Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

I mean the game is doomed anyways. Every idea for the next expansion are either A) Unrealistic due to the bad production pipeline B) Unrealistic timeframe for development which means the same exact situation as Shadowlands C) Every Expansion Idea is boring or just so tone deaf when people just want simple stories on Azeroth and instead people are going for the jugular with either Void / Light / Dragons. D) People only want Light because they want a Draenei Female Villain who again is poorly written and clearly only going to be utilized for her sex appeal.

Not to speak of the fact that the only scenario that satisfies Shadowlands writing at this point is to literally reset the entire Universe either by Sylvanas or Zovaals hand and end up on a new Azeroth. Which again this is so unlikely to happen that it means we're stuck with old Azeroth clusterfuckery where we have every cosmic force wanting to steal the World Soul and also Azeroth plot.

Which again, remember that the Narrative Team can't even write 1 character well and you want them to deal with the entire planet of Azeroth + Cosmic Forces invading it. Good luck is all I say.

We don't only have a Systemic Iceberg problem anymore. The Narrative literally is completely disheveled coming out of this expansion if it takes the easy way out.

[Dracullus]

This is what I've heard from the pvp community as well, probably because it's not like Legion where it was more equal.

Wait a second, isn't this exactly what PVP community was asking for? Both vendors and removing scaling?

[therumblings]

Wait a second, isn't this exactly what PVP community was asking for? Both vendors and removing scaling?

There seems to be a tug of war between both sides in the pvp community, everyone always complains about both systems.

[Azxza]

Yes, what a genius idea! Blizzard and every gaming company should rewrite their whole games every time forums are filled with posts calling their content "trash". Let's ignore people who like it, they would spam forums as well if they truly like it, RIGHT? Who cares about sales.

I didn't say all that. WoW has a problem with people getting sick of its content just a few weeks after the latest patch is out. That to me screams of a wide ranging problem regarding very low quality content

Other MMOs have content so high quality and well received that the playerbase is happy to run said content over and over again, rather than just whatever content the newest patch just dropped.

[Dracullus]

There seems to be a tug of war between both sides in the pvp community, everyone always complains about both systems.

Sounds like eternal struggle of grind/no grind or flying/no flying parties in rest of the game.

Other MMOs have content so high quality and well received that the playerbase is happy to run said content over and over again, rather than just whatever content the newest patch just dropped.

For sure it's not case of people playing constantly one MMO for 15 years and then discovering another.

[Makabreska]

Over emphasis on m+, dungeons aren't unique, just multi path designs, little mob difference, generic packs everywhere, race race race, skip this skip that, boring open areas, a lot of dungeons are just instanced versions of world areas. They've been dumbed down, lack exploration, lack depth, they aren't difficult, it's only about beating a timer.

Since when multi-pathing is bad? You got several paths to pick.

I see plenty of mob difference. We have priority targets, HP diffs, must have interrupts, separate-this-mob from rest, stack/spread etc. And not to even mention affixes that mix things up.

Race and skipping - people always wanted to do content efficiently, and there always was and will be a meta regarding pathing and skips.

Open dungeons - out of five open dungeons only Mists and Halls were using the actual zones you could go to outside of an instance. I always preferred dungeons to be in dungeon, but I don't see this issue here.

What kind of dumbing down and exploration you look for? You just said you didn't like multi-pathing. And honestly, who goes to dungeon to explore it after like 10+ runs? And difficulty is a moot point, when you have so many scalings. What is easy for you, is hard for others.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

Also again people have this weird way of looking at things. Retail WoW will exist for decades since boxes will still sell.

The only problem will be that the content from each new box that you purchase will probably feature less and less content. But it will not be completely obvious to the normal consumer.

[Seasz]

Pvp engagement has seen its highest activity in several expansions. Said by Blizzard themselves.

Regarding its model I also wasn't a fan of the "fast paced" one shot mode. But people overall seemed to love it, and it was especially better received than the templates that Legion brought. In fact I remeber how most pvpers used to complain about how shit that system was because it completely removed the RPG aspect of wow pvp. Personally it was my favorite model of pvp ever (and class balance) but Blizz had to remove it because of how poorly received it was.

[GR8GODZILLAGOD]

Over emphasis on m+, dungeons aren't unique, just multi path designs, little mob difference, generic packs everywhere, race race race, skip this skip that, boring open areas, a lot of dungeons are just instanced versions of world areas. They've been dumbed down, lack exploration, lack depth, they aren't difficult, it's only about beating a timer.

The racing and skipping is more of a problem with M+ as a system, rather than the dungeon designs themselves. I also don't really recall dungeons have much exploration at all in the game in the past they've always been pretty on rails.

[Osmeric]

Lmao not when PvP is by far the best received since MoP

Not if you're a casual PvPer.

[Azxza]

Sounds like eternal struggle of grind/no grind or flying/no flying parties in rest of the game.



For sure it's not case of people playing constantly one MMO for 15 years and then discovering another.

This other MMO has been running for 11 years and people still happily do all of the ancient content in the game.

[Dracullus]

Also again people have this weird way of looking at things. Retail WoW will exist for decades since boxes will still sell.

The only problem will be that the content from each new box that you purchase will probably feature less and less content. But it will not be completely obvious to the normal consumer.

I heard this in the past when people compared numbers of dungeons or zones in MoP/WoD to TBC/Wrath, completely ignoring quality change (complexity of fights, art, zones not being wastelands, etc.). Then Legion/BfA were significantly bigger than MoP/WoD. SL is smaller than BfA/Legion (only with quests/zones/dungeons and likely raids - but not cosmetics), but there is no trend.

[TheFirstOnes]

I don’t think any of you guys actually know wtf the Devs are doing…

Why are y’all assuming production time and whatnots going to be different or the same?

[Azxza]

Pvp engagement has seen its highest activity in several expansions. Said by Blizzard themselves.

Regarding its model I also wasn't a fan of the "fast paced" one shot mode. But people overall seemed to love it, and it was especially better received than the templates that Legion brought. In fact I remeber how most pvpers used to complain about how shit that system was. personally it was my favorite model of pvp ever (and class balance) but Blizz had to remove it because of how poorly received it was.

When did they say this? Because PvP is so dead that you will run into the same people even at the lowest level of rated, where the most players should be. PvP is so dead that regularly the only groups you'll find in the finder are a handful of boosters

[GR8GODZILLAGOD]

Pvp engagement has seen its highest activity in several expansions. Said by Blizzard themselves.

Wasn't that at the beginning of the expansion? When getting armor upgrades via PvP was more viable than PvE?

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

I don’t think any of you guys actually know wtf the Devs are doing…

Why are y’all assuming production time and whatnots going to be different or the same?

Because we know how this works.

Like come on, do you really believe that after Jen O'neal left that they will ever get their pipeline working?

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I don’t think any of you guys actually know wtf the Devs are doing…

Why are y’all assuming production time and whatnots going to be different or the same?

Cause they know better or thats the logic I gather from.

I heard this in the past when people compared numbers of dungeons or zones in MoP/WoD to TBC/Wrath, completely ignoring quality change (complexity of fights, art, zones not being wastelands, etc.). Then Legion/BfA were significantly bigger than MoP/WoD. SL is smaller than BfA/Legion (only with quests/zones/dungeons and likely raids - but not cosmetics), but there is no trend.

While probably correct, I don't think anything you say will matter to them.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

https://twitter.com/JeffAHamilton/st...60251261210625

That's a wrap folks, see you in 11.0.

[Hitei]

Hard disagree there. WC3’s story had consistent characters and logical progression. I can’t say the same for many of WoW’s stories.

Lol? Are we talking about the same WC3? The one where Tyrande hates orcs for killing Cenarius, and then slaughters a whole group of her own people and a son of cenarius just following Malfurion's orders because she wants to break Illidan out of prison? The one where Archimonde casually draws a single rune and destroys a sand castle to absolute decimate the greatest magical city on the planet--but then for some reason has to slowly fight with the Legion forces up the slopes of Hyjal and is beaten by blowing one horn that summons a bunch of wisps? The one where the dreadlords weirdly serve and respect the Lich King even though they are supposed to be in charge and for some reason Arthas has to jump through a million hoops to bring back Kel'Thuzad, because apparently bringing back a single person is the most complicated thing imaginable even though the Scourge forces do it constantly, and he especially really needs to go steal a special urn from the paladins because Kel'Thuzad's remains """won't survive the trip""" even though he's literally a skeletal lich when brought back--because that's not the most contrived excuse imaginable to have him face off against Uther; and the most effective way of taking an urn to a specific place was to march with an entire army and wage war against the Kingdom of Quel'thalas?

The one where all it takes for Kel'Thuzad to summon Archimonde is the knowledge of how to do the ritual, but for some reason Archimonde's first move isn't to just go ahead and have KT summon Kil'jaeden as well (or do it himself)? And where Illidan's big brain strategy is to hide from the Legion on the world that has been completely and totally conquered by them? Where for some reason Azshara and the Naga's plan is for Illidan, of all people, to somehow lead them into ruling the world again? And where the dreadlords are supposed to be cunning strategists who know everything that is going on and are manipulating a lot of people, but for some reason they keep constantly getting surprised and stabbed in the back?

WC3's story was not logical in the slightest and it's only character consistency comes from 95% of the characters getting so little story time that there's nothing to be consistent about. Wow's storytelling is at least some times logical and the characters are about the same consistency.

[GR8GODZILLAGOD]

Lol? Are we talking about the same WC3? The one where Tyrande hates orcs for killing Cenarius, and then slaughters a whole group of her own people and a son of cenarius just following Malfurion's orders because she wants to break Illidan out of prison? The one where Archimonde casually draws a single rune and destroys a sand castle to absolute decimate the greatest magical city on the planet--but then for some reason has to slowly fight with the Legion forces up the slopes of Hyjal and is beaten by blowing one horn that summons a bunch of wisps? The one where the dreadlords weirdly serve and respect the Lich King even though they are supposed to be in charge and for some reason Arthas has to jump through a million hoops to bring back Kel'Thuzad, because apparently bringing back a single person is the most complicated thing imaginable even though the Scourge forces do it constantly, and he especially really needs to go steal a special urn from the paladins because Kel'Thuzad's remains """won't survive the trip""" even though he's literally a skeletal lich when brought back--because that's not the most contrived excuse imaginable to have him face off against Uther; and the most effective way of taking an urn to a specific place was to march with an entire army and wage war against the Kingdom of Quel'thalas?

The one where all it takes for Kel'Thuzad to summon Archimonde is the knowledge of how to do the ritual, but for some reason Archimonde's first move isn't to just go ahead and have KT summon Kil'jaeden as well (or do it himself)? And where Illidan's big brain strategy is to hide from the Legion on the world that has been completely and totally conquered by them? Where for some reason Azshara and the Naga's plan is for Illidan, of all people, to somehow lead them into ruling the world again? And where the dreadlords are supposed to be cunning strategists who know everything that is going on and are manipulating a lot of people, but for some reason they keep constantly getting surprised and stabbed in the back?

WC3's story was not logical in the slightest and it's only character consistency comes from 95% of the characters getting so little story time that there's nothing to be consistent about. Wow's storytelling

Well... Yeah I've no counter to that.