Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Three Faced Goddess]

We’re only missing dragons as the major remaining “thing that needs an update “ and they are probably being bundled for another Dragon expansion (see: Cata 2). Besides Gnolls and Centaurs what old models are we really missing?

Quite a few actually. The lynxes in Quel'thalas, all the ancient saber and big cat models, skeletal/undead horses, undead birds, three eyed and crested basilisks, classic bats, normal owls, greater boars, felboars, etc. However, those you listed are some of the worst models remaining in game. Most racial mounts and older mounts could use an update as well.

[Hitei]

Quite a few actually. The lynxes in Quel'thalas, all the ancient saber and big cat models, skeletal/undead horses, undead birds, three eyed and crested basilisks, classic bats, normal owls, greater boars, felboars, etc. However, those you listed are some of the worst models remaining in game. Most racial mounts and older mounts could use an update as well.

Almost all of those are just slight modifications of existing updated models.

[ohwell]

Oh, sure, he did some bad stuff... but ultimately, he wasn't really doing a whole lot that was relevant to us. That was mostly Kael and some Vashj. Illidan just sat in his fortress in Shadowmoon and didn't do much of anything during our time in Outland.

So the question of "why did we kill him?" is perfectly valid. We had no actual reason to go after him.

Though i'm a little confused where you got this supposed confirmation that Illidan ordered the torture of the Netherdrakes. AFAIR, that was just the Dragonmaw acting on their own, and i can't seem to find any sources regarding your claim.

He LITERALLY appears at the end of the chain. You did next to no research. Illidan was most certainly the guiding force of the Dragonmaw there.

The Vashj and Kael stuff was retconned mostly in the book and a lot was originally Illidan ordering them etc. The book particularly changed the Shattrath siege to be Kael for example when originally it was Illidan who sent them.

Also a lot of SMV puts on full display why you kill him. He wasn't good from any manner of speaking and even the acts that he did claiming to be defending others from the Legion was really just him being scared shitless of KJ and needed to strike first.

[Three Faced Goddess]

They're still un-updated in game and should be replaced with the new ones. They're eyesores that shore the age of this game.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

He LITERALLY appears at the end of the chain. You did next to no research. Illidan was most certainly the guiding force of the Dragonmaw there.

The Vashj and Kael stuff was retconned mostly in the book and a lot was originally Illidan ordering them etc. The book particularly changed the Shattrath siege to be Kael for example when originally it was Illidan who sent them.

Also a lot of SMV puts on full display why you kill him. He wasn't good from any manner of speaking and even the acts that he did claiming to be defending others from the Legion was really just him being scared shitless of KJ and needed to strike first.

It was still weird and absurd going from a very anti hero to a villain(WCIII to WoW:BC)

[Ersula]

First One Death HQ does not have to equal Shadowlands. Azeroth is already implied to be A Zer(e)th and its in the middle of nowhere, not a magic plane.

Considering they said “hehe maybe we will see the titan afterlife ” Mortis may be death area of the Order realm, even.

Why the fuck would the Sepulcher (not the silverpine forest one, ironically) be on Azeroth? Even logistically speaking a magic button the First Ones built to reset the the world of the living would be about a million years older than Azeroth itself. It's just going to be some asteroid floating out in shadowlands-space like Korthia was.

And if you really want to call them "Order lands" we've already been there: It's The Seat of the Pantheon. The one thing Chronicles spelled out explicitly is the "Order" part of the cosmology chart is run by the Titan Pantheon, and that's their seat of power: some sofas floating out in space: They're not that special.

[TheFirstOnes]

Where?

/10 char

The Alleria/Sylvanas BFA comic talking about the Void being afraid of Death, and that Death is "the enemy of all" and "needs to be dealt with", the N'Zoth fight implying Sylvanas seeks to unleash a darkness even AZSHARA'S afraid of (This is another reason I find Zovaal to be > Sargeras) and N'Zoth's desperately tryna get us to join his cause so he could stop that "darkness", and the Void whispers implying that Death will bring about the Void's entrance to reality: "Five keys to open our way, five torches to light our path"

Zovaal has the 5 sigils of the Eternal Ones, and is using them to open the way to the Sepulcher of the First Ones in order to "remake" existence under his rule. This Sepulcher raid could lead into the Void Lords finally having the door they need to enter reality from.

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First One Death HQ does not have to equal Shadowlands. Azeroth is already implied to be A Zer(e)th and its in the middle of nowhere, not a magic plane.

Considering they said “hehe maybe we will see the titan afterlife ” Mortis may be death area of the Order realm, even.

Reminder: Zereth Mortis doesn't automatically have to mean "Death". Sure, its translation in many cases is "Cornerstone of Death", but that doesn't automatically mean it HAS to be related to Death. Hell, Zereth Mortis is simply called the REALM of the First Ones. It's not at all relegated to a singular cosmic power.

Also, just a quick reminder before I continue, Mortis from Star Wars exists, and that has like almost no real connection to Death as a whole: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Mortis

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Mortis is also located outside the Universe, and its day and night cycle represents the Light side of the Force, as well as the Dark side of the Force. Its rulers are the Mortis Gods, in which the Son and the Daughter represent Light and Dark, the 2 halves of the Force. Kinda funny, considering Life and Death are a key nature within this expansion. Btw, this also kinda aids my theory that we WILL see the Lifelands, even if for a small bit this expac.

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https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/The_Force The Force has like a similar nature to the Purpose also, or like the cycles that keep reach Cosmic Power and Realm in order.

"The Force was the energy field that bound the galaxy together. Thus, distance was nothing when compared to the Force, which connected life forms together across the galaxy. Additionally, it was believed nothing was impossible to the Force, being beyond the power of any man-made technique."

[Fahrad Wagner]

All this is evidence that giraffes are really good at hiding.

You really, really don't want to annoy the platypuses, when they get angry they make a wolverine seem like a lover's kiss.

I will reuse that last sentence extensively, thank you.

Lifelands is more likely to be a patch in this expansion than its own expansion. We are having Elune revealed here for the first time despite her not being a death god, and it bookends the initial death theme of Shadowlands (and we’ve run out of important realms within the Shadowlands: even Zovaal left). Also life and death working together to beat Zovaal fits the tone of the theme.

Zero chance they would do two near-identical cosmic expansions back to back.

I agree the Lifelands is more likely to be patch content, but I wouldn't rule it out as an expansion. Take the Broken Isles, a few years ago I would have been adamant it could not support a whole extension... and I was dead wrong. And cherry on the cake, that extension was good. Although it's a bit different, as the Broken Isles were an established place on Azeroth and well known from the players which is absolutely not the case of the Life realm.

Maybe Zereth Mortis is the raid, and the Lifelands are the new zone?

[Cosmic Janitor]

First One Death HQ does not have to equal Shadowlands. Azeroth is already implied to be A Zer(e)th and its in the middle of nowhere, not a magic plane.

Considering they said “hehe maybe we will see the titan afterlife ” Mortis may be death area of the Order realm, even.

I would think the first ones place to be outside of all the cosmic forces' domains. It would be more like the birthplace of the entire universe or something like that.

[EbaumsTipster]

Maybe Zereth Mortis is the raid, and the Lifelands are the new zone?

That’s what I think is the case. However ZM could the the (one) zone and Sepulcher could be the raid. I don’t the cat and bird build up to ZM though as we know that the first ones have a robotic and inorganic theme based on the raid boss and the geometry and magic crystal aesthetic. The pyramid in the boss room and all the sand also point to it being a desert world (which could be a hint to Time being involved, sands of time and all).


Considering we have had several desert zones relevant lately AS WELL as numerous “talk to robots” zones I don’t think it would be unique enough as its own area by itself. (NOTE: If they are going to confirm the First Ones to be order beings or the titans themselves this would make sense and the robotic first one stuff would be a foreshadowing that they are just more titanic constructs. The First One/Titan thing already has some foreshadowing with the domination runes sound at the Seat of the Pantheon)

Lifelands opens up further talking to Elune, getting clarification on Eonar and bringing in Anshe and the elements to give the Horde and Shamans some much needed love this expansion.

I would rank as most likely:
1) Lifelands zones, ZM raid
2) ZM zone, Sepulcher raid
3) Northrend zone, Sepulcher raid??? very unlikely but would work if the Sepulcher is secretly Ulduar

But I don’t think a carved out piece of Northrend will work.

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I would think the first ones place to be outside of all the cosmic forces' domains. It would be more like the birthplace of the entire universe or something like that.

Right. Hietei makes the argument that because it has Mortis in the name and is unlocked by the Eternal Ones that its in the Shadowlands, but I think it may be a clubhouse in the First One realm that’s all about the Shadowlands specifically. There would be a Life Zereth, Order Zereth, etc.

[Lahis]

3) Northrend zone, Sepulcher raid??? very unlikely but would work if the Sepulcher is secretly Ulduar

But I don’t think a carved out piece of Northrend will work.

What makes this option very plausible is the fact that recycling Icecrown/Stormpeaks for patch zone means Blizz will need to make less new content.

[EbaumsTipster]

What makes this option very plausible is the fact that recycling Icecrown/Stormpeaks for patch zone means Blizz will need to make less new content.

But then they need to figure out how to make Wrath not look like shit, and update tons of ancient old models. Kind of counter intuitive.

[TheFirstOnes]

I think y'all are overthinking it a bit.

[Lahis]

But then they need to figure out how to make Wrath not look like shit, and update tons of ancient old models. Kind of counter intuitive.

They didn't change anything on Uldum and Vale either. Just slapped some Dark Empire obelisks around.

Same thing works here. Just slap some Maw assets on Northrend and call it done.

[EbaumsTipster]

They didn't change anything on Uldum and Vale either. Just slapped some Dark Empire obelisks around.

Same thing works here. Just slap some Maw assets on Northrend and call it done.

The have never used Wrath or TBC assets for major permanent content areas though, not even once. Cata is the farthest back they will go as we see with Goblin and Worgen building reuses in Legion and BFA, and Cata zone reuse in BFA.

Wrath looks bad now and they wouldn’t have had the art team actively avoid making things for the patch unless they were court ordered to ignore SL entirely.

[Sondrelk]

They didn't change anything on Uldum and Vale either. Just slapped some Dark Empire obelisks around.

Same thing works here. Just slap some Maw assets on Northrend and call it done.

Darkshore showed that all you really need to make a zone look nice is change things like the grass textures, give a fancy new skybox, and then generally just go around and swap whatever assets you can with new ones.
That is essentialyl all they did in Darkshore. New grass textures and path textures, swap the old roadside lamps with the new ones from Legion, a stunning new skybox instead of the default, and finally have someone go around and swap the buildings for new ones as well as a few choice changes in general.
You don't need everything to be up to the highest standards. Just enough that it looks like a cohesive whole.

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The have never used Wrath or TBC assets for major permanent content areas though, not even once. Cata is the farthest back they will go as we see with Goblin and Worgen building reuses in Legion and BFA, and Cata zone reuse in BFA.

Wrath looks bad now and they wouldn’t have had the art team actively avoid making things for the patch unless they were court ordered to ignore SL entirely.

They wouldnt really need new WotLK HD assets. Better skyboxes, textures and generally more liberal use of whatever new assets they already have would do wonders to any zone.

[Makabreska]

They didn't change anything on Uldum and Vale either. Just slapped some Dark Empire obelisks around.

Same thing works here. Just slap some Maw assets on Northrend and call it done.

These places are not as old and not nearly as badly looking as Northrend.

[Fahrad Wagner]

These places are not as old and not nearly as badly looking as Northrend.

I think most zones in Northrend don't look as bad as the ones from Vanilla/TBC, and a texture swipe could do the trick.
I hope it's not what they have in mind, I love Northrend but I don't like those half-revamps or what they did with Uldum/Vale in 8.3.
People consider Kalimdor/EK cata zones, but the truth is many assets in those zones are still from Vanilla and outdated as fuck. Don't even get me started on Un'goro giant trees...
So if they were able to turn a zone like Darkshore (which apart from the Cata tweaks like the tornado and the small maelstrom was basically vanilla assets and textures) into something decent, they could do it for Northrend I think.

I guess we'll know soon enough!

[Makabreska]

I think most zones in Northrend don't look as bad as the ones from Vanilla/TBC, and a texture swipe could do the trick.
I hope it's not what they have in mind, I love Northrend but I don't like those half-revamps or what they did with Uldum/Vale in 8.3.
People consider Kalimdor/EK cata zones, but the truth is many assets in those zones are still from Vanilla and outdated as fuck. Don't even get me started on Un'goro giant trees...
So if they were able to turn a zone like Darkshore (which apart from the Cata tweaks like the tornado and the small maelstrom was basically vanilla assets and textures) into something decent, they could do it for Northrend I think.

I guess we'll know soon enough!

For me Northrend has too much of these cartoonish angles and architecture they stopped using later. It just screams outdated.

[Fahrad Wagner]

For me Northrend has too much of these cartoonish angles and architecture they stopped using later. It just screams outdated.

Yeah but that for example is a vanilla building. I'm not saying all Northrend buildings look great, many are outdated, but if we compare let's say the human inns in the Howling Fjord or Borean Tundra to the ones in the old world... they're much better. Same goes with Titan inspired buildings.

And even so, Blizzard could update those assets for a patch, like they did for the Darkshore warfront, but in this case we wouldn't be in an Uldum/Vale scenario anymore I guess. I just hope they don't touch Northrend, and we eventually go back there later in the future for a full Nerubian expansion, rediscovering a melted down version of the Northrend we knew.