Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Lady Atia]

In thinking about it I wonder if the reason why Blizzard cancelled Blizzconline isnt because they have nothing, but because they don't want to put all their eggs into one basket.
February is a long time away, and I imagine that when Blizzard first decided on that date it was more to do with assuming they would be in 9.3 by that point.

By cancelling Blizzconline Blizzard is opening themselves up to doing whatever whenever they can and depending on when hype is needed the most. Otherwise me might be hitting another unexpected roadblock and Blizzard can do jack shit but sit around waiting for February when all teh announcements are lined up.
Just consider for instance if even 9.2 is "cancelled", or generally something more akin to the Dragon Soul patch where its just the bare minimum needed to wrap up the expansion. In such a case making the consumers wait around for months waiting in silence would likely do more harm than it could if Blizzard could instead just have a regular Blizzard announcement whenver to announce 10.0.

For that matter this goes well with other announcements. Maybe Overwatch 2 is delayed yet again and Blizzard has nothing to announce. With Blizzcon they would just end up with a Diablo Immortals situation again, whereas if they have cancelled the event they can announce stuff when they have the most to gain from it.


tl;dr: Blizzard cancelling the event isnt necessarily because they have little to announce, but might be because its more favorable to announce stuff at different times instead of being limited to a single event that might be too late, or even too early for the developers liking.

Oh no, now you cursed it. The Dragonsoul patch was the worst thing that could happen to a great second half of the Expansion. Instead of getting a War of the Ancients raid and a final one with unique boss models .... well we got what we got. That was almost as bad as the botching of WoD ...

[Sondrelk]

Oh no, now you cursed it. The Dragonsoul patch was the worst thing that could happen to a great second half of the Expansion. Instead of getting a War of the Ancients raid and a final one with unique boss models .... well we got what we got. That was almost as bad as the botching of WoD ...

Dragon Soul really is the odd one out I feel. If anything because Blizzard would have had possibly one of the most epic raids in the game if they simply made the dungeons a part of it.
Travelling forward in time to defeat Murozond, backwards to help Illidan defeat Azshara and Mannoroth, then back to the present for that absolutely amazing fight against Archbishop Benedictus.

Blizzard could have had a fantastic raid at least if they simply took all the good ideas from the dungeon and used them to replace all the filler in the raid.
I mean honestly, why have two bosses in similar arenas that do nothing for the plot when the dungeon gets a payoff to the plotline of the church of the holy light being invaded by fanatics?

[Gaidax]

In thinking about it I wonder if the reason why Blizzard cancelled Blizzconline isnt because they have nothing, but because they don't want to put all their eggs into one basket.

They canceled it because they are afraid of yet another controversy. With the whole ongoing lawsuit and potential for sabotage by employees/fans - they don't need that crap.

I imagine once the dust settles in a year or two, they will get it back on.

[Sondrelk]

They canceled it because they are afraid of yet another controversy. With the whole ongoing lawsuit and potential for sabotage by employees/fans - they don't need that crap.

I imagine once the dust settles in a year or two, they will get it back on.

I don't doubt that they did it to prevent controversy, but I wonder if the one they are more afraid of is taht Blizzconline will backfire not because of the scandal, but because like the previous one it is just kinda underwhelming.

Blizzard needs some goodwill, and I have to wonder whether Blizzconline is too restrictive for that. Usually it works brilliantly because they can draw a crowd and focus on exrtaneous panels like the amazing music panel they had a couple years back. But with Blizzconline they can't do that, they need to build hype on content alone, and while I don't doubt that they have something to show at least, I do have to wonder whether they would rather just divide the panels up into individual announcements that give more information on their own than what they would have done if they had to share space, or generally be forced to be relevant before they are ready.

Consider for instance last Blizzconline with the 9.1 announcement. Wouldnt that be better if it was instead a series of really in-depth stuff rather than the bare minimum needed to fill the panel timeslot?

[Nyel]

February is a long time away, and I imagine that when Blizzard first decided on that date it was more to do with assuming they would be in 9.3 by that point.

By cancelling Blizzconline Blizzard is opening themselves up to doing whatever whenever they can and depending on when hype is needed the most. Otherwise me might be hitting another unexpected roadblock and Blizzard can do jack shit but sit around waiting for February when all teh announcements are lined up.
Just consider for instance if even 9.2 is "cancelled", or generally something more akin to the Dragon Soul patch where its just the bare minimum needed to wrap up the expansion. In such a case making the consumers wait around for months waiting in silence would likely do more harm than it could if Blizzard could instead just have a regular Blizzard announcement whenver to announce 10.0.

Pretty sure they already knew about the delays of 9.2 and 9.3 (assuming there ever was a 9.3 planned) when they talked about Blizzconline 2022. They first announced it end of May, just five months ago. 9.1 was still on the PTR and one month away from launch.

I think nobody was really expecting the 9.2 announcement on Blizzconline, right? That would be just insane and make the gap between 9.1 and 9.2 almost an entire year.

It's true though that the different games are not really forced to have to show something, but was that ever the case? I remember Blizzcons were presented stuff was pretty low for several games, e.g. Heroes of the Storm or Starcraft. This could have been a similar situation.

Remember, Diablo Immortal is about to launch in Q1/22. That alone could be a huge part of Blizzconline already (just to fill it with content, how players liked that doesn't really matter in such a format). I just cannot imagine that they have absolutely nothing to show in regards of their other games. For Diablo IV they just could stitch something together with development updates and even a new trailer etc. There is something to show, I'm sure of that. Even if it's just concept art. And they could have reduced it to a 1 or 2 hour event as well. Heck, have interviews with devs and sell them during the event, that alone could be half of it. So the complete cancellation - in my opinion - wasn't due to lack of things to show.

- - - Updated - - -

They canceled it because they are afraid of yet another controversy. With the whole ongoing lawsuit and potential for sabotage by employees/fans - they don't need that crap.

I imagine once the dust settles in a year or two, they will get it back on.

What sabotage? Make it a pre-recorded stream and not something live, you could prevent every kind of negativity that way.

[Lady Atia]

Dragon Soul really is the odd one out I feel. If anything because Blizzard would have had possibly one of the most epic raids in the game if they simply made the dungeons a part of it.
Travelling forward in time to defeat Murozond, backwards to help Illidan defeat Azshara and Mannoroth, then back to the present for that absolutely amazing fight against Archbishop Benedictus.

Blizzard could have had a fantastic raid at least if they simply took all the good ideas from the dungeon and used them to replace all the filler in the raid.
I mean honestly, why have two bosses in similar arenas that do nothing for the plot when the dungeon gets a payoff to the plotline of the church of the holy light being invaded by fanatics?

Yeah, merging the 3 Dungeons with Dragonsoul would have done wonders to it. That said, I still think that keeping Cataclysm as 4 Tier Expansion similiar to Wrath would have made it on par with Legion. Something like BWD = To4W = BoT > Firelands = Abyssal Maw > Endtime and War of the Ancients (could have been one raid as both would be bronze dragon based) > more polished Dragonsoul/Siege of Wyrmrest would have had a great story flow, and helped with the long content draught at the end of Cataclysm.

[Sondrelk]

Pretty sure they already knew about the delays of 9.2 and 9.3 (assuming there ever was a 9.3 planned) when they talked about Blizzconline 2022. They first announced it end of May, just five months ago. 9.1 was still on the PTR and one month away from launch.

I think nobody was really expecting the 9.2 announcement on Blizzconline, right? That would be just insane and make the gap between 9.1 and 9.2 almost an entire year.

It's true though that the different games are not really forced to have to show something, but was that ever the case? I remember Blizzcons were presented stuff was pretty low for several games, e.g. Heroes of the Storm or Starcraft. This could have been a similar situation.

More importantly is the fact that Blizzcon is already a restrictive format for announcing stuff, and Blizzconline even more so. On proper live Blizzcons this can be hidden better by coasting on the sheer hype, whereas on Blizzconline its really just an announcement.

It's not that I necessarily doubt that Blizzard couldnt make it beefy enough to warrant hype, or that they couldnt announce 10.0 with all the pomp and circumstance one would expect. I just instead wonder if Blizzard are more keen on instead parsing out the content they would normally announce over a longer period to stymie the worst of what is likely to become a particularly awful post-expansion drought.


You can afterall only reveal the zones for the first time once, and by placing most of it on Blizzcon you do get a sizeable chunk of hype, but hype alone fades fairly quickly, so it might be in Blizzards best interest to space all the reveals out over a longer time.
Maybe the 10.0 trailer is revealed standalone sometime after 9.2, and then a couple weeks after we get the reveal trailer alongside a deep dive. Then a good few weeks after that we get a really beefy zone announcement.

[Nyel]

More importantly is the fact that Blizzcon is already a restrictive format for announcing stuff, and Blizzconline even more so. On proper live Blizzcons this can be hidden better by coasting on the sheer hype, whereas on Blizzconline its really just an announcement.

It's not that I necessarily doubt that Blizzard couldnt make it beefy enough to warrant hype, or that they couldnt announce 10.0 with all the pomp and circumstance one would expect. I just instead wonder if Blizzard are more keen on instead parsing out the content they would normally announce over a longer period to stymie the worst of what is likely to become a particularly awful post-expansion drought.


You can afterall only reveal the zones for the first time once, and by placing most of it on Blizzcon you do get a sizeable chunk of hype, but hype alone fades fairly quickly, so it might be in Blizzards best interest to space all the reveals out over a longer time.
Maybe the 10.0 trailer is revealed standalone sometime after 9.2, and then a couple weeks after we get the reveal trailer alongside a deep dive. Then a good few weeks after that we get a really beefy zone announcement.

Ah, now I get what you're trying to say. Drip-fed us with new information about the expansion (after the initial announcement & cinematic maybe) instead of giving us too much information too early while making us waiting longer for the next batch of info.

[Seasz]

I like the name "Fate of Eternity"

[Sondrelk]

Also, we are currently just taking it for granted that Shadowlands will end at 9.2, if it doesnt and we get a 9.3 then I doubt Blizzard is very keen on making that the big announcement worthy of Blizzcon. I think every WoW player even tangentially interested in Blizzcon is expecting an announcement for 10.0, and if 9.3 will be a thing then I doubt that said announcement could realistically be more than a barebones trailer and nothing more.

- - - Updated - - -

Ah, now I get what you're trying to say. Drip-fed us with new information about the expansion (after the initial announcement & cinematic maybe) instead of giving us too much information too early while making us waiting longer for the next batch of info.

Pretty much. I think Blizzard could get much more mileage out of cancelling Blizzconline seeing as it is a glorified announcement, just for several titles, and instead just make several smaller announcements that are beefier in total.

[Hyrja]

There won't be a 9.3 lol.
Blizzard wants to end SL asap.

[Sondrelk]

There won't be a 9.3 lol.
Blizzard wants to end SL asap.

We have no proof of that at all. We just assume that will be the case because many cnosider it the lesser evil of delaying 10.0 to 2023.

[Nyel]

We have no proof of that at all. We just assume that will be the case because many cnosider it the lesser evil of delaying 10.0 to 2023.

Delaying 10.0 to mid/late 2023. I think that's an imporant distinction. If there will be a delay, it won't just be to January or February. With 9.3 existing we're pretty much talking about a Q2-3/23 release window here.

[Varodoc]

There's no 9.3. And there was never planned to be a 9.3. Even without Covid or the Lawsuit, 9.2 was always going to be the final patch.

That's why you have Garrosh, Kel'Thuzad, Psychovanas, and Helya all dealt with in the same patch. The final patch is 9.2, taking place in the Sepulcher, and dealing with Bob the Janitor and Manduin.

Blizzard knew this was acceptable and not a repeat of WoD because what people somehow still haven't understood after 6 years is that patch 6.1 wasn't an actual patch, and would have been called 6.0.5 in any Post-WoD expansion. So effectively WoD only had 1 content patch, the Hellfire one, Patch 6.1.

And as a side note MoP also had only 2 patches with 2 raids, while the other 2 patches were just scenarios.

I simply take a deep breath, knowing that Shadowlands won't last 30 years. I have never felt so disconnected with the dogshit theme of an expansion before. So long and good riddance

[Sondrelk]

There's no 9.3. And there was never planned to be a 9.3. Even without Covid or the Lawsuit, 9.2 was always going to be the final patch.

That's why you have Garrosh, Kel'Thuzad, Psychovanas, and Helya all dealt with in the same patch. The final patch is 9.2, taking place in the Sepulcher, and dealing with Bob the Janitor and Manduin.

Blizzard knew this was acceptable and not a repeat of WoD because what people somehow still haven't understood after 6 years is that patch 6.1 wasn't an actual patch, and would have been called 6.0.5 in any Post-WoD expansion. So effectively WoD only had 1 content patch, the Hellfire one, Patch 6.1.

The X.2 patches are almost always something slightly offf-theme from the main plot, something which rarely has any difrect influence on the main plot so far. The only true exception to this that I can think of it 7.2 being on the Broken Shore.

8.2 was Naga instead of Faction war or N'zoth (yes I know they are somewhat linked).
5.2 was Mogu instead of Faction war
4.2 was Firelands instead of Deathwing or Twilights hammer
3.2 was Ulduar instead of Scourge.
WoD was cut short, but if based on the original plan then 6.2 would have likely been Shattrath, most likely Draenei cultists instead of Orcs.

If we get the full 3 major patch treatment then 9.2 will almost certainly follow the same general idea. Something only vaguely linked to the "main" plot that we get for variety in-between the main stuff. The fact that the plot as we know it is essentially done is exactly the same as previously. Before 4.2 we had already established footholds in Icecrown and defeat the Lich Kings main liutenants. At the end of 8.1 the Alliance was about to win decisively. In MoP the rebellion had pretty much already begun and reached its logical endpoint before the climax before the expansion essentially swerved a hard left into the Thunder King patch.

[Nathanyel]

There's no 9.3. And there was never planned to be a 9.3. Even without Covid or the Lawsuit, 9.2 was always going to be the final patch.

That's why you have Garrosh, Kel'Thuzad, Psychovanas, and Helya all dealt with in the same patch. [...]

And you know this was always planned this way since before Covid? It is obvious that 9.1 contains a lot of elements that would've been part of 9.2 without Covid.

[Xorzor]

Chinavision-Jizzard are going to screw over 10.0 just like they did Shadowlands. To believe or think otherwise is to ignore the lessons of history.

They never listen, and even if they did, they pick at it piece-meal, starting with what takes the least amount of effort to develop.

They may woke-ify the game so much that they modify character models to be hermaphrodites and use illogical gender-neutral pronouns. Then have both factions buddy up with no explanation and as if nothing ever happened over the past few in-universe decades.

[Gaidax]

What sabotage? Make it a pre-recorded stream and not something live, you could prevent every kind of negativity that way.

Then it's not BlizzCon.

BlizzCon was always about community and community events. Removing that makes it pointless.

Might as well not do it, which is what they did.

[Varodoc]

And you know this was always planned this way since before Covid? It is obvious that 9.1 contains a lot of elements that would've been part of 9.2 without Covid.

Yes, I know it.

And No, 9.1 doesn't contain any element that was meant for 9.2. 9.1 features an upgraded Maw, 9.2 will not feature the Maw in any way since the Janitor is finally free and can go wherever he want, so he's not going to stay in his prison. 9.1 features the Battle of Ardenweald while 9.2 is not going to feature any of the Shadowlands zones since again the Janitor is looking to unmake the Cosmos entirely. 9.1 features many upgrades the Covenants as well as Covenants quests in the Maw, which would never be featured in 9.2 since the Janitor now has all the sigils he needs and has no further interest for the Covenants.

[crusadernero]

And you know this was always planned this way since before Covid? It is obvious that 9.1 contains a lot of elements that would've been part of 9.2 without Covid.

With how 9.1 ended(the cinematic in raid), I cant see Blizzard make a 9.3. What would that even be?