Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Wangming]

7 months from SL release is late June, not April. Which is still most likely release window for 9.1.


I meant seven months from next november. A raid patch usually lasts 6-7 months so very likely not even 9.2 will be out till late november this year.
Imo next Blizzcon will be Blizzcon '22, not only earlier dates are still not 100% safe, but also there is a chance it will contain something new. Right now just more news about DIV/OV2 isn't enough, also looks like remaster well is empty (beside next wow classic expacs).

If 10.0 will be just like any other expansion, they could just make live event whenever they want, let's say shortly after launch of last patch PTR (which could be around spring '22). SL isn't hated expansion, as long as they keep pumping informations and patches (so NOT like right now), people won't raise pitchforks.

10.0 could be also huge revamp, some future expansion will be that anyway. I don't think anyone could have problem if Blizzard put message "hey, next expansion will be something different and is still far away, but we will fill that time with SL and Classic content (including Wrath)".

I know it's wild guess 10.0 could be something bigger, but I don't think it's crazy to expect that ONE of future expansions will be like that.

Well a revamp is long overdue and 10.0 would be a good occasion for it.

A few things to note: With one exception, expansions were announced at BlizzCon. Ever since Pandaria the last patch was at least announced, but more often than not even released before the expansion announcement (so right at the time the storiest started to connect). SL will be 24 months old in 22 november. No expansion lasted more than 27 months. No expansion had a shorter beta phase than 3 months. The shortest final raid tier was 7 months.

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Also, the Jailer’s plot doesn’t end with him being destroyed. If the narrative is true, then the guy essentially started the entire cosmic war. Meaning he has influence over the battle between Light and Void.

That's not at all what you claimed, though. There's still plenty of story being told here, we're not just waltzing up to him and bitchslapping him into submission out of nowhere.

Are you sure you are arguing against what you think you are arguing against?

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Deathwing, N'zoth, Azshara and Xavius say hello. Cosmic entities with decades of lore buildup can be quickly wrapped up in a Raid.

Is what you said and Deathwing had a few patches before we had to deal with him. N'zoth was in a full expansion as well and Azshara wasn't "dead" by the end of BFA, she's alive and well. Why you even mentioned her...is just weird. Xavius since he was shown to be in Legion as a bit of a distraction, the EN wasn't supposed to be when Legion was announced a big plot thread, it got resolved quick and was never implied to be the expansion threat -.-

Its like you are so absurdly confident that the Jailer's fate is soon yet there's nothing to say that in 8.1 right now.

[huth]

Are you sure you are arguing against what you think you are arguing against?

Yes, but apparently it's going way over your head.

[Wangming]

Its like you are so absurdly confident that the Jailer's fate is soon yet there's nothing to say that in 8.1 right now.

8.1 was Zuldazar.

And no matter how much you wish it otherwise, the story of the Jailer will end when we kill him, no matter how many plans he has. The most he can hope for is to kickstart the next expansion, like Sargeras did with his sword.

[Makabreska]

8.1 was Zuldazar.

And no matter how much you wish it otherwise, the story of the Jailer will end when we kill him, no matter how many plans he has. The most he can hope for is to kickstart the next expansion, like Sargeras did with his sword.

I mean, pretty much every character story ends with his death. Question is WHEN that death will come. And sometimes that story end means little, when it smoothly transitions and develops in the next xpac. Like with example Archibald in WoD.

And SL actually shows us how death itself can be inconclusive.

[Wangming]

I mean, pretty much every character story ends with his death. Question is WHEN that death will come. And sometimes that story end means little, when it smoothly transitions and develops in the next xpac. Like with example Archibald in WoD.

And SL actually shows us how death itself can be inconclusive.

Yes, death is merely a setback, so to speak.

[Tiradon]

8.1 was Zuldazar.

And no matter how much you wish it otherwise, the story of the Jailer will end when we kill him, no matter how many plans he has. The most he can hope for is to kickstart the next expansion, like Sargeras did with his sword.

I keep thinking this is gonna end at Azeroth with all the conversation regarding the world soul

[Dracullus]

I keep thinking this is gonna end at Azeroth with all the conversation regarding the world soul

Me too, either with Icecrown reused as 9.3 zone or last part of raid will be Jailer crossing to Azeroth.

[Wangming]

I keep thinking this is gonna end at Azeroth with all the conversation regarding the world soul

Me too, either with Icecrown reused as 9.3 zone or last part of raid will be Jailer crossing to Azeroth.

That is actually pretty likely. They have to make the Jailer a threat to the people on the mortal realm not just this death god with a grudge against other death gods. Also there has to be something that ties SL to the next expansion. A trip to Azeroth would provide both.

And besides the final raid can't be another few floors of Thorghast. Icecrown is pretty likely. It IS the most obvious choice.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Me too, either with Icecrown reused as 9.3 zone or last part of raid will be Jailer crossing to Azeroth.

Possible but I prefer them to do a bit more for the last entanglement with the Jailer. The reusing of zones that is.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

That is actually pretty likely. They have to make the Jailer a threat to the people on the mortal realm not just this death god with a grudge against other death gods. Also there has to be something that ties SL to the next expansion. A trip to Azeroth would provide both.

And besides the final raid can't be another few floors of Thorghast. Icecrown is pretty likely. It IS the most obvious choice.

Maybe we'll finally get that Silithus/Azeroth/Sword raid that we've known was coming since the end of Legion.

[Dracullus]

Possible but I prefer them to do a bit more for the last entanglement with the Jailer. The reusing of zones that is.

Sure, we all want new stuff. But full new zone for last patch is not that often. We had it in WoD (that had no X.3 and 14 month drought) and of course Legion (but remember it also came year before BfA - raid was released later and more important 7.2 had reused zone this time).

(And Timeless Isle and Qual'Danas, but these were just small quest hubs with flat terrain, imo more work was put into 8.3 Uldum/Vale)

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Sure, we all want new stuff. But full new zone for last patch is not that often. We had it in WoD (that had no X.3 and 14 month drought) and of course Legion (but remember it also came year before BfA - raid was released later and more important 7.2 had reused zone this time).

(And Timeless Isle and Qual'Danas, but these were just small quest hubs with flat terrain, imo more work was put into 8.3 Uldum/Vale)

I know, I still prefer it, in all honesty. While we're talking about it, I think its possible(I'll totally be ok with being wrong) that any Lich King theme/helm of domination but not be a thing at the end of this. I always imagined that Bolvar would want the helm restored(To help fix the little rift above Icecrown) and well said helm wouldn't be prone to the Jailer's influence. I dunno how things are gonna progress storywise.

If I recall in one interview someone at Blizz mentioned something about environment change after the raid almost hinting SOMETHING visually changes after the SoD raid.

[TheFirstOnes]

I think 9.3 will have a zone at the in between or something like that. Maybe not tho? Idfk.

I’m still sticking with my 9.2 stuff, however

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I know, I still prefer it, in all honesty. While we're talking about it, I think its possible(I'll totally be ok with being wrong) that any Lich King theme/helm of domination but not be a thing at the end of this. I always imagined that Bolvar would want the helm restored(To help fix the little rift above Icecrown) and well said helm wouldn't be prone to the Jailer's influence. I dunno how things are gonna progress storywise.

If I recall in one interview someone at Blizz mentioned something about environment change after the raid almost hinting SOMETHING visually changes after the SoD raid.

My assumption of the skybox change: The Maw is so big, it clouds Oribos in red and black, and it’s visible among the covenant zones!

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Deathwing, N'zoth, Azshara and Xavius say hello. Cosmic entities with decades of lore buildup can be quickly wrapped up in a Raid.

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Another thing occured to me. BlizzCon. While patterns can always change so far we always had a WoW expansion every second BlizzCon and the last one had none so the next one should logically speaking include an expansion. Question is, when will we get the next one? Is it going to be this november as usual? Or february again. Or do they think BlizzConline was enough for 2021 and we will have another as late as 2022 November?

Even if we get 9.1 on the PTR today and finish testing in a month that will be late April for release. 7 months from november, so it is a tight schedule if they want to squeeze in another major content patch between 9.1 and BlizzCon.

If they go with February that gives them 10 months. More than enough for 9.2 but not 9.3

2022 November would be way too late for an announcement as that would be 24 months into the expansion.

So they have to announce the new expansion around 9.2

Deathwing was the main antagonist of Cata. He was being built up as the final boss since the start of 4.0. N’Zoth is the same way, but with BFA (He was also one of the main antagonists during Cata). And regarding Azshara and Xavius: They weren’t the main antagonists of their respective expansion.

Zovaal is the main antagonist of SL, the same way Sargeras was the main antagonist of Legion, or how the Void Lords would be the potential main antagonists of the Light/Shadow expac.

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Also, every person you mentioned in that list wasn’t a cosmic deity. They were all servants or mere playthings of the Void, in which the cosmic deities of that power are the Void Lords.

[Wangming]

Deathwing was the main antagonist of Cata. He was being built up as the final boss since the start of 4.0. N’Zoth is the same way, but with BFA (He was also one of the main antagonists during Cata). And regarding Azshara and Xavius: They weren’t the main antagonists of their respective expansion.

Zovaal is the main antagonist of SL, the same way Sargeras was the main antagonist of Legion, or how the Void Lords would be the potential main antagonists of the Light/Shadow expac.

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Also, every person you mentioned in that list wasn’t a cosmic deity. They were all servants or mere playthings of the Void, in which the cosmic deities of that power are the Void Lords.

No they weren't. But they were very important lore figures and in the case of Azshara, her appearance was wished for since pretty much TFT. Her cameo in Cata doesn't really count. I don't know how you would want Zovaal's plot to stay relevant after he dies, but Blizzard really likes wrapping up things quickly. SL is a good way to revisit some of those threads, However in the case of Zovaal I would say he would go to the even Shadower Lands or whatever. No idea how dead an Eternal One can be, but Blizz doesn't seem intent on keeping villains around for long. The only end boss who didn't die during the final fight was Garrosh and he met a rather unceremonius death less than half an expansion later. Of course patterns can always change, but I wouldn't bet on it.

Frankly as boring as it might sound on paper, 10.0 should be about consolidation and rediscovery. So much has changed in the past expansions that the world ingame does not reflect. Plus Fighting was pretty much constant from the Cataclysm till the defeat of N'zoth. Another war would obliterate any willing suspension of disbelief. And a low key expansion like that would have little room for cosmic death monsters.

[huth]

I don't know how you would want Zovaal's plot to stay relevant after he dies, but Blizzard really likes wrapping up things quickly.

You just gave 4 examples of plots that were anything but wrapped up quickly.
Azshara had been ongoing for years and multiple expansions. Deathwing had an entire expansion revolving around him. Xavius had an entire zone, 5 man and raid revolving around him despite being a minor player at best. N'zoth had been an ongoing threat since Cata.

[TheFirstOnes]

No they weren't. But they were very important lore figures and in the case of Azshara, her appearance was wished for since pretty much TFT. Her cameo in Cata doesn't really count. I don't know how you would want Zovaal's plot to stay relevant after he dies, but Blizzard really likes wrapping up things quickly. SL is a good way to revisit some of those threads, However in the case of Zovaal I would say he would go to the even Shadower Lands or whatever. No idea how dead an Eternal One can be, but Blizz doesn't seem intent on keeping villains around for long. The only end boss who didn't die during the final fight was Garrosh and he met a rather unceremonius death less than half an expansion later. Of course patterns can always change, but I wouldn't bet on it.

Frankly as boring as it might sound on paper, 10.0 should be about consolidation and rediscovery. So much has changed in the past expansions that the world ingame does not reflect. Plus Fighting was pretty much constant from the Cataclysm till the defeat of N'zoth. Another war would obliterate any willing suspension of disbelief. And a low key expansion like that would have little room for cosmic death monsters.

I would imagine 10.0 be about the dragon isles, and the battle with Light and Shadow. Also, while Zovaal himself would be gone (there is no death realm for the Pantheon of Death or Mortals after the Shadowlands), his plotline would still continue in that he and the Dreadlords (presumably) caused the Cosmic War to begin with. So long as that remains, Zovaal’s influence will forever occur.

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You just gave 4 examples of plots that were anything but wrapped up quickly.
Azshara had been ongoing for years and multiple expansions. Deathwing had an entire expansion revolving around him. Xavius had an entire zone, 5 man and raid revolving around him despite being a minor player at best. N'zoth had been an ongoing threat since Cata.

Azshara’s story is still goin btw. Same with N’Zoth’s.

[Cosmic Janitor]

I would imagine 10.0 be about the dragon isles, and the battle with Light and Shadow. Also, while Zovaal himself would be gone (there is no death realm for the Pantheon of Death or Mortals after the Shadowlands), his plotline would still continue in that he and the Dreadlords (presumably) caused the Cosmic War to begin with. So long as that remains, Zovaal’s influence will forever occur.

We don't even know if they can actually die. Denathrius had to be sealed into a sword and even then he still can exert his will through other means during the campain. Maybe they are immortal unless their realm gets destroyed, maybe killing them destroys their realm. They certainly couldn't be arsed to kill him back then either and only imprisoned him. We just don't know anything concrete yet, only that he supposedly let the Archon live when he could have easily killed her with his Anduin sock-puppet.

Edit: Also can be stop pretending cata revolved around deathwing? He was infamously one of the least present villains in WoW, especially after Wrath. He pretty much only roasted newbies while leveling until they finally released DS. The whole expansion was kicked off by him, but all we did during most of it was fight elementals and twilight cultists, DW itself was just an unwitting pawn with no screen presence.

[TheFirstOnes]

We don't even know if they can actually die. Denathrius had to be sealed into a sword and even then he still can exert his will through other means during the campain. Maybe they are immortal unless their realm gets destroyed, maybe killing them destroys their realm. They certainly couldn't be arsed to kill him back then either and only imprisoned him. We just don't know anything concrete yet, only that he supposedly let the Archon live when he could have easily killed her with his Anduin sock-puppet.

It’s not that they can’t die. Hell, Devos was legit tryna kill the Archon, and it’s stated that the Jailer’s goal was to kill the Arbiter. And the Arbiter is also an Eternal One. It’s just that the members respective realms get fucked in the process, unless there is a successor, or a new leader in place/entrusted upon before they die (I think).

The strength of the realms also connect to the strength of the Eternal One. It’s why the Jailer’s power grows infinitely while new souls go to the Maw

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Also, I doubt the Jailer wants to kill the Archon. He probably wants to torture her or fuck with her tbh. Pretty sure torturing the Eternal Ones as payback for what he’s gone through is exactly what the Jailer wants.

[razorpax]

Deathwing, N'zoth, Azshara and Xavius say hello. Cosmic entities with decades of lore buildup can be quickly wrapped up in a Raid.

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Another thing occured to me. BlizzCon. While patterns can always change so far we always had a WoW expansion every second BlizzCon and the last one had none so the next one should logically speaking include an expansion. Question is, when will we get the next one? Is it going to be this november as usual? Or february again. Or do they think BlizzConline was enough for 2021 and we will have another as late as 2022 November?

Even if we get 9.1 on the PTR today and finish testing in a month that will be late April for release. 7 months from november, so it is a tight schedule if they want to squeeze in another major content patch between 9.1 and BlizzCon.

If they go with February that gives them 10 months. More than enough for 9.2 but not 9.3

2022 November would be way too late for an announcement as that would be 24 months into the expansion.

So they have to announce the new expansion around 9.2

Blizzard could announce an expansion in the middle of next year

They are likely using the delays and everything to their advantage to lower end of expansion drought

Let’s also keep in mind Late May is the 7th month mark