max level stuff afterwards.
You wouldnt even need a fully revamped levelling like what Cata did, 2-3 zones for each faction would be enough, and this would further make it easier to still allow the old Cata levelling alongside for Chromie time.

[LordKharon]

For a new player it sadly doesnt matter much, basically all content past the new starter island is incomprehensible from a story-setup perspective. No matter what expansion you play you will not recognize any of the protagonists and why they are doing stuff...

[Sondrelk]

For a new player it sadly doesnt matter much, basically all content past the new starter island is incomprehensible from a story-setup perspective. No matter what expansion you play you will not recognize any of the protagonists and why they are doing stuff...

You should still try to ease new players into the story instead of throwing them into the deep end like what would happen if Shadowlands was the 10-50 storyline. Exile's each establishes very basic stuff like what the Alliance and Horde is, and shows a couple of races that are a part of them. The concepts are really only alien to someone who has no concept of what high Fantasy is. If they know just basic fantasy tropes like the ones that got established by Tolkien then Exile's reach is perfectly reasonable.
What the story does lack however is a strong continuation on this concept that can establish other basic stuff, like the difference between the Eastern Kingdom and Kalimdor, why the Alliance and Horde are enemies, and generally basic stuff like where Dwarves live, or why Forsaken are a thing you see running around.

[LordKharon]

You are right. Blizzard could have at least explained the story setups of the differnet expansions before starting them (just display 1 page with a few paragraphs of text explaining the basics before the first quest). Would be very easy to do and help a lot i think.

[Sarethion]

So let's say Blizzard announces it late November, a few weeks after 9.1.5, that means late February or early March.

Don't forget that they needed about 2 months to get the 9.1 PTR up and running after the Blizzconline announcement - even if they announce 9.2 in November, it's entirely possible that the PTR won't start until December or even January. With that in mind, I find February quite unlikely.

If I were to guess, I think 9.2 will come out in mid to late March or even early April.

[Sondrelk]

You are right. Blizzard could have at least explained the story setups of the differnet expansions before starting them (just display 1 page with a few paragraphs of text explaining the basics before the first quest). Would be very easy to do and help a lot i think.

The problem is still that some expansions would likely need a lot of backstory to even begin explaining the basic concepts.
If you want to make a storyline with Yrel invading and the Mag'har responding then you need to explain the backstory of the orcs, the Draenei, what the light is, and what Bronze dragons and by extension what the dragonflights are before you could even begin explaining how Yrel is actually time travelling through dimensions after being converted into a fanatic by an extra fancy windchime.

A revamped 10-50 levelling could take care of all this boring baseline stuff. Explaining basic concepts of the cosmic powers, how the different various races got to where they are now, and problems they face.

A Forsaken storyline could for instance explain how they are risen zombies that gained freedom from the Scourge hivemind, and how they have tried to make a new life in the ruins of their old ones. It could then also briefly explain who Sylvanas is, and why some Forsaken are still loyal, and why try to distance themselves.
Then when the story needs then you can start from the assumption that everyone already knows all the basic stuff about Forsaken, and you can go straight into Forsaken/Human relations, or extremist factions within or without.

[TheFirstOnes]

Just revamp world, then add entire dragon continent later! Then put Sarg, the Big Bad, in a mini-raid! Then let it be suddenly Light vs Void! Then go full space odyssey, because people weren't tired of grand conflicts! So simple!

What you just proposed is an absolute and unrealistic mess of scale and factions involved. Also lol at people still wanting Siege of SW after all these years.

Sargeras isn't the Big Bad, and Light and Shadow's been clearly hinted at since Legion, and the Death plot seems to be leading towards it. "5 keys to open the way. 5 torches to light our path".

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I'm sorry, are you guys stuck in 2016? or?

[Raetary]

this is a parody right?

Unfortunately not.

This isn't even the most ridiculous stuff i have seen them post.

[Makabreska]

Sargeras isn't the Big Bad, and Light and Shadow's been clearly hinted at since Legion, and the Death plot seems to be leading towards it. "5 keys to open the way. 5 torches to light our path".

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I'm sorry, are you guys stuck in 2016? or?

I am afraid to ask where you are stuck, because what you proposed is impossible from the development standpoint (world revamp + full continent added later on) and a complete mess from story and cohesion perspective. You literally just threw all the speculated 10.0 content, plot lines and characters from recent past into one bag and rattled it.

[TheFirstOnes]

I am afraid to ask where you are stuck, because what you proposed is impossible from the development standpoint (world revamp + full continent added later on) and a complete mess from story and cohesion perspective. You literally just threw all the speculated 10.0 content, plot lines and characters from recent past into one bag and rattled it.

I mean, world revamps legit don't have to take place over 1 Expac's development, hell you're literally seeing HD versions of Human buildings get leaked over the course of SL, and even older zones such as Arathi got a total overhaul during BFA. So, I don't see the issue here.

And how is it a mess? BFA was 3 expacs in 1, and my proposal is legit just Light and Shadow, with the Void plot taking reign over the later course of the expac.

[Sondrelk]

I mean, world revamps legit don't have to take place over 1 Expac's development, hell you're literally seeing HD versions of Human buildings get leaked over the course of SL, and even older zones such as Arathi got a total overhaul during BFA. So, I don't see the issue here.

And how is it a mess? BFA was 3 expacs in 1, and my proposal is legit just Light and Shadow, with the Void plot taking reign over the later course of the expac.

The HD assets added piecemeal over the expansions is a reason why a world revamp on the scale of Cats is feasible, not that the game can do both that and a continent on top.

[Nyel]

https://www.twitch.tv/towelliee/clip...Tc-NfIhrS5IaRo

Towelliee made a comment about 10.0.

He made that several days ago. I still don’t know what he wants to say. Very different? In what kind of way? Setting? Story? Gameplay. I honestly have no idea what this means. I doubt the gameplay will be different, so the setting? But Shadowlands was already very different. So the story?

They cannot change the gameplay loop. I doubt world quests, mythic+ or raiding is going away, so what else will be different? The only thing I could imagine is that they basically remove or replace the leveling process and scale the entire world like Elder Scrolls Online does.

[Makabreska]

And how is it a mess? BFA was 3 expacs in 1, and my proposal is legit just Light and Shadow, with the Void plot taking reign over the later course of the expac.

In this "just Light vs Shadow" you crammed together usual Horde and Alliance, Scarlet Crusade, Draenor zones and characters, dragons, several new factions and plenty of new figures from Dragon Isles (because new zones always bring these), Farahlon with their set of factions and characters, Wrathion, Sarg, Pantheon, Light with Yrel and others, Void with it's minions and space pirates (lol). So yes, you threw in all major factions and characters from three expansions pre-SL. And then you called that "It's so easy".

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He made that several days ago. I still don’t know what he wants to say. Very different? In what kind of way? Setting? Story? Gameplay. I honestly have no idea what this means. I doubt the gameplay will be different, so the setting? But Shadowlands was already very different. So the story?

They cannot change the gameplay loop. I doubt world quests, mythic+ or raiding is going away, so what else will be different? The only thing I could imagine is that they basically remove or replace the leveling process and scale the entire world like Elder Scrolls Online does.

He is obviously baiting to create buzz and clicks. And removal of M+/raiding is really not a matter of doubt. It just won't happen.

[Sondrelk]

He made that several days ago. I still don’t know what he wants to say. Very different? In what kind of way? Setting? Story? Gameplay. I honestly have no idea what this means. I doubt the gameplay will be different, so the setting? But Shadowlands was already very different. So the story?

They cannot change the gameplay loop. I doubt world quests, mythic+ or raiding is going away, so what else will be different? The only thing I could imagine is that they basically remove or replace the leveling process and scale the entire world like Elder Scrolls Online does.

It's a deliberately vague statement made to make it seem like he is actually saying something.
The statement would be equally true whether Timewalking is made into a core feature, the story takes place on a smaller scale, or even if it's something as simple as removing stuff like Soulbinds or Azerite talents.

No matter what comes, unless it's literally the same exact stuff we have now he would be correct, and so can reap the benefits of being in the know without actually having said anything substantial.

He did the exact same thing for 9.1. said it had something that layers would enjoy, which would have been true for pretty much anything. Even basic hotfixes would have made the statement true.

[Nyel]

He is obviously baiting to create buzz and clicks. And removal of M+/raiding is really not a matter of doubt. It just won't happen.

I mean, even if he’s baiting we can think about it. And the only thing they can change without removing the entire gameplay loop is scaling the entire game. This way you retain all your other features, but at the same time you keep all the content relevant and available. Something like this should have been done a decade ago, instead they choose to devaluate every former content as soon as a new content patch / tier is introduced. If they start scaling the entire game adequately (and they tried and tested this in Legion and BfA), they would solve one of their biggest issues: content delivery.

So besides that, I have no clue what he means. We already have a super strange setting in Shadowlands, something even weirder is pretty much impossible. We already have messy storytelling, so something different won’t happen. They won’t get rid of very prominent gameplay mechanics like mythic+ or raiding. So what I said above is basically the only thing that will change the entire game by not changing anything at all in the end.

[Fahrad Wagner]

The HD assets added piecemeal over the expansions is a reason why a world revamp on the scale of Cats is feasible, not that the game can do both that and a continent on top.

Exactly. It's almost like they would have been working on it since WoD, and this is why it's realistic.

It's a deliberately vague statement made to make it seem like he is actually saying something.
The statement would be equally true whether Timewalking is made into a core feature, the story takes place on a smaller scale, or even if it's something as simple as removing stuff like Soulbinds or Azerite talents.

No matter what comes, unless it's literally the same exact stuff we have now he would be correct, and so can reap the benefits of being in the know without actually having said anything substantial.

He did the exact same thing for 9.1. said it had something that layers would enjoy, which would have been true for pretty much anything. Even basic hotfixes would have made the statement true.

As usual I completely agree with Sondrelk, this is precisely what it is.

I mean, even if he’s baiting we can think about it. And the only thing they can change without removing the entire gameplay loop is scaling the entire game. This way you retain all your other features, but at the same time you keep all the content relevant and available. Something like this should have been done a decade ago, instead they choose to devaluate every former content as soon as a new content patch / tier is introduced. If they start scaling the entire game adequately (and they tried and tested this in Legion and BfA), they would solve one of their biggest issues: content delivery.

So besides that, I have no clue what he means. We already have a super strange setting in Shadowlands, something even weirder is pretty much impossible. We already have messy storytelling, so something different won’t happen. They won’t get rid of very prominent gameplay mechanics like mythic+ or raiding. So what I said above is basically the only thing that will change the entire game by not changing anything at all in the end.

We can, I mean it's part of the fun! I'm still hoping for a revamp for 10.0. Too many pieces of the puzzle fit nicely together... or I am making them fit hehe

[Makabreska]

So besides that, I have no clue what he means.

He means nothing, because he doesn't know anything. Y'all think that Blizz employees constantly break NDA just to feed him info.

[Nyel]

He means nothing, because he doesn't know anything. Y'all think that Blizz employers constantly break NDA just to feed him info.

Just forget that he said this and try to answer the question raised. What could be done completely different in 10.0 that hasn’t been done before.

[NikolaiShade]

Just forget that he said this and try to answer the question raised. What could be done completely different in 10.0 that hasn’t been done before.

crazy idea: Blizzard could introduce cross-faction PvE, that would be pretty different (and useful too... maybe)